323 replies to this topic

[Lindacakes]

Does anyone have a recipe or advice on tracking down the elusive delicious fruit jelly?

I don't mean jelly in the jam sense . . .

The best ones I ever had were bought in Venice -- shaped like the fruit they tasted like, about the size of a small plum, covered with a very fine coating of very fine sugar, so that they appeared . . . frosted. Beautiful transparent colors. And subtle flavors, nothing easily identified.

I've searched the Internet for already made ones and came up with this --
http://www.payard.com/prodslist10.php

Not a candy many people go for, I suppose, but I love them.

[John DePaula]

Did you mean this?
Payard Pates de fruits

You can order this online and they'll deliver anywhere in the US.

This thread on Pates de fruits may be interesting (I'm sure there are others as well): Pates de fruits

[Lkfarkas]

I *love* these things. Hmmm. I'm going to check out the thread. I'd like to make them too!

[Lindacakes]

Thank you, John, the thread is very interesting. Your link to Payard doesn't work for me, but I'm sure it's the same thing -- I might go there this weekend and get some; just talking about them has made me hungry for them.

The "tablet" form, though, is nothing like the delightful miniature fruit shapes found in Venice, but I suppose this is the tantilization that gives us hope -- just knowing that the idea exists, we can strive for it.

Speaking of which, your chocolates are exquisite.

[Trishiad]

Lindacakes, you can get the fruit shaped molds from Chef Rubber

[duckduck]

Are you looking to buy them or make them? I have a recipe but I haven't found the money for a flexpan for making the flower shaped ones. They've been on my long to do list.

[Lindacakes]

Ah, Chef Rubber, well, that gives a person ideas, all sorts of ideas.

I was thinking make, but truly, I'd prefer to buy.

But I get these ideas in my head, of how it could be. I was disappointed to go to the chocolate show. In my mind, there were fountains of chocolate burbling away, and everything a deep mysterious dark brown, and Sophia Loren-like women with mesmeric cleavage would offer you trays of the most delicate and exquisite chocolates.

And, of course, it wasn't like that at all.

Flower shaped fruit jellies would be beautiful.

[ghost]

Forgive my odd style of typing up a recipe, but you should be able to follow it. I believe this makes about 240, 1 square inch jellies.

Strawberry Jellies

1. 6 quart strained strawberry puree
2. 13 ounces strained apple juice
3. 1 cup glucose
4. 7 ½ cups sugar
5. ¾ cups sugar
6. 5 tablespoons pectin powder
7. 1 cups sugar
8. 1 teaspoon citric acid

Combine ingredients 1, 2, 3, 4 and bring to a boil.

Combine ingredients 5 and 6 in a bowl and temper with some of the hot liquid. Whisk the tempered pectin mixture into the remaining puree. Boil for 1 minute.

Take 2 half-sheet pans and pour hot puree onto the pans and let cool. Cut the hardened jellies into 1 square inch pieces. Roll the jellies in a mixture of ingredients 7 and 8.

[duckduck]

Demarle has a cute flower mold and the recipe is in their book for the perfect amount to fill their pan. It's the one I keep going back to as the one on the top of my wish list. It might be fun to make custom molds for it too.

[Ke Kau]

Hello all! I've been a long time reader of the forums but this is the first time I've ever posted. I'd like to take a moment before I get into my question to say thank you to everyone who participates in this forum. Your willingness to share your experiences is greatly appreciated. I only hope that some day I wil be able to offer the same wisdom and energy I've gleamed from reading these pages. Thank you again. Now to the question:

I'm working with a pate de fruit recipe from the Jean Pierre Wybauw book and it states in the instructions to cook to 225 F. I cooked and cooked but never got above 205 F. Although, in other recipes I have read, it says to cook till "stringy" or "pearls on a whisk" which I definately went past. I also kept stirring the puree (is this right?) for fear of scorching and I am afraid that I did not achieve that Pate de fruit consistency I so love. The jelly set fine, despite the lower cooking temperature and the fact I forgot to add the citric acid solution at the end. I'm assuming the mango puree contained enough acid to set the pectin. I'm using a pate de fruit pectin I purchased form chef rubber and I used 25 g for 1 k of puree and 1100 g of sugar with 200 g of corn syrup.

Another consideration is my higher altitude (Eugene, OR). I'm unsure of the exact calculations for altitude temperature conversions.

Any help is appreciated.

Shane Tracey

[Patrick S]

Another consideration is my higher altitude (Eugene, OR). I'm unsure of the exact calculations for altitude temperature conversions.

The "official" altitude of Eugene is 130 meters asl. The boiling point of water at 130 meters is 210.6F/99.27C. You'd have to be about 1km asl before the boiling point would be 205. Did your fruit mixture ever boil?

[nightscotsman]

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

[Ke Kau]

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

I'm using a laser thermometer from Thermoworks. Fairly reliable piece of equipment. The battery power was low though. That might have been my problem.

In response to the other post:

The mixture did boil. I will replace the batteries and try again tonight.

Shane

[SweetSide]

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

I'm using a laser thermometer from Thermoworks. Fairly reliable piece of equipment. The battery power was low though. That might have been my problem.

In response to the other post:

The mixture did boil. I will replace the batteries and try again tonight.

Shane

Laser as in infrared? There is another thread out HERE that discusses the use of infrared thermometers and use in sugar work. In addition to your batteries, that may be part of the problem.

[John DePaula]

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

I'm using a laser thermometer from Thermoworks. Fairly reliable piece of equipment. The battery power was low though. That might have been my problem.
Shane

Ouch! I think these aren't recommended for sugar work (ironically) because of the difference in surface temp/internal temp. I think someone recommended the Taylor Classic Candy Thermometer in another thread.

[stscam]

I'm working with a pate de fruit recipe from the Jean Pierre Wybauw book and it states in the instructions to cook to 225 F.  I cooked and cooked but never got above 205 F.  Although, in other recipes I have read, it says to cook till "stringy" or "pearls on a whisk" which I definately went past.  I also kept stirring the puree (is this right?) for fear of scorching and I am afraid that I did not achieve that  Pate de fruit consistency I so love.  The jelly set fine, despite the lower cooking temperature and the fact I forgot to add the citric acid solution at the end.  I'm assuming the mango puree contained enough acid to set the pectin.  I'm using a pate de fruit pectin I purchased form chef rubber and I used 25 g for 1 k of puree and 1100 g of sugar with 200 g of corn syrup. 

Shane, your recipe seems right. At what point in the process does Wybauw tell you add the pectin? Some recipes add it near the start, some near the finish.

The most consistent formulas I've found come from the Boirons Purees website. They add the pectin early on.

We now use a refractometer to measure Brix, but used to just measure the temps cited in the brochure.

We used (and still use for the first few minutes of cooking the fruit) a $20-30 two-piece digital probe thermometer. We got a cheap "bulldog" clamp at Staples which lets us leave the probe in the mixture, even while stirring. We can constantly monitor the temp this way.

Some fruits seem to resist going higher than 205-210F without burning. But as long as the stuff seems like it's beginning to gel then it'll probably turn out all right.

And don't stop stirring for more than a few seconds at a time.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Steve

Edited by stscam, 22 March 2006 - 03:53 PM.

[Ke Kau]

I'm working with a pate de fruit recipe from the Jean Pierre Wybauw book and it states in the instructions to cook to 225 F.  I cooked and cooked but never got above 205 F.  Although, in other recipes I have read, it says to cook till "stringy" or "pearls on a whisk" which I definately went past.   I also kept stirring the puree (is this right?) for fear of scorching and I am afraid that I did not achieve that  Pate de fruit consistency I so love.  The jelly set fine, despite the lower cooking temperature and the fact I forgot to add the citric acid solution at the end.  I'm assuming the mango puree contained enough acid to set the pectin.  I'm using a pate de fruit pectin I purchased form chef rubber and I used 25 g for 1 k of puree and 1100 g of sugar with 200 g of corn syrup. 

Shane, your recipe seems right. At what point in the process does Wybauw tell you add the pectin? Some recipes add it near the start, some near the finish.

The most consistent formulas I've found come from the Boirons Purees website. They add the pectin early on.

We now use a refractometer to measure Brix, but used to just measure the temps cited in the brochure.

We used (and still use for the first few minutes of cooking the fruit) a $20-30 two-piece digital probe thermometer. We got a cheap "bulldog" clamp at Staples which lets us leave the probe in the mixture, even while stirring. We can constantly monitor the temp this way.

Some fruits seem to resist going higher than 205-210F without burning. But as long as the stuff seems like it's beginning to gel then it'll probably turn out all right.

And don't stop stirring for more than a few seconds at a time.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Steve

Thanks Steve. The recipe dictates adding the pectin to a quantity of 500g puree. And adding that portion to the rest of the puree and sugar. Is there a scientific reasoning behind this? And what woud the outcome be adding the pectin at the end? Also, when adding citric acid solution, I assume it is added at the end.....What would be the chemical changes if it were added in the beginning versus the end?

You say some fruits resist cooking higher than 205-210? Which fruits in your experience? What is the reasoning behind this phenomenon?

Thanks,

Shane

[boulak]

Brother Shane,
Good to see you contributing to egullet. Your skill, knowledge, drive, and expertise will fit in well. Now if you'd just harness that energy towards.................well, bread for example.

Best regards,
Mitch

[stscam]

[/quote]The recipe dictates adding the pectin to a quantity of 500g puree. And adding that portion to the rest of the puree and sugar. Is there a scientific reasoning behind this? And what woud the outcome be adding the pectin at the end? Also, when adding citric acid solution, I assume it is added at the end.....What would be the chemical changes if it were added in the beginning versus the end?

You say some fruits resist cooking higher than 205-210? Which fruits in your experience? What is the reasoning behind this phenomenon?

[/quote]


When I got home last night I checked my Wybauw and saw that he mixes his pectin/sugar into half the the puree. I'm not sure why, but our method is not much different. Our formula calls for heating 1000g of puree to about 100F, then adding the pectin/sugar. When the mixture reaches 190F (it's on the boil now) we begin to add the rest of the sugar, in 4-5 portions. When it start boiling again we add the glucose/corn syrup. At this point we remove the digital probe and go the rest of the way with the refractometer. When we hit 72-75 Brix we turn the heat off and add the citric acid. Adding the acid any earlier would mitigate its effectiveness.

I'm kind of a hands-on guy, and must confess I don't always understand the science behind these processes. Thus, I can't tell you, technically, what happens chemically if you add the pectin late. LeNotre calls for this technique. What I can say is that the method outlined above works well and consistently for us and after a long period of abject failures a couple of years ago, I'm not too inclined to gamble with our current successes.

As for fruits that resist higher temps - strawberries would be at the top of my list. I should add here that all our pates are made with fresh, local fruit that we puree ourselves. Fresh Strawbs require close, close attention, as they seem to thicken up more quickly than other fruits, and are prone to burning more easily. Peaches have been a problem, and some melons. Sorry, but I don't why.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Cheers,

Steve

[Ke Kau]

[quote name='stscam' date='Mar 23 2006, 11:04 AM']
[/quote]The recipe dictates adding the pectin to a quantity of 500g puree. And adding that portion to the rest of the puree and sugar. Is there a scientific reasoning behind this? And what woud the outcome be adding the pectin at the end? Also, when adding citric acid solution, I assume it is added at the end.....What would be the chemical changes if it were added in the beginning versus the end?

You say some fruits resist cooking higher than 205-210? Which fruits in your experience? What is the reasoning behind this phenomenon?

[/quote]


When I got home last night I checked my Wybauw and saw that he mixes his pectin/sugar into half the the puree. I'm not sure why, but our method is not much different. Our formula calls for heating 1000g of puree to about 100F, then adding the pectin/sugar. When the mixture reaches 190F (it's on the boil now) we begin to add the rest of the sugar, in 4-5 portions. When it start boiling again we add the glucose/corn syrup. At this point we remove the digital probe and go the rest of the way with the refractometer. When we hit 72-75 Brix we turn the heat off and add the citric acid. Adding the acid any earlier would mitigate its effectiveness.

I'm kind of a hands-on guy, and must confess I don't always understand the science behind these processes. Thus, I can't tell you, technically, what happens chemically if you add the pectin late. LeNotre calls for this technique. What I can say is that the method outlined above works well and consistently for us and after a long period of abject failures a couple of years ago, I'm not too inclined to gamble with our current successes.

As for fruits that resist higher temps - strawberries would be at the top of my list. I should add here that all our pates are made with fresh, local fruit that we puree ourselves. Fresh Strawbs require close, close attention, as they seem to thicken up more quickly than other fruits, and are prone to burning more easily. Peaches have been a problem, and some melons. Sorry, but I don't why.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Cheers,

Steve

[/quote]


Last night I made a batch of Moro Blood Orange and Meyer Lemon. Both cooked nicely to 225. I think since both batches consisted mainly of juice I didn't have any problems. Thanks for all your input.

Shane

[NutMeg]

Just to add another 2 cents, when I make it, I warm the puree, then add the pectin (mixed with about a quarter of the sugar) - when that boils, I add the sugar and glucose. I cook up to about 215, then start testing on a plate that's been in the freezer. I put a drop on the plate, stick it back in the freezer for a minute, then touch it - when it's firm and no longer (or very barely) sticky to the touch, it's done. Also, you have to stir constantly or risk scorching. I add the citric acid once it's off the heat. Different fruits are done at different temps, so the plate trick really works.

[McAuliflower]

When makng this with just juice- no fruit puree (have blood orange juice on hand), do the amounts of sugar/pectin change significantly?

looking to make up a small batch at home...

[Ke Kau]

When makng this with just juice- no fruit puree (have blood orange juice on hand), do the amounts of sugar/pectin change significantly?

looking to make up a small batch at home...

The batch I made came out just fine with no changes in the recipe. I think the recipe I gave you would have a sufficient amount of pectin from the apricots to gel.

In general I believe a standard recipe without apricots or apples would be equal portions of fruit pulp (or juice) to sugar. As for pectin I'm not sure what a standard percentage would be.

[Truffle Guy]

When makng this with just juice- no fruit puree (have blood orange juice on hand), do the amounts of sugar/pectin change significantly?

looking to make up a small batch at home...

You might want to watch the amount of sugar in the juice and add less if it is too sweet. Most of the juices I've tried have been sweeter than purees. Other than that everything should work fine.

[McAuliflower]

thanks for all the input- off to the kitchen...

[ncorrigbl]

could someone pleast put a recipe up for a home cook to make these? I have had some incredible ones and hae been dying to make them and experiment with flavors. Also, where can I find the apple pectin? Every google search brings up health food stores that have them in capsules.
Thanks

[achevres]

I found these three:

From Martha Stewart, with a source for the pure pectin:
Pear Cranberry Pate de fruits

From Emeril Lagasse:
Pineapple-Lime pate de fruits

From Jacques Torres, using only applesauce:
Pate de Fruit

[ncorrigbl]

THANK YO SO MUCH!!!!

[Sararwelch]

I tried the Jacques Torres recipe using applesauce and I couldn't get it to set up. Plus it was unbelievably sweet. I may have done something wrong in terms of the cooking process, but the sugar content seems high.

[A Patric]

Hello all,

For all of you who have experience making (and eating) pate de fruit, and know the difference between excellent quality and sub-par products, I am wondering if you can steer me toward a few companies in the US that make some of the best pate de fruit and ship it nationwide?

I truly understand that one must pay for the highest quality items, and I am willing to do so, but no "Nokas" of the pate de fruit world please.

Thank you in advance for your help!