323 replies to this topic

[aidensnd]

So I have some pate de fruit that I let get too dry before I tried to roll them in sugar and now the sugar won't adhere. Does anyone have any ideas how to 'stickify' the pate?

Thanks

[CalumC]

Could you slightly heat the edges of the pate, perhaps softening the fruit a little, so that the sugar than adheres. Seems a tricky situation, maybe a very slight brush of water to the sides would do it.

[Fugu]

Apricot glaze might work? If it is does not have kiwi or pineapple, gelatine might also work?

[plk]

I would think a super fine mist with a spray bottle or a quick pass-over with a kitchen torch would do it. Test on one first, though.

[Kerry Beal]

If you have a clothes steamer, just steam the surface for a couple of seconds before throwing in the sugar.

[Boodles]

U could reboil it with the addition of water. Cook until desired thickness is reached. This would be your best way of getting it moist again.

[Kerry Beal]

U could reboil it with the addition of water. Cook until desired thickness is reached. This would be your best way of getting it moist again.

When you've added acid at the end of the cooking the pates de fruit don't melt readily, so recooking them wouldn't be an option.

The subject of the "Back to Basics" series of the Pennsylvania Manufacturing Confectioners Association meeting this year was jellies. A batch of pectin orange slices was made, shaken out of the starch and steamed (with one of those Shark steamers) before being thrown into a coating pan with coarse sugar. Apparently in production the jellies are sent through a steamer before hitting the sugar.

An attempt to steam gummies before coating them with nonpariels wasn't as sucessful because the gelatin is not heat stable like the pectin.

[Boodles]

I've reboiled fruit pate a few times now, and some have been very thick and tough, and have had no problems doing this.

I suppose it also depends on if they are home made or bought or what type (ie what fruit base they are) as the ingredients/cooking process will determine whether or not boiling it is an option.

[aidensnd]

Well it turned out to be much easier to fix than I thought. I just brushed them with a bit of water and then wiped off the excess and it worked fine. I had thought of doing that before but was thinking that the moisture would just melt the sugar but it actually worked perfectly. I had also tried hitting them with a torch, warming them in the oven, putting them in a hot oven and steaming them for a couple of seconds but none of those worked. I have recooked batches before but the results weren't as good after being cooked twice and it was a major pain to try to get it all to melt before burning and it took a long long time.

Thanks for the replies.

[pastrypez]

Made some Pate de Fruit in school on Friday and we'll be cutting into it tomorrow and taking a look at it. I'll take some pics and upload the recipe if it turns out! My notes indicate that we used apple pectin though we did discuss the use of agar.

[prairiegirl]

What is the shelf life for pate de fruit?

[Kerry Beal]

What is the shelf life for pate de fruit?

I've found it's usually still fine after several months.

[cakedecorator1968]

HI,

My apolpgy if this has been asked before.

I have a few frozen Boiron Fruit puree's, citric acid powder and slow set apple pectin powder. I think I'm set???

In one recipe I saw it asked for using applesauce in the recipe along with added pectin. Necessary?

Questions:

How do I make the pate de fruit? How do I mix together everything?
Do I really need a fancy confectionary frame to pour it out into?
What temperature do I cook it to?
Do I really need a high scale refractometer?

[John DePaula]

HI,

My apolpgy if this has been asked before.

I have a few frozen Boiron Fruit puree's, citric acid powder and slow set apple pectin powder. I think I'm set???

In one recipe I saw it asked for using applesauce in the recipe along with added pectin. Necessary?

Questions:

How do I make the pate de fruit? How do I mix together everything?
Do I really need a fancy confectionary frame to pour it out into?
What temperature do I cook it to?
Do I really need a high scale refractometer?

Take a look at the Boiron site: General Instructions for Making Pates de fruits

You can use lemon juice in place of tartaric acid.

It is not necessary (or desirable) to add applesauce.

If you do not have glucose, it is possible to substitute corn syrup.

You do not need a fancy confectionary frame. Instead, you can line a cookie sheet with foil that has been lightly oiled or buttered. Take a look at the book 'Candymaking' by Kendrick and Atkinson for good beginner info. You can also use molds made of high temp silicone.

ETA: I've heard that some folks buy rectangular wooden dowels at the hardware store, cut to size, and wrapped in foil, then oiled, to use for confectionary frames. You could then place these on a silpat.

You do not need a refractometer, but it is useful for consistency from batch to batch. You do need a good thermometer.

Hope this helps.

Edited by John DePaula, 13 November 2007 - 11:37 AM.

[Kerry Beal]

John has it covered. Those are the same recipes I use with the boiron purees. I do half batches and have my metal rulers on a silpat spaced out to make a square of about 10 by 10 inches.

If you decide you want tartaric acid check in a wine making place - they usually have it. Alternately a pharmacy can bring it in for you.

Let us know how it goes.

[JWest]

Make sure to skim any impurities out...usually it all comes up to the top after it starts boiling. This will help with consistency in your product and reduce any cloudiness in your pate de fruit. I'm not sure how the others feel but I find it best to keep them room temperature and not chilled...once you're finished- otherwise you'll end up with an unfavorable texture and stickiness.

[JWest]

HI,

My apolpgy if this has been asked before.

I have a few frozen Boiron Fruit puree's, citric acid powder and slow set apple pectin powder. I think I'm set???

In one recipe I saw it asked for using applesauce in the recipe along with added pectin. Necessary?

Questions:

How do I make the pate de fruit? How do I mix together everything?
Do I really need a fancy confectionary frame to pour it out into?
What temperature do I cook it to?
Do I really need a high scale refractometer?

Take a look at the Boiron site: General Instructions for Making Pates de fruits

You can use lemon juice in place of tartaric acid.

It is not necessary (or desirable) to add applesauce.

If you do not have glucose, it is possible to substitute corn syrup.

You do not need a fancy confectionary frame. Instead, you can line a cookie sheet with foil that has been lightly oiled or buttered. Take a look at the book 'Candymaking' by Kendrick and Atkinson for good beginner info. You can also use molds made of high temp silicone.

ETA: I've heard that some folks buy rectangular wooden dowels at the hardware store, cut to size, and wrapped in foil, then oiled, to use for confectionary frames. You could then place these on a silpat.

You do not need a refractometer, but it is useful for consistency from batch to batch. You do need a good thermometer.

Hope this helps.

I use citric acid but I am curious, what does tartaric acid do for the pate de fruits?

[Kerry Beal]

From Food Product Design

Citric and tartaric acids, being more hydrophilic than other food acids, impart a sourness that dissipates quickly. Their rapid dissipation gives these acids a clean, bright flavor effect, often a benefit in beverage applications. Sourness from less-hydrophilic acids, like acetic, fumaric and malic, will persist, and this allows developers to balance the taste of high-intensity sweeteners with sourness. 

Beyond sourness, acids' flavor characters vary. Citric acid, the most widely used food acid in today's food and beverage industries, provides a sharp, yet clean and refreshing, tart taste. Acetic acid has a very volatile, pungent flavor, often lending the aroma of vinegar. The refreshing sourness of green apples comes from malic acid. In fact, all fruits (except tamarinds, which are actually seedpods) contain some malic acid, often blending with other acids to create the unique taste of each fruit. Malic offers a smooth lingering tartness. Fermentation of malic acid yields lactic acid -- with its lingering mild taste, and subtle dairy aroma. Malolactic fermentation in wine results in a more-rich, buttery taste, versus the fresh fruity taste of malic acid. Tartaric acid lends a more-sharp taste than the other acids and is responsible for the distinctively hard taste of tamarinds. Fumaric is derived from malic acid. It is the strongest of the organic acids, with a taste that is clean and persistent, and it has a unique dryness.

I wonder if I could find some malic acid for my green apple pate de fruit?

[Tri2Cook]

I wonder if I could find some malic acid for my green apple pate de fruit?

HERE ya go.

It's HERE too. A little more expensive here but their printed prices include everything except the shipping, no taxes, duties or brokerages due, so it may work out cheaper in the long run. They have pretty good prices on other things as well (agar and egg white powder for example). The first time I ordered from them I was a bit worried about quality (after experiencing some of the crap in the bins in a bulk store not too far from where I live) but everything's been fine so far.

Edited by Tri2Cook, 13 November 2007 - 08:57 PM.

[JWest]

I don't remember seeing anything on this...does citric acid have anything to do with the effectiveness of the pectin? Would I need to add more pectin if there's more citric acid added to the recipe?

[John DePaula]

Just a thought:

->PDF's originally from France, said to be made by abbeys, grannies
->Then I assume, they don't always have "apple pectin powder" 50 years ago...
->I use "PDF+recette" to try to find such a no-powder recipe, with my Kindergarden French and a heavyduty dictionary. Here's what I found:


<PaTES DE FRUITS>
 
TEMPS
>> Cuisson : 1h  / Preparation : 15 min  / Repos : 1 j
INGREDIENTS
- 1 kg de fruits prépaprés (épluchés et dénoyautés)
- 1 verre d'eau
- 1 kg de sucre
- le jus de 1 citron

Cette recette est valable pour tous les fruits sauf pommes et coins


PREPARATION
- Cuire les fruits avec environ 1 verre d'eau à petit feu.
- Lorsqu'ils sont fondus (comme une compote) les mixer.
- Peser la purée de fruits et ajouter le même poids de sucre et le jus de citron.
- Cuire à petit feu en tournant très regulièrement (et tout le temps en fin de cuisson), jusqu'à obtenir un sillon au fond de la casserole quand on tourne : compter 1h à 1h10 de cuisson + ou - (on obtient une pate homogène)
- Mettre un papier sulfurisé huilé dans un couvercle de bo?te en metal (par exemple de bo?te à gateaux) et verser la pate.
- Laisser refroidir puis mettre une nuit au frigo
- Découper en carrés et rouler dans le sucre cristal
- Etaler sur un plat et faire sécher a l'air libre (endroit froid et sec) pendant quelques heures avant de mettre le tout dans un tupperware et stocker au frigo.

Les pates de fruits se conservent ainsi facilement 1 mois (plus, je ne sais pas, on a tout mangé !!!)

Nota : pour les baies (cassis etc), il faut les faire éclater au feu, puis les passer au moulin à légumes avant de peser.

SOURCE
Recette de la Maman de Laurence

-----------------------------------------------------
*Its recipe is pectin-free, someone give that a try?
*It took me half an hour to figure out the french:mix->boil->stir->pour & freeze overnight->cut & roll in sugar & dry
(Strange, Maman de Laurence would freeze the PDF. I remember Steve said that would cause weeping? I don't know Laurence's Mom yet so I can't ask her.)

And Steve,

Thank You! Now I got a better idea~

Perhaps you've already heard this but the recipe doesn't specify to "freeze;" rather, you must cool overnight in the refrigerator.

I noticed that the recipe calls for "sucre cristal." Here in the US, sucre cristal comes with something called "carnauba wax" which I think must be used to polish and give a shine to the sugar crystals. Is this the same in France? Or does the French version omit the wax?

Thanks.

[Halois]

Hi, I'm new to eGullet so excuse me if I say something ridiculously idiotic.

I've been following this blog for a while because I've wanted to make pates for Valentines day. I've also tried twice using a recipe from the French Laundry. It hasn't worked.

I used light corn syrup, granulated sugar, Knox unflavored pectin, apples, lychees, peaches, and oranges, and lemon juice for citric acid. Unfortunately after everytime I make them, they 'weep'. They set very well and were firm but moist.

They keep weeping! I toss them in sugar and in a few minutes they turn into sugary ooze. Does anyone know why this might be happening?

[John DePaula]

Hi, I'm new to eGullet so excuse me if I say something ridiculously idiotic.

I've been following this blog for a while because I've wanted to make pates for Valentines day. I've also tried twice using a recipe from the French Laundry. It hasn't worked.

I used light corn syrup, granulated sugar, Knox unflavored pectin, apples, lychees, peaches, and oranges, and lemon juice for citric acid. Unfortunately after everytime I make them, they 'weep'. They set very well and were firm but moist.

They keep weeping! I toss them in sugar and in a few minutes they turn into sugary ooze. Does anyone know why this might be happening?

Are you really using Pectin or is it gelatin(e)?

I suppose your thermometer could be off... I have 4 or 5 in the kitchen and they all read differently in the same container of whatever.

Are you measuring Brix? Should be ok if you take it up to 75BRIX.

[Halois]

Thank you for your reply!

My box says pectin. And I've actually been using two types, this kind and apple pectin (certo liquid). Same effect on both. EDIT: (I've tried two more times since my last post.) I don't actually have a refractometer since they are so expensive, so I can't say much about brix.

How many minutes (rough estimate) do you generally cook your mixture after it reaches 106-107º?

Hi, I'm new to eGullet so excuse me if I say something ridiculously idiotic.

I've been following this blog for a while because I've wanted to make pates for Valentines day. I've also tried twice using a recipe from the French Laundry. It hasn't worked.

I used light corn syrup, granulated sugar, Knox unflavored pectin, apples, lychees, peaches, and oranges, and lemon juice for citric acid. Unfortunately after everytime I make them, they 'weep'. They set very well and were firm but moist.

They keep weeping! I toss them in sugar and in a few minutes they turn into sugary ooze. Does anyone know why this might be happening?

Are you really using Pectin or is it gelatin(e)?

I suppose your thermometer could be off... I have 4 or 5 in the kitchen and they all read differently in the same container of whatever.

Are you measuring Brix? Should be ok if you take it up to 75BRIX.

Edited by Halois, 12 February 2008 - 07:09 PM.

[Kerry Beal]

Thank you for your reply!

My box says pectin. And I've actually been using two types, this kind and apple pectin (certo liquid). Same effect on both. EDIT: (I've tried two more times since my last post.) I don't actually have a refractometer since they are so expensive, so I can't say much about brix.

How many minutes (rough estimate) do you generally cook your mixture after it reaches 106-107º?

Hi, I'm new to eGullet so excuse me if I say something ridiculously idiotic.

I've been following this blog for a while because I've wanted to make pates for Valentines day. I've also tried twice using a recipe from the French Laundry. It hasn't worked.

I used light corn syrup, granulated sugar, Knox unflavored pectin, apples, lychees, peaches, and oranges, and lemon juice for citric acid. Unfortunately after everytime I make them, they 'weep'. They set very well and were firm but moist.

They keep weeping! I toss them in sugar and in a few minutes they turn into sugary ooze. Does anyone know why this might be happening?

Are you really using Pectin or is it gelatin(e)?

I suppose your thermometer could be off... I have 4 or 5 in the kitchen and they all read differently in the same container of whatever.

Are you measuring Brix? Should be ok if you take it up to 75BRIX.

At 107 C the brix is usually pretty close to 75, so if you don't have a refractometer, you just go with the temperature. But if you are still having problems perhaps go up a degree or two.

[gap]

For what its worth most of my PDFs go to 106 C. I also test them by leaving a plate in the freezer while I'm cooking the PDF. Before I take the PDF of the heat, dab a bit on the cold plate and make sure it doesn't "flow" out - it should hold its shape (nb: not a lot of time to do this testing, need to be quick because everything keeps cooking).

[prairiegirl]

I hve made only a few batches of pdf and yesterday I made a 1/2 batch using the passion fruit Borion recipe. I found that the puree was burning on the very bottom of my pot. I was stirring and I was using a high heat. What temperature should my stove be at? Should I use medium-high heat, or medium, or ?. My kids were asking me what is burning as my whole house had a burnt odour!! I did pour the unburnt part into a tray and today they seem quite good. Another question is what brand and model of refractometer do you recommend? I would appreciate all and any advice.
Thanks.
Deb.

[John DePaula]

I hve made only a few batches of pdf and yesterday I made a 1/2 batch using the passion fruit Borion recipe.  I found that the puree was burning on the very bottom of my pot.  I was stirring and I was using a high heat.  What temperature should my stove be at? Should I use medium-high heat, or medium, or ?.  My kids were asking me what is burning as my whole house had a burnt odour!!  I did pour the unburnt part into a tray and today they seem quite good. Another question is what brand and model of refractometer do you recommend?  I would appreciate all and any advice.
Thanks.
Deb.

The Boiron recipe is tricky. You really do have to keep stirring vigorously and constantly to keep the apricot puree from burning. I use a medium high heat but you have have to adjust for your own equipment. I also use a heavy copper-clad pot and that can certainly make all the difference.

Unless you're doing this professionally, I don't think the cost of a refractometer is justified. Instead, I recommend a good thermometer like a $25 Polder. If I cook it to the right temperature, it's *always* at the right BRIX (refractometer index).

[prairiegirl]

I will be doing it professionally and will gladly pay the price for a good refractometer. I just bought a laser infrared thermometer for $100 and I can't believe I went this long without one.

[John DePaula]

I will be doing it professionally and will gladly pay the price for a good refractometer. I just bought a laser infrared thermometer for $100 and I can't believe I went this long without one.

Mine is a Sper Scientific and I think I got it at jbprince.