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Home Made Ice Cream (2002–2012)


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#271 weinoo

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:47 PM

Personally I find rather rich ice creams easier to get smooth than sorbets, so I wouldn't recommend moving to a sorbet mixture if you are having trouble with ice crystals. The extra thickness and fat in ice cream, especially a custard-based one, makes it easier to keep things smooth.

I was focusing more on the effort and cost of making the base, which is fairly formulaic for sorbets. That, and the fact that I find them tastier and more refreshing than rich ice creams.
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#272 Paul Stanley

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:57 PM


Personally I find rather rich ice creams easier to get smooth than sorbets, so I wouldn't recommend moving to a sorbet mixture if you are having trouble with ice crystals. The extra thickness and fat in ice cream, especially a custard-based one, makes it easier to keep things smooth.

I was focusing more on the effort and cost of making the base, which is fairly formulaic for sorbets. That, and the fact that I find them tastier and more refreshing than rich ice creams.


Ah, true, on all counts! But I do find them harder to get smooth without ice crystals, so if that's the immediate problem ...

#273 Darienne

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 02:33 PM

I've looked up the recipe in my little manual and it's rather poorly written. It says nothing about chilling the mixture before pouring it into the Cuisinart bowl. That by itself would explain the problem.

I always make certain the container is frozen solid. I also often put the ice cream base in the freezer for 1/2 hour or even an hour in the summer. And I have also tied onto the outside of the Cuisinart housing two of those athletic injury ice bags to make sure the entire thing stays cold enough during the machine process.

Better to ask some of the eGullet experienced ice cream makers for recipes instead of using the Cuisinart ones.

However, as noted, even abysmal failures taste delicious!

Good luck! :smile:
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#274 djyee100

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 05:27 PM

Wow, Darienne, the manual doesn't say to chill the ice cream base? There must be lots of disappointed new owners of that ice cream maker.

RobertM, I may be repeating some points from above, but this is what I've learned about making ice cream with a freezer bowl unit:

- I make the ice cream base the night before, and chill it overnight. The freezer bowl chills at least overnight. I've gotten in the habit of keeping the freezer bowl in the freezer at all times. Then I never have to think about it.

- I freeze the dasher with the freezer bowl and I've noticed my ice cream freezes faster.

- If the recipe calls for add-ins, like nuts or chocolate chips to be added to the frozen ice cream, I chill those ingredients too.

- On hot days, I turn on the air conditioner while the ice cream is churning. I've noticed a very warm room will inhibit freezing the ice cream.

- I chill the container in which I pack the ice cream for the freezer. It doesn't take long--I put the container in the freezer while the ice cream is churning. That way no ice cream melts against the sides of the container to later form those pesky ice crystals.

A couple years ago, while answering another query on EGullet, I posted my favorite strawberry ice cream recipe, my adaptation from Alice Waters' Art of Simple Food. It's a custard-based ice cream, & sometimes people don't want to cook a custard. But if you do, here's the link to that message board. See my post #4, dated 24 October 2008.
http://forums.egulle...ruit-ice-cream/

#275 Darienne

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 05:38 PM

After reading djyee100's post, I started to feel a tad uneasy about my remarks and went back again to re-read the recipe.

OK. To be fair the 'Preparation' lines at the top of the recipe call for :"5 - 10 minutes, plus 2 hours for the strawberries to macerate. 20-25 minutes chilling time; optional 2 hours to ripen." I didn't notice that the first time around because I went straight to the direction section, which does not mention the chilling time at all and might well be confused with the prescribed 20-25 minutes in the machine. At best...just not well done at all on the part of the Cuisinart folks, particularly considering that inexperienced ice cream makers are very likely to be the purchasers of this unit.

I know I was. I knew nothing about making ice cream. Made one recipe from the book and then switched to pestering eGullet folks for help and recipes. :raz: It worked!
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#276 Marmish

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 06:03 PM

Churn longer than you think it needs. I read somewhere the overrun takes place mostly in the last minutes of churning. I started letting my ice creams churn longer and they improved. Ditto on keeping the canister and dasher in the freezer and prefreezing the container you are putting it into.

#277 djyee100

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:36 PM

To be fair the 'Preparation' lines at the top of the recipe call for :"5 - 10 minutes, plus 2 hours for the strawberries to macerate. 20-25 minutes chilling time; optional 2 hours to ripen."


Is this the recipe? Sounds like it.

http://www.cuisinart...esserts/96.html

Darienne, I think your first impression is correct. The recipe doesn't clearly tell you to chill the mixture in the fridge, and it should. A line is missing from the body of the instructions. The Preparation notes at the beginning of the recipe are only a synopsis. It's not supposed to substitute for the instructions. Notice how the Preparation notes are missing from the online version.

Unless, of course, Cuisinart thinks that a mixture of strawberries at room temp, plus milk, sugar, and cream that have been warmed by beating with a mixer can still be frozen in this maker. I've never encountered a freezer container type maker that could do that--not without thoroughly chilling the ice cream base first. I would expect results like the OP's with this recipe.

#278 Darienne

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:30 AM


To be fair the 'Preparation' lines at the top of the recipe call for :"5 - 10 minutes, plus 2 hours for the strawberries to macerate. 20-25 minutes chilling time; optional 2 hours to ripen."


Is this the recipe? Sounds like it.

http://www.cuisinart...esserts/96.html

Darienne, I think your first impression is correct. The recipe doesn't clearly tell you to chill the mixture in the fridge, and it should. A line is missing from the body of the instructions. The Preparation notes at the beginning of the recipe are only a synopsis. It's not supposed to substitute for the instructions. Notice how the Preparation notes are missing from the online version.

Unless, of course, Cuisinart thinks that a mixture of strawberries at room temp, plus milk, sugar, and cream that have been warmed by beating with a mixer can still be frozen in this maker. I've never encountered a freezer container type maker that could do that--not without thoroughly chilling the ice cream base first. I would expect results like the OP's with this recipe.

Can you believe it? The online version is even worse than the printed manual's version. As I said...I never bothered with any recipes at all after making ice cream once. My first 'real' recipe was Alton Brown's Seriously Vanilla Ice Cream which is online...and I never looked back.
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#279 weinoo

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:31 AM

I really think, and I'm sure the ice cream topics agree, that overnight chilling of the base makes for a better end product.
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#280 Darienne

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:33 AM

Churn longer than you think it needs. I read somewhere the overrun takes place mostly in the last minutes of churning. I started letting my ice creams churn longer and they improved. Ditto on keeping the canister and dasher in the freezer and prefreezing the container you are putting it into.

Good points Marmish. I would add as a proviso to beginners to make sure that the mixture is not frozen to the sides of the cannister while this extra churning is taking place.

I don't know about the overrun time frame. I'll google it and see what I can find. I have seldom found the churning takes as long as the manual calls for...but then I always put my base into the freezer for a while before churning it. We live in a century farmhouse with no A/C in the kitchen, in the great frozen north's version of summer: hot and extremely humid. I think the humidity does us in.
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#281 RobertM

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:54 AM

Everyone - thank you SO MUCH for your responses, we are going to reconfigure our process and make another batch this weekend - in fact, the freezer already has the unit in it, so, unless there is a major power outage, that thing will be COLD....
THANK YOU ALL

#282 Rick Mogstad

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:51 AM

A couple things I have learned in my first couple of batches of ice cream (just bought the ice cream maker attachment, so I am by no means an expert).

-Turn your freezer as cold as it will go, especially if you are using the one attached to your refrigerator.
-Chill the base thoroughly before churning, even if the book says "chill to room temperature or a little cooler"
-If you add room temperature sugared strawberries to what appears to be nicely setting up strawberry ice cream, it will turn into frozen strawberry soup in mere minutes. This is delicious, and on top of it can be re-churned into delicious strawberry ice cream the next day, after re-freezing the bowl.
-It's hard to eat a reasonable amount of ice cream when it tastes this good.

-Rick

#283 jayhay

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 02:29 PM

I've found adding alcohol to the base mixture helps keep ice crystals from forming. In the highly recommended book THE PERFECT SCOOP, David Lebovitz advises 3 tablespoons of vodka, rum, etc. to one quart of custard or sorbet, etc. to keep the mixture from freezing too hard.

#284 paulraphael

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:23 PM

All good advice. A few more thoughts:

-check your freezer temperature, both for when you chill the canister and for when you harden the ice cream after spinning. The colder the better. Below 0°F is ideal.
If you can get the canister this cold, you should be able to spin the ice cream in well under 15 minutes, depending on the quantity you're making. This will help keep the ice crystals small.

-check the temperature of the ice cream when you're done spinning it (the drawing temperature). This should be around 23°F.

-try your luck with a simpler flavor, like vanilla. Make sure you can get this right before venturing into fruit. Fruit flavors throw unpredictable amounts of added water and sugar into the mix, both of which can mess with your results from batch to batch. If you want to get serious, you can measure the brix of the mix ... basically the percentage of disolved solids. This will help you compensate for variances in your fruit.

-try some stabilizing ingredients, like commercial ice cream stabilizer, or gelatin, or a mix of gelatin and corn starch or gelatin and xanthan. These help improve (and adjust) texture and prevent ice crystals from forming during spinning or storage.

#285 RobertM

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:14 AM

Everyone

I printed out the topic discussion and followed most, if not all, of the advice given and thanks to you ALL there was a wonderful, non-icy batch of Strawberry ice cream created this past weekend - as usual, you folks on Gully are TRULY AMAZING and I thank each and every one of you -

#286 weinoo

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 09:31 AM

Jeez, we're so smart :biggrin: !
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#287 Lindacakes

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:03 AM

Reminds me of a scene in Mother with Debbie Reynolds and Albert Brooks.

She takes a year old carton of ice cream out of the freezer and then removes the "protective coating" of ice . . .

:laugh:
I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

#288 bigchef

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 07:08 AM

A few ago I made a large batch of french vanilla icecream at my restaurant. I cooked it for quite a long time to ensure the egg yolks where all cooked through. There was some light scorching at the end but not much. It took ages to churn as the AC was broken at the time. The flavour was so deep and rich. I can't figure out if the fats caramalised through the long cooking process (like baked milk), or the egg yolks cooked more than they should or what. I sieved it before I churned it of course. Any ideas on what might have happened? Maybe I should cook the mixture in a slow cooker for a long time on low? Then add the yolks?

#289 Tri2Cook

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 03:05 PM

I don't know what it was you loved about your ice cream but I'd guess that you're on the right track in relating it to the light scorching. There's a recipe in Francisco Migoya's Frozen Desserts for a burnt milk gelato that is incredibly delicious. I was skeptical going in but it's now one of my favorites. The (over)cooking of the milk really does do something special to the flavor.
It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

#290 bigchef

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 05:13 PM

That looks like a promissing leaed. What about cooking milk and cream for a long period? What happens? Some of the water evaporates I know but what about the fats and the solids? Do they caramalise? What about the egg yolk? Do you think the long cooking time does something to its flavour / composition? Or maybe the long churning time?

#291 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 07:28 PM

Well, as a dulce de leche fanatic, I can tell you that the longer you cook milk with sugar in it, the more it caramelizes and the rounder and fuller the flavour gets. The egg yolk is likely being denatured by the longer cooking time, which will also affect the flavour (how exactly I'm not certain, as I can't just eat cooked eggs), and the long churning time will contribute to a better texture.
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#292 djyee100

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 08:45 PM

You could consider what happens in cooking the Indian milk pudding, khir or kheer, which is basically milk, sugar, & flavorings slowly stirred & cooked for hours over low heat until it is reduced to a thick custard. The taste is amazing. It's not just cooked milk. I can't tell you what the science is, but you can't duplicate that rich flavor except with long slow cooking.

#293 Karri

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:00 PM

Maillard reaction, milk solids start to caramelize like making beurre noisette. You got any temperature details? And fat doesn't caramelize, per se.
http://en.wikipedia....illard_reaction

edit: Just remembered a vanilla ice cream I was making with the Thermomix, I put it in to pasteurize at 80 degrees Celsius and sort of... forgot about it as I was doing other prep work, and well long story short I put it through the PacoJet the next day and we all agreed that it had an amazing depth of flavor and it was just excellent.

Edited by Karri, 11 June 2011 - 10:03 PM.

The perfect vichyssoise is served hot and made with equal parts of butter to potato.

#294 Tri2Cook

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:51 AM

The milk in Migoya's recipe is cooked until the solids form a burnt layer on the bottom of the pan without sugar or anything else added. That all comes in after the cooking of the milk and ends up with a completely different flavor than a dulce de leche or anything else I've tried where the milk product is cooked with the sugar. I've never cooked a complete ice cream custard to the point you described but now I kinda want to just to check out the result.
It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

#295 bigchef

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 05:24 AM

The icecream didnt have a burnt flavour per se. It was very deep and rich with nutty tones. It really helped bring out the vanilla. I do wonder about the egg yolk element though. Maybe I should try using the old crock pot on low for 18 hours or so. Maybe use just double cream? Or double cream and milk like before? I'm not sure whether to try it with the sugar and egg in it or add it later on. Problem is with the slow cooker I dont think there is all that much evaporation going on.

#296 bigchef

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 06:11 AM

Could someone please post Francisco Migoya's recipe for burnt milk gelato?

#297 butterscotch

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 07:23 AM

Has anyone tried this recipe : http://cannelle-vani...-cream-and.html

#298 bigchef

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:09 AM

That recipe requires adding some of the sugar first. I thought you had to add the sugar afterwards? Do you stir that milk while it cooks? Why only measure out some of the milk after it is cooked? What is the purpose?

#299 butterscotch

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:13 AM

I am not sure of any of those things, but searching further I foundout that it is indeed from Migoya's book.
I would think adding the sugar early helps with the caramelization, no? I would not stir unless I strained it later, I think I would skip it. And I am guessing that you measure out a certain amount of milk and use only that to continue the recipe with- as evaporation rates may differ. Anyway- It sounds awfully good to me. Will have to try this soon. Let me know if you do!

Edited by butterscotch, 12 June 2011 - 10:16 AM.


#300 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 11:49 AM

Adding sugar at the outset helps with caramelization and can (depending on the type of sugar you use) also add some interesting dimensions to the flavour that wouldn't develop if you added it later. And yes, you want to stir the milk a bit, but not too much, because you do want a bit of it to stick to the bottom of the pot and develop the burnt caramel flavour.

I'm not sure about the measuring - it must be as you suggest, because evaporation differs.

Then again, I'm lazy and I just make this type of ice cream with dulce de leche.....
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