237 replies to this topic

[Lesley C]

You know Tom, I find your post offensive. Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but calling Toque! crap is beyond an opinion, it's a slur.
Also, regarding Cena, I wouldn't call a three-star rating in the NY Times a failure. I know why that restaurant closed, it sure doesn't sound like you do.
Do us all a favour, and take your far superior palate back to your city or to all the restaurants around the world you think are better.
I can tell you're new to eGullet. The people who have been here a while offer constructive criticism instead of using words like "crap" or "garbage" to describe food. I like to save words like that to describe vile foodies who should spend a week in a refugee camp in the Sudan with a bowl of rice.

[jm chen]

We had a lot of great food in Montreal, everywhere we went. Definitely hit Chez Schwartz for a great cheap lunch, and Eggs... what's that place, Eggstravaganza? for breakfast or brunch.

And try the bagels. Must try the bagels.

[lambretta76]

Ah, Lesley C, I agree with you on most accounts. However, I can think of one instance where "garbage" is required to describe a food item, and is done so with the utmost of respect.



Nick Tahou's "Garbage Plate" in Rochester, NY, USA. It makes poutine look like health food.

[little ms foodie]

I have to agree with Lesley C also, Tom your remarks are crude. I appreciate your wanting to give some advice but honestly I think I'll take that of members who I know are constructive vs critical. Also I'll go with the advice from people who like the same restaurants/type of food/chefs that I tend to.

It's great to have new members but you might want to revise your strategy for communicating

Edited by little ms foodie, 15 September 2005 - 09:45 AM.

[Daddy-A]

You know Tom, I find your post offensive. Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but calling Toque! crap is beyond an opinion, it's a slur.

I'm not sure his remark is any different than Alexandra Gill's last August in the G&M re: Watermark in Vancouver ...

On the surface, this new $7-million restaurant is a mind-blowing stunner. But once you taste the crap coming out of the kitchen, the sheer waste of it all makes you want to cry.

If you want to take exception with Tom's post, question what his hidden agenda is, as it seems he has one.

Back OT, Club C et P sounds amazing. Haven't been to Quebec since I was in university, so I can only suggest The Peel

A.

[wattacetti]

Back OT, Club C et P sounds amazing.  Haven't been to Quebec since I was in university, so I can only suggest The Peel

Ah… the hangout of many of McGill University's American and Ontarian contingent back when I was at the alma mater. Was dragged there once and watched a waiter make up a new pitcher by combining the (theoretically) unused remainders of other pitchers.

Did I mention that my glass was dotted with little crusty bits and still had lipstick prints?

[gnatharobed]

When I was at McGill Peel Pub was shut down for a while because of the recycled beer. ick.

[Vinfidel]

When I was at McGill Peel Pub was shut down for a while because of the recycled beer.  ick.

yes but this was the one on park avenue. all of them are garbage.

i think the guy has a point that toque is not great, certainly the only great thing there isthe foie gras and the price on the bill and the wine list. it is too serious now i likd it better as a bistrot in st denis

lesley what happened to n laprise restaurnt in new york? i did not hear of it even tho i lived there for years

[carswell]

When I was at McGill Peel Pub was shut down for a while because of the recycled beer.  ick.

Dating myself here... When I was at McGill, there was only one Peel Pub (corner of Peel and Ste-Catherine) and it was a gay tavern often referred to as the Real Rub.

[Tom Gandey]

You know Tom, I find your post offensive. Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but calling Toque! crap is beyond an opinion, it's a slur.
Also, regarding Cena, I wouldn't call a three-star rating in the NY Times a failure. I know why that restaurant closed, it sure doesn't sound like you do.
Do us all a favour, and take your far superior palate back to your city or to all the restaurants around the world you think are better.
I can tell you're new to eGullet. The people who have been here a while offer constructive criticism instead of using words like "crap" or "garbage" to describe food. I like to save words like that to describe vile foodies who should spend a week in a refugee  camp in the Sudan with a bowl of rice.

Calling Toque! "crap" is clear, concise and unfortunately... correct. I know precisely why Cena closed as his close friend Daniel Vezina (owner of Laurie Raphael in QC) told me... the investors pulled the plug because they were only doing half of the revenue they needed to make it fly.

Maybe you should do a little bit of travelling. Like I said, Montreal is an excellent food city... but it certainly isn't a city with compelling restaurants.

[Tom Gandey]

I have to agree with Lesley C also, Tom your remarks are crude. I appreciate your wanting to give some advice but honestly I think I'll take that of members who I know are constructive vs critical. Also I'll go with the advice from people who like the same restaurants/type of food/chefs that I tend to.

It's great to have new members but you might want to revise your strategy for communicating 

I'm sure I came off as harsh, but that is because I felt so burned by my meal at Toque. I went in with fairly high expectations and everything from the front of the house attitude to the miniscule unbalanced portions of largely mediocre ingredients just elevated my blood pressure. Now when someone mentions Toque and the THOUGHT of wasting their time and money there. Abrasive or passionately opinionated well-intentioned person of few words? My only reward is saving you the disappointment.

You are a big girl and can make up your own mind, but consider yourself warned :)

[little ms foodie]

Well this girl ate at Toque last Friday night and I definately wasn't served crap. And my service was excellent. Quality of food and presentation was also excellent. Was it on the cutting edge? No, the Spanish chef's still reign supreme in this category. Was it beautiful and tasty? YES!

I'll be posting a full trip report soon but just wanted you to know that it was no disappointment

[Tom Gandey]

I will be looking forward to your evaluation. But if I may ask a few questions?

Was Chef Laprise in the house?
What night did you visit on / how full was the resto?
When you say it wasn't cutting edge, how technically perfect was the execution (ie: Pacaud, Keller, McDonalds, Burger King)?

I am interested on your take regarding the restaurant, and moreover if you would return.

I'm assuming you had some good tomato dishes (they are really good in late Sept there)?

[little ms foodie]

Was Chef Laprise in the house?

yes, in fact when he saw us taking photos he sent out the tasting menus for us to take with us (the tasting menu was a 'surprise', items weren't called out on the restaurant menu)

What night did you visit on / how full was the resto?

Friday night, 8:30 res. I didn't see any empty tables.

When you say it wasn't cutting edge, how technically perfect was the execution (ie: Pacaud, Keller, McDonalds, Burger King)?

Excution wasn't a problem, it was done just as well as what I've had at Taillevant or the French Laundry. The fois gras was amazing. I was referring to creativity. The dishes are being done elsewhere which is fine, my favorite dish was our 1st course of sea urchin served in the shell, I hadn't had this before and thought it really fun.

I am interested on your take regarding the restaurant, and moreover if you would return.

I wouldn't personally return as I don't get to Montreal so I would want to try out different places the next time I have a chance to visit. But I would recommend it to anyone looking for a very nice evening of beautiful food.

I'm assuming you had some good tomato dishes (they are really good in late Sept there)?

Not really although our tuna was on a tomato bread pudding..... I'll be posting pictures with full menu this weekend when I get a chance.

[Tom Gandey]

At the very least, I'm glad you enjoyed the foie gras... definitely top-notch, even on my visit. I don't know what he does to it, but I suspect it gets some sort of salt cure before the final preperation. In any case, I'm glad you experienced it as it was the only positive impression I had about the experience.

Do you think the level of execution is on the level of Tallievent? I find this one a severe stretch. I don't particularily care for Tallievent because it has an old and staid menu, but I certainly find it has top-notch technical execution no matter which chef M. Vrinat chooses. I don't feel Toque deserves similar praise.

Perhaps I was there in a rough time for the Chef (while he had his NYC resto). I will let a few more brave (non-local) souls report back before I chance that one again though :(

Looking forward to the full report and feel free to send me some of Armandino's salumi (yum) :p That is one place I wish we had in Toronto... his stuff is great. Curious though, have you tried his mole and what do you think of it?

[jfl91]

I have been disapointed some times at Toqué but when Laprise is there and it's good, its really good. I have been disapointed to many of the great restaurants in the world but it dosen't mean these restaurants are ''crap''. Hey, Keller restaurants got some bad reviews and it dosen't mean that Per Se or the French Laundry are ''crap''.

Toqué is a excellent restaurant!

P.S. Better than Laurie and Initiale for sure. And BTW, it's all about L'Utopie in Quebec city.

Edited by jfl91, 30 September 2005 - 08:07 AM.

[Lesley C]

"non-local"

So I guess you're saying that we locals cannot offer an objective review of the place?

Edited by Lesley C, 30 September 2005 - 10:01 PM.

[identifiler]

P.S. Better than Laurie and Initiale for sure. And BTW, it's all about L'Utopie in Quebec city.

This might be off topic. I like going to Utopie also JF but I have an issue with showing up in Quebec City, on a Wednesday night being alone in the place. I hope folks in Quebec City can get off the St-Rock "is bad and full prostitute" scare mongering. That whole area, needs some serious evening jump start on weekdays and Boudoir ain't gonna help any. It's kind of a shame that I would rather have fun eating a toulouse at 9:00PM at the bar of C du monde than look at my own reflexion in the windows of Utopie with excellent food. One can't help wonder about the plannar speakers, the decor, the sheer size of the place, the rent and the weekday volumes... I guess the place must be packed for lunch. They also have a very nice wine list.

Have you checked out the new Laurie Menu ? , it's pretty drastic change although I have not seen the undescribed plates.

[jfl91]

I have never been really impressed by Daniel V.
I don't know about his new menu but I have been to his restaurant (also the old one) many many times. I prefer way more Toqué than Laurie. As for Utopie, I think it's not because of St-Rock but more of Quebec city in general. I think when you hit the bad season of the year, the mid-week are not easy.

[little ms foodie]

I've posted my review of Montreal and Quebec City here. Thanks again for all the advice and input!

[Tom Gandey]

I have been disapointed some times at Toqué but when Laprise is there and it's good, its really good.  I have been disapointed to many of the great restaurants in the world but it dosen't mean these restaurants are ''crap''.  Hey, Keller restaurants got some bad reviews and it dosen't mean that Per Se or the French Laundry are ''crap''.

Toqué is a excellent restaurant!

P.S. Better than Laurie and Initiale for sure. And BTW, it's all about L'Utopie in Quebec city.

Perhaps worth another try... I guess every place can have an off night. I've had a mediocre meal at Auberge d'Ill and a downright horrible one at Bouley, but yet people I know and trust when it comes to food tell me that I might just be horribly unlucky.

As for Per Se, I had a meal there last month that was very good but certainly not up to his usual high standards.

One more chance, then its 2 strikes and he's out

[Tom Gandey]

"non-local"

So I guess you're saying that we locals cannot offer an objective review of the place?

I don't think anyone that actually loves food can write a truly objective review about any restaurant. The fact that locals may be friends with the chef or be some way biased as a matter of culinary pride are color peoples assessments.

I could tell you that Eigensinn Farm has the best food in Canada, but you would take that with a grain of salt because I'm from Toronto. If 5 people from outside Canada told you the same thing, you would be inclined to believe them, wouldn't you?

[sf&m]

Well, if you love the food and not the chef - I think you can. :) Of course you can.

To me the best part of a professional review is the REPORTING and CONTEXT. What kind of food, what kind of presentation, layout and style of restaurant etc. will usually tell me if it's something I would be interested in. Just the facts, Ma'm!

I am looking less for "opinions" and "emoting", which rarely belongs in a good restaurant review.

And there is nothing wrong with pride and "promotion" of local talent and producers if it's done in an informative way. I think that is an important role of a reviewer - to inform especially out of towners of what is available. To help local and out of towners broaden their experiences, and yes, SUPPORT local providers.

And a good reviewer makes his/her judgements based on several visits to a resto, rather the the often snap judgements you find on egullet.

That's why I usually recommend professional reviews like "Flavourville" etc. to visitors above egullet opinions which are much more often clouded by personal agendas.

Which are enjoyable also but needs a hefty addition of salt. Like the person who really enjoyed the food at LCC&P but "would not go back" because the waitress had an off night on their ONE visit.... H'mmmm

[Lesley C]

a good reviewer makes his/her judgements based on several visits to a resto

I hate to speak for all MTL reviewers here but that rarely happens anymore. Dining-out budgets aren't getting any bigger and most of the reviewers are freelancers. More time spent on the job doesn't mean more money. So the idea of the three-visit review is just dying out -- a shame but there it is, a matter of economics.

[Vinfidel]

a good reviewer makes his/her judgements based on several visits to a resto

I hate to speak for all MTL reviewers here but that rarely happens anymore. Dining-out budgets aren't getting any bigger and most of the reviewers are freelancers. More time spent on the job doesn't mean more money. So the idea of the three-visit review is just dying out -- a shame but there it is, a matter of economics.

this is very sad and again goes back to the issue of this being a city that is best on a budget since the media cannot afford to promote the city best since the dynamic is changing too fast

i read your sad review of i sense in the paper today

i ate there 3x so far 1 was terrible 1 was soso 1 was great. i agree with the oversalting it reminds me of an old place on st laurent called BAILA that was like eating in a salt factory, i d o not agree about the clamari i think they were excellent

i hope that lesley you will start your own web site of independent food review like a blog. this i think is the future for this city since our local newspapers cannot do justice to the food scene which is very dynamic and if they pay you per word there is no motivatin to go to a resto many times before a review

the saving grace is the gazette website needs a subscription so i think most turists will be coming here to get a review insttead of the newspaper

[docsconz]

.

And a  good reviewer makes his/her judgements based on several visits to a resto, rather the the often snap judgements you find on egullet.

That's why I usually recommend professional reviews like "Flavourville" etc. to visitors above egullet opinions which are much more often clouded by personal agendas.

Not to take anything away from professional critics (and fortunately we have a number of good ones on eGullet such as Lesley), but I get a lot more out of eGullet reviews than I do from most professional critics. It is hard to get a worthwhile sense from someone posting for the first time, but over time and through direct interaction with other members one can get a much better sense of shared affinities than through someone who is a total stranger. In the Montreal and Quebec forum, amongst others I can always rely on Carswell and Lesley for their knowledge and insight. Others provide equally great insight in other areas.

Although I haven't been to the new location yet, the old Toque has always been a world-class restaurant to me. One thing I agree on with Tom Gandey is Laprise's foie gras is amazing. I have never had better anywhere.

[annapin]

Hi everyone,
I am planning a five day trip to Montreal over Labor Day weekend. We have booked a room at the Bonaparte Hotel in the old town. Does anyone have thoughts on this hotel? I would also love recommendations for a great wine bar as well as Montreal restaurants. We live in NYC so we would like to go to places that are truly, unique to Montreal. Thanks in advance!

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

If you like liver, try Au Pied de Cochon.

Actually, I mean, if you like life.

[Spiro]

My wife and I were in Montreal Easter weekend. My father drove up from Kingston and we all went to eat at Bonaparte. It was quite good, though nothing cutting-edge. There are better "destination restaurants" in town (and you'll get tons of recommendations here), but if it works out that you've got to eat at the hotel for some reason, you'll have a good meal.

[gus_tatory]

Hi everyone,
...I would also love recommendations for a great wine bar as well as Montreal restaurants...

welcome to eGullet, annapin~!

try these threads, for starters:
my weekend in montreal--top ten
montreal in gourmet
top ten dishes i ate in montreal

there's lots of stuff in the archives, and a lot of the most helpful stuff is by a user named carswell--if you search him as a user and then "read member's posts", he has essentially written *detailed* guided tours on here before!

so it's not that i'm not being helpful--it's that i can't hope to do better than he already has!

please post back during/after your stay here, and bienvenue a Montreal~!


ALSO:
1st trip to montreal
and
http://www.montrealfood.com

Edited by gus_tatory, 10 August 2006 - 08:51 AM.