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Le Bernardin


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#121 johnder

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 01:31 PM

My personal view of pacing is assuming I am having a 7 course meal is something along the lines (based upon a 8pm res)

Personally I think you need at least 10 minutes in between courses, especially if they are rich foods. They were obviously firing the dished before we finished our last bite, as immediately when we finished our food our plates were wisked away, new wine server and silverware placed. The food arrived within 3-4 minutes after the previous plate left.

Given we spent the first 15 minutes having our aperitif and reading the food and wine menu the actual time of consuming the food was done in about 1 hour and 45 minutes.

Given we had amuse + 5 courses + cheese + desert + petit fours in that time, the average time of each course is (90 minutes / 9) = 10 minutes including eating time which is insanely fast.

Also another pet peeve I forgot to mention is they brought the petit-fours before the desert.

john

Pacing is an interesting thing since many diners have very different opinions on how long meals should take.  Regardless, 2 hours for a restaurant of that caliber seems much too fast.

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#122 robyn

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 03:31 PM

Not really an encouraging report for a new annointed Michelin 3-star restaurant.

Pacing is an interesting thing since many diners have very different opinions on how long meals should take.  Regardless, 2 hours for a restaurant of that caliber seems much too fast.

I'm considering going back to Le Bernardin over the holiday season but it seems as though it's not "wowing" people.

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Many diners may have very different opinions about pacing - but 2 hours for a meal like this isn't enough.

I think a high class restaurant that tries to turn over tables fast should warn potential diners. This may sound silly - but I ran across a restaurant that does this (Gordon Ramsay in London - 3* Michelin - has a warning on its web site that it reserves the right to kick you out after 2 hours on a busy night). Forewarned is forearmed. After reading this - I asked about lunch. They said "no problem" - lunch is basically a single seating - and you can take as much time as you want. So we ate lunch there instead of dinner (took a little over 2 1/2 hours for a 3 course lunch).

Anyway - this pacing thing is a pet peeve of mine. A dinner we had at a well known Chicago restaurant was almost ruined when it seemed to be trying to break the world's record for turning over tables. We asked them to slow down very near the start of the meal - and they did. But when we got to coffee - they told us our "meter had expired" - and requested that we have it served in the bar area (where people were waiting to be seated). A while later - there was an article in the WSJ about turning tables too quickly in high end restaurants - and this particular restaurant was listed as a prime offender.

Anyway - apart from eating lunch at places to try to avoid "table turnover syndrome" - I recommend eating at single seating restaurants - or eating on relatively slow nights of the week (like Monday and Tuesday) instead of weekends. Robyn

#123 gaf

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 10:09 PM

It Shouldn't Be New York City Entry #37

I last dined at Le Bernardin fifteen years ago. It was my last restaurant meal with my father, whose name, as it happens, was Bernard. I still recall that meal for many reasons, including the superb and sensuous fish (this was pre-Eric Ripert) and the somewhat dowdy space. This evening my dining companion was a friend who had known and worked with my dad in his days as a Freudian training analyst. So a certain nostalgia, mixed with a dollop of transference, hung in the air.

The space is now quite lovely: an expansive dining room with touches of Frank Lloyd Wright, a Japanese teahouse, glorious sculptural bouquets and a bit of Craft's downtown style thrown in for good measure. With the canonization of Le Bernardin as a temple of haute cuisine perfection, I imagined that my task would be to speculate on whether a restaurant devoted to the life aquatic could hold its own with restaurants drawing from sea, land, and air.

One of the finest meals I have experienced this year was the vegetable menu at Charlie Trotter's. Trotter, like Houdini, thrives by tying an arm and leg beyond his back. Of course, vegetable cuisine is the triumph of Eros over Thanatos. Produce is easy to cherish in the right hands. One can have subtle, pungent, or spicy preparations. Fish are not so forgiving. There are more ways to miscook fish than to perfect them. Accompaniments that are too bland and the dish disappears, a few seconds too long and one has pablum; too much spice and it is time for the trash. When fish are perfectly fresh, perfectly cooked, perfectly presented, and perfectly sauced, it is heaven on the plate. But if I don't trust the chef, serve me a stew anytime. Cooking fish is dancing on the highrope.

Le Bernardin should be the New York restaurant in which the diners realize that the finest fish dish can trump the finest game dish every time.

Tonight Le Bernardin revealed itself not to meet its own standards often enough. The last meal that I had at Brasserie Le Coze in Atlanta was a more satisfying dinner than at Maguy Le Coze's flagship. Perhaps the fact that Chef Ripert was not in the kitchen tonight, too busy at Barça 18, the downtown redoubt where he is a partner, explains matters. But restaurants at the level of Le Bernardin should be able to muddle through without serving that muddle. Someone hasn't been paying enough attention back on 51st Street.

Our first surprise was our choice of wine. We ordered a Gruner Veltliner Hiedler Loess 2003. When the bottle arrived, we discovered that it was the Hiedler Thal 2003. I don't know the vineyard sufficiently to distinguish. The wine was just fine, but we were disconcerted by the sommelier who cheerily announced that, despite the list, they didn't have the Loess, but only had the "regular" Hiedler. Puh-leeze. Still, this is a small enough error (It turns out that the Thal is a more expensive wine than the Loess: the listed price of the "Loess" was $68.00, although the wine is available for $11.00, a startling markup; the Thal is $22.00). A three star restaurant is permitted one such error each evening for the whole dining room.

The amuse managed to set things right. The barely cooked scallop in a tomato, garlic and clam foam was Neptune's gift. This scallop was oh-so-slightly warm, and was given oceanic purity by the clam froth. The tomato and garlic added flavors that allowed the dish to marry the sea with the garden, underlining the scallop's otherwise petite flavor. It would have done well as an appetizer.

Before the appetizers bread appeared. New Yorkers expect that bread can matter as much as wine, and nowhere should this be more true than in a restaurant spitting distance from Carnegie Deli to the North and Amy's Bread to the South. It is my sad duty to report that Le Bernardin's bread should be given a decent burial at sea. After filling up on splendid rolls at River Café earlier this week, I realized that those starches were no accident. Bernardin's whole wheat slice could have been a Gristede's special. The sourdough roll had a slightly greasy taste, an impressive feat given how dry it was. The third set of slices (I didn't catch what they allegedly contained) was cold and stale. When we complained, we were brought more slices: warm and stale.

In the three course prix-fixe one chooses a dish that is almost raw, one that is barely touched, and one that is lightly cooked. My companion's starter was Alaskan Wild Salmon, Marinated with Olive Oil, Lemon, Herbs, and Grapefruit (and unadvertised onion). In ordering raw salmon the comparison is Russ and Daughters, served with a smear. It was a draw. The hidden onion proved too powerful for the dish. The salmon was sea-fresh with interesting, if somewhat unbalanced, flavors. Nothing special.

In contrast, the quartet of raw fluke salads were a dream. The four small rectangular plates held a set of philosophical compositions including mild, spicy, Asian, and tropical flavors. I particular admired the final presentation, raw fluke with a touch of coconut milk, although the mild starter with scallions and cilantro was first rate too. This was superb showmanship, and reminded me of Grant Achatz's symphony of five preparations of hearts of palm.

As with the almost raw course, the second course - barely touched seafood - had one stelllar dish and one good one. The latter was Celariac Open Ravioli Filled with a Medley of Lobster, Langoustine and Shrimp. Le Bernardin has been criticized for its portion size. I felt that these three micro-ravioli were not weighty enough. The thin pasta did not provide enough contrast with the small scoop of fresh and fine shellfish. Around these three bites, our server poured a foie gras truffle sauce (pouring sauce around a cooked piece of seafood seems a Le Bernardin trademark). I could not understand the culinary logic, unless it was to place every luxury food on the same plate (I should have searched harder for a few grains of caviar). The contrast was not a failure, but the sauce, both too rich and too thin, didn't add much.

My companion's dish was the high point of this - and many - meals. She ordered Poached Lobster in a Lemon Miso Broth, Shiso and Hon Shimemi Mushrooms (Hypsizygus marmoreus for those who still celebrate the Latin mass of the woods). Wow. I cannot decide at this late hour whether the broth was rapture or whether it was the lobster. The shiso added that slightly bitter edge to the consomme which I treasure. The lobster was warm, sweet, and giving. This is the work of a mature chef, unafraid to blend classical and experimental techniques. It was a profound dish that may inspire a death bed memory.

Perhaps someone should remove the stoves from Le Bernardin's kitchen. The more Le Bernardin heats their fish the more of a chowder do they become. We had three main courses, none impressive, and one a disaster.

At the suggestion of our long-suffering (and competent) server, I ordered the Pan Roasted Monkfish, Confit Peppers and Fiery Patatas Bravas with a Chorizo-Albariño Emulsion. (Albariño is a Spanish wine). The dish was listed as "A Tribute to Gaudi." Huh? I expected some architectural feat that Alfred Portale might be proud to construct on his plate, but the dish with four potato wedges and several small coins of monkfish paid the magical architect no honor. Although the monkfish was cooked suitably, the spicy chorizo sauce smothered the lobster-like flavor of the monkfish. In a recipe for patatas bravas, baking potatoes were listed, but these wedges had turned grainy, demonstrating why baked potatoes require butter, cheese, and ham to hide an uncomfortable texture. Two of the four wedges had a firmer texture than their mates.

This dish was positively rosy by comparison to the Halibut "Salsa Verde" with Clam Juice, Roasted Garlic, Herb Puree and Lemon Juice with Warm Crab and Raw Matsutake Mushroom Salad. All of these free associations are nifty enough, but they depend on an edible piece of halibut. I have often fantasied about returning a dish to the kitchen, finally we had the chance. (The bread gave us the courage). The fish was stringy, flavorless and overcooked. It wasn't "off," just awful. I will leave other intrepid diners to judge the clam, garlic, crab, and all the rest. This dish is bleech-worthy.

Our server reasonably offered to replace the dish, and my companion chose Masala Spiced Crispy Black Bass, Peking Duck-Green Papaya Salad in a Ginger-Cardamon Broth. I didn't inquire why we were served "Peking" Salad on a menu that offers Patatas Bravas, Sancocho, Vitello Tonnato, and Hon Shimeji Mushrooms. Once again the spicy broth was extreme, exotic, silky, and magnificent. (Perhaps Chef Ripert can step in for Al Yeganeh now that our Soup Nazi has gone national). The crispy skin was worthy of the broth. The fish itself was rather bland and flavorless, and slightly overcooked. We finished the bouillon, but left bites of fish for the cat.

This trio of dishes should have been the pinnacle, but they revealed missteps and poor choices. We had no complaints over the quality of the fish, only what was done to the fillets at the stove.

Desserts, under the direction of Pastry Chef Michael Laiskonis, ranged from the excellent to the ordinary. To pacify us (although I could hardly be a sweeter and more accommodating diner), we were served an additional dessert. OK. It was the best of the trio: Passion Fruit Cream Enrobed in White Chocolate, Ginger Caramel, and Mandarin Sorbet. The "enrobed white chocolate" was a thin piece served on the side. Good, but not enrobed. However, linguistic defects aside (I'm still vexed about the Peking Salad), the passion fruit cream was delicious and the mandarin sorbet, if not as rich as some, made a suitable match.

The second dessert, Banana Crème Brulée with Citrus-Pistachio Biscuit, Beurre Noisette Ice Cream and Peanut Caramel, despite its many ingredients craved energy. The Crème Brulée sadly lacked its requisite crackly cover. I did enjoy the Brown Butter Ice Cream, but the biscuit was bland and dry.

The final offering was a Dark Chocolate, Cashew and Caramel Tart with Red Wine Reduction, Banana and Malted Rum Milk Chocolate Ice Cream. The tart was unexceptional - dark and rich, and about what one might find at a better bakery. The malted rum ice cream had a nice rum flavor, although the chocolate taste was muted.

Lovely dishes are to be had at Le Bernardin, but the inconsistency, particularly on the "lightly cooked" list suggest that the kitchen may be distracted. Has the Bush economy forced worthy cooks to work a second shift to place better bread on the table? What good is a night job when your admirers wonder at the gaffes that should never happen during the day. Chef Ripert and his Sous Chef Chris Miller are making too many Freudian slips.

Before we decide if a great fish restaurant can match an unbounded restaurant, we must rediscover that great fish restaurant.

Le Bernardin
155 W. 51st Street (Between 6th and 7th Avenues)
Manhattan (Midtown West)
212-554-1515

My Webpage: Vealcheeks

Edited by gaf, 02 December 2005 - 07:53 AM.


#124 gps-shag

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 03:58 PM

I had lunch at Le Bernardin about two weeks ago.  Disappointing.  The room is nice enough but has no real style or character.  The menu was dull.  I found myself searching for something that sounded special rather than struggling to choose among several enticing offerings. 

It was just one meal, but my impression was that Le B has become a tired restaurant that is not really in the game anymore.

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I'll have to agree - I was very disappointed as well. I come to NYC once a year, and having looked forward to coming here for months, I didn't find that the dinner I had was particularly impressive. It was all fine, I suppose, but not the caliber that I had expected.

This past week I went to Le Bernardin, WD-50, and Per Se. Went to Daniel last year.
Per Se was the most incredible meal I have had in my life - perfect in every way.
WD-50 was extremely inventive and creative, but sometimes to the point that the taste of the food came behind the attempt to be new.
Daniel was fantastic. Probably what Le Bernardin should be.
Le Bernardin was just OK. Not bad, but definitely not one of the top few restaurants in New York.

#125 johnjohn

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 12:31 PM

Is there much of a difference between lunch and dinner at Le Bernardin? I was given a 150 dollar gift certificate and am wondering for which of the two I should use it. Do I spend a few extra bucks out of pocket and take my girlfriend for a leisurely weekday lunch at the 57 prix fixe or spend more than a few extra bucks out of pocket and do the 105 prix fixe at dinner?

#126 oakapple

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 01:24 PM

I've never been to Le Bernardin. A friend said to me yesterday that Le Bernardin "feels like" a business restaurant, that it's not particularly good for romantic occasions, and that it doesn't even have very many tables for two. She loves the food, by the way; she was just trying to characterize the vibe.

Anyone agree or disagree?

#127 Sneakeater

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 01:30 PM

I agree. The room absolutely has that vibe.

I'd also add that many of the two-tops are so wide that you find yourself shouting at your date. You certainly can't hold hands across the table, if you're inclined to do so. (I alsays sort of think of the scene in Citizen Kane where we watch Kane's marriage deteriorate as the distance at the breakfast table gets longer and longer.)

Edited by Sneakeater, 10 January 2007 - 01:31 PM.


#128 docsconz

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 02:54 AM

Congratulations to eGullet Society member Michael Laskonis for his James Beard Award as Outstanding Pastry Chef!
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#129 AvsKick21

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 06:45 PM

I was wondering if lunch at Le B was a significant dropoff in quality from dinner. Just wanted to check as there haven't been many comments recently.
Thanks.

#130 BryanZ

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 07:14 PM

My understanding of lunch is that it's not all that great of a value. Rather than getting four courses, you get to choose only three. This is based on a convo I had with a reservationist there last week. At $65 this is something of a savings but not to the extent of JG, EMP, Bouley, or some of the city's other top restaurants.

#131 AvsKick21

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 07:59 PM

Thanks for the info. I've been trying to figure out where to go as I'm only around for two more days and am trying to hit as many places as possible. I tried to go to JG last week and the main dining room is under construction, which of course they didn't tell me when I made the reservation. I think I'll try and hit EMP+Fleur de Sel one day, and Bouley and somewhere else another, I just have to figure out where. Those were all on the radar, and I thought that LB might round it out, but I think I'll look elsewhere.

#132 BryanZ

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 08:28 PM

How did they not tell you when you made the reso? Did they mistakenly book you in Nougatine? I tried to book for the 20th and they told me straight away that the main dining room was closed for renovations.

#133 AvsKick21

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 08:54 PM

post removed

Edited by AvsKick21, 27 August 2007 - 06:37 PM.


#134 sethd

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 02:47 PM

Jean Georges is 10 years old this year. Becoming one of the grand dames of the fine dining culture of New York.

Secondly, in my experience, the reservationists always ask which dining room one cares to experience.

They plan on re-opening the main dining room this wednesday evening.

As for Le Bernardin, lunch is still a wonderful experience. The menu is almost identical to dinner, except for the 3 versus 4 four course option. I usually ask for the fourth course, anyway.

#135 MarkIsCooking

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 06:14 PM

About 5 years ago, I spent a week in the kitchen at Le Bernardin (which I paid handsomely for by the way). Setting aside the cost, the experience was fantastic. At that time, I had never spent any time in a professional kitchen. I had heard the line, "If you saw what went on in the kitchen, you wouldn't want to eat there." Not true at all in the case of LB. Lots of very dedicated people. Clean work habits. A respect for food that was very cool.

Each afternoon during the between lunch-and-dinner lull, the Chef de Cuisine asked me to pick anything off the menu and he'd show me how to make it. Very cool and everything quite delicious.

In terms of the comment about their philosophy, what Eric Ripert says is, "We don't plate the fish. We plate for the fish." OK, nice sound bite, but it was what I saw in action. While the dishes tended to be 'not done up' by some plating standards, there were several sauces in use. Someone came in every morning to get the day's sauces made or otherwise ready to go. The attention to detail in the items that got plated was quite extraordinary. This included the standards for dicing, matching dice sizes and the like; and this included using only perfect whole kernels of corn (which remained whole as a visual element) for the John Dory sauce.

Regarding the physical space, the picture Fat Guy posted is one of the private rooms. Under construction at the time I was there, LB converted the entire 2nd floor above the restaurant (previously used for office space) into private function space. The room is configured with 2 open/close dividers, so the space can be 1 large space, 1 bigger and 1 smaller or 3 smaller rooms. Plus, there is a kitchen upstairs, which ER felt was needed to avoid causing disruption to the restaurant kitchen when private functions were underway.

No place is perfect and I haven't eaten there in maybe 4 years, but I have very fond memories of both my week there and the food I've eaten there.

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#136 oakapple

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:57 AM

My understanding of lunch is that it's not all that great of a value.  Rather than getting four courses, you get to choose only three.  This is based on a convo I had with a reservationist there last week.  At $65 this is something of a savings but not to the extent of JG, EMP, Bouley, or some of the city's other top restaurants.

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One reason for the lunch price, I think, is that LB is in a neighborhood where it can attract a significant business crowd.

#137 robert brown

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 12:19 PM

I had the allegedly good fortune of being invited for lunch at Le Bernadin ( or, as I enjoy calling it, "The Bernadin of Iniquity") earlier this month. Therefore, I couldn't bust the maitre d's chops to try to improve my lot, as is my wont, because I didn't want to offend my generous host. I have to say, nonetheless, that I was somewhat appaled to have to chose as my main course among so many farmed fish fillets. In fact, the only whole wild fish was red snapper that you had to order a day ahead. It was difficult not to think that the choice was the same as what you can buy at Citarella's, Dorian's or Whole Foods. I also found that the sauces on my halibut filet and octopus starter were overly-complex, muddled and sweet. Coupled from what I heard from someone in the profession that the microwave gets a good workout there, I'm not returning until the next person, whomever it may be, invites me there, whenever that may be.

#138 flinflon28

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 08:42 AM

Sorry to hear about your dissapointing meal. I had a six week stage there in 06 and can say with some certainty that one dish only received a touch of the microwave in the time I was there.

#139 robyn

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 07:33 PM

I will not hear a word against farm raised catfish (having experienced the "wild" variety). Of course - I pay less than $5/pound for it - and pan fry it - and I doubt that is what you had at Le Bernadin :wink: .

Seriously - it's hard to find decent fish anywhere in the US these days. We were really spoiled during our trip to Japan. We did have a nice swordfish dish at our golf club last night - and I doubt it was farm-raised (don't think there is such a thing as farm-raised swordfish - is there?). Robyn

#140 Timh

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 09:11 PM

We have a farm of free range swordfish here off of the cape(cod). And the free range bluefin(lil' bastards) always causin trouble. Ax johnnyd.....

#141 ulterior epicure

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:49 PM

I'm looking at the restaurant's lunch menu. The prix fixe is $64. I'm assuming this is for three savory courses. Am I correct? Can anyone confirm this?
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#142 Nathan

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:48 PM

I think it's two.

#143 ulterior epicure

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:48 PM

I think it's two.

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And, dessert is a la carte (in addition to)?
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#144 Nathan

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:13 PM

I think it's two.

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And, dessert is a la carte (in addition to)?

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I think dessert is included.

#145 BryanZ

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:03 PM

It includes 2 savory courses and dessert. Not a particularly great deal, since, if we hold portion size relatively constant, they're just scaling back the dinner menu by one course.

#146 ulterior epicure

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:06 PM

It includes 2 savory courses and dessert.  Not a particularly great deal, since, if we hold portion size relatively constant, they're just scaling back the dinner menu by one course.

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Am I crazy, or did Le Bernadin, until fairly recently, offer a "Market Lunch" for $35? Also, the Chef's Tasting is now at $185. How long has it been at that level. For some reason, I remember having the Chef's Tasting about three years ago for about $50 less... but I'm not certain.
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#147 AvsKick21

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:09 PM

They list a 3-course "City Harvest Lunch" at the bottom of the tasting menus for $40.

#148 ulterior epicure

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:13 PM

They list a 3-course "City Harvest Lunch" at the bottom of the tasting menus for $40.

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Sorry, I didn't scroll down far enough. Thanks!
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#149 ulterior epicure

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:15 PM

It includes 2 savory courses and dessert.  Not a particularly great deal, since, if we hold portion size relatively constant, they're just scaling back the dinner menu by one course.

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Am I crazy, or did Le Bernadin, until fairly recently, offer a "Market Lunch" for $35? Also, the Chef's Tasting is now at $185. How long has it been at that level. For some reason, I remember having the Chef's Tasting about three years ago for about $50 less... but I'm not certain.

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Correction, the Chef's Tasting is currently at $180, not $185.
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#150 BryanZ

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:37 PM

I'm not even sure that City Harvest option is even available. I'd definitely call to confirm.