Eating the Northwest

[Johnathon]

Day Three, Monday morning begins with a leisurely sleep-in after the amazing dinner at Araxi the evening before and then blends into the drive home from Whistler to Vancouver. Except for a coffee (or two) there was absolutely no room for breakfast, brunch or an early lunch. Once back in town and unpacked the day belonged to leisure and making a reservation at Feenie’s.

Called Feenie’s around 3pm to see if they could fit a reservation in for 7pm. I knew this was going to be a bit difficult as Lumiere and their bar side dining lounge is closed on Monday’s and Feenie’s is enjoying a steady stream of guests from all of it’s recent accolades. The hostess was kind and considerate and managed to squeeze me into a table in the Red Bar area but stipulated that it was reserved at 8:30pm. No problem.

I actually really appreciate when the host/hostess stipulates that there are others waiting for the table later on and still accommodate you as best they can. The downside of course is that if you are having a great time you don’t want to leave! The upside is that if you can’t stand the place, there is nothing keeping you there either.

I attended the opening of this restaurant and loved what I saw in the way of décor. Although, for obvious reasons, none of the tables were in place to see how it would be laid out so a future visit was definitely in order. Someone on the Feenie’s thread said it reminded him or her of Salt in Sydney. Salt is a killer restaurant for décor, simple and elegant with finished details that are extremely architectural in form and function. But Salt is extreme in it’s monochromatic scheme of neutral gray, whites and silver. Feenie’s is robust in the warm and rich red tones of the bar area. The high banquettes and the color palette in the main dining area borrow from some SF hotspots and the whole package has a not-so-subtle nod to the recent design ideals of some NY eateries.

Design and décor have always been a subjective thing. And subjectively speaking, I love the look of this room and everything about it. As a photographer and a designer, aesthetics is the first kiss of life or death upon entering an establishment and I was eager to see if the food, drink, service and ambience were up to task to compete with this modern material endowed room with brash and proud color schemes splitting it’s rooms into two succinct feelings of emotion and comfort.

The host this evening was Warren whom was given the task of running Feenie’s after doing wonderful work at Lumiere. A consummate gentleman who is always attentive to the wants and needs of the guest. In regards to professionalism, I would place him in the higher end of a short list of great front-of-the-house people.

Started with a glass of bubbles, Stellar Jay Brut ’99 by Sumac Ridge. I have always been a fan of the bubble and can think of no better reason to pop the cork on a bottle of bubble than a Monday evening. Which means any time is bubble time!

I am not a huge fan of fizzy bar drinks and the bar at Feenie’s offers a wide selection of these, so opting for sparkling was a better choice for me. For now.

First plate was the Warm Peach and Prosciutto Salad with Arugula, David Woods’ Goat Cheese and Candied Walnuts. In one lip-smacking word, yummy. If I have to find fault it would be that the walnuts were a bit too sweet. But like I said, only if I had to find fault, which ultimately became a matter of personal taste, my dining companion thought they were just right. Perfect on a warm summer day, as the peaches were sweetly divine and juicy. If the rest of the charcuterie on the menu is any clue, the Prosciutto is more than likely from Oyama Sausage Co. on Granville Island. Delicious.

Ahi Tuna Tartare with Sesame Seeds, Cilantro and Tamarind Glaze. This dish was beautiful on the plate and the glaze complimented the tuna in a sweet bath of hints of spice as the roe on top created another layer of texture to enjoy in each bite.

Next was a glass of Bouchard Pere et Fils, Les Thivaux, Ruilly 2000. This wine with its nose of pear, a taste of mild blue cheese and sticky finish made for a great glass of wine. I love this wine and I knew it was on the list at Lumiere. Even though Lumiere was closed for the night (Rob was taping another episode of his show), Warren once again displayed his charm as a gracious host and offered to go and get me a glass from next door. I don’t know if he is supposed to do this or not, so don’t go saying “Well, you did it for Johnathon…” All I know is that it was deeply appreciated by me.

Time to tear into the Prix Fixe now and start with the Tomato Confit Tart with Caramelized Onions and Goat Cheese. The acidity in the tomato and balsamic below with the smooth creaminess of the cheese were well balanced to compete with each other as a pastry tart carried the textures through. The onions provided a hint of sweetness as well. I really enjoyed this tart and am looking forward to trying it again.

Duck Confit and Caramelized Apples with Lentils du Puy, aged Sherry and Frisée Salad. Duck Confit is one of my top ten things to order when traveling to see how the restaurant treats their particular confit. i honestly believe i tried twenty different confits in Quebec City alone. (The Crab Cake as well, still searching the world for the perfect crab cake!). This confit was glorious. I know many people will say “Come on, it’s only confit!” but, in my mind this was the best dish of the day and it was perfect. The delicate crispy skin was cooked perfectly and the meat of the duck evaporated on the tongue. I would be very curious to find out how long they aged the duck, as most restaurants seem to turn them out after a week or so. But this confit had all the character and taste notes of a well-aged confit. It was perfect. The caramelized apples provided a sweet late summer, intro to early fall feel for the dish coupled with very tasty lentils.

This was all followed up with a slice of blue cheese by Bénédictin, Québec. Lovely crisp tang on the tongue from this creamy blue cheese.

Dessert was passed over, as I needed to respect the fact that the table was booked for another party soon. Besides, I needed a walk on this very beautiful evening. I will definitely be going back to Feenie’s and frequently. Vancouver is an extremely fickle dining crowd and will always traverse to the latest and greatest. Feenie’s is the talk of the town, but for all the right reasons. It is hip, it is chic and it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. You can spend as little or as much as you want and have a great time in a very sexy room. This city can never have enough of this caliber of fun and food.

I am quite curious to hear and see how the bar side of Lumiere and the dining room of Lumiere are making out now that so many people seem to be swarming Feenie’s. So I booked a table for Friday night at Lumiere to see for myself.

[edm]

having West and Lumiere as flagships of the local gastronomy is a sad sign for Vancouver...

[Coop]

edm: As Desi Arnez used to say "Lucy! you got some splaining to do". Please enlighten us as to why you feel this way?

[edm]

Although those places might feel like a bargain for wealthy americans, i do think that they're usually overpriced for what they have to offer. To get food that is properly seasoned and made from good produce is just a start, not an accomplishment. When spending 100-150 dollars on a meal, i expect it to be memorable, and i can only put up with little mistakes.

Lumiere used to be a good deal 5 years ago, when the tasting menu was about 75 bucks and the room half empty (when it didnt feel like being a anchovy packed in a tin).

A night at Diva last year was a total joke. Although the room was nearly empty, the waiter (who had been working there for 5 years) still managed to forget my amuse and bring my glass of red wine 5 mn after i got my venison, and so on...

Some of my friends were totally overlooked and poorly treated when going to Ouest and Sooke harbour house...

Maybe we should just blaim ourselves for being locals, 25 years old and not wearing an Armani suit ?

[Coop]

edm: I remember what it was like when my wife and I were young and eating out. I have to admit we did not get the kind of service we get now in our 40's. In fact we pretty much abandoned the idea of eating out in the city and started travelling to Seattle for good meals. The only place we could count on great food and service was the Cafe de Paris. that probably is why the place still causes warm feelings for us, even after some pretty bad meals in the last few years.

I'm surprised you got that kind of service at West. They seem to have a pretty eclectic crowd, and they seem to look after everyone pretty well from whatr I had heard until now. As for the pricing in these places, I think for the experience you get it's pretty damned responsible. As a side note try Cru great food and service for a very fair price.

Oh yeah your not the first to compalin about Diva at the Met.

[Johnathon]

I too can recount the all too many times of dining in my early twenties and being shrugged off as someone who didn't know the difference between a Bordeaux and a Claret.

The difference of course is that a good restaurant treats all their guests the same way, at the highest level the restaurant can set as a bar for themselves. This should and must extend to every single guest, table and group dining in that restaurant. From my experiences West has always maintained this professionalism to all their guests, regardless of an Armani suit being worn or not. If you receive poor service or mistreatment from the wait staff, go to the manager and point it out. Maybe they need more help on the floor? Maybe they are understaffed? If the Chef/Owner of any restaurant get complaints of service on a regular basis, then they must and hopefully should take action. Great food is great food but if it is delivered in an unprofessional manner, this is what will taint our view for future visits.

I received abhorant behaviour from a waiter at db Bistro in NYC. After the meal, I went to the manager, the hostess, the bus boy and the bartender and gave each of them a cash tip as the waiter watched. I let the manager know that everything else was wonderful but the waiter was a complete ass. This is the most extreme action I have ever taken in a restaurant to make a point but believe me it was both justified and worth it.

I am neither wealthy nor American and I find the bang for your buck in food quality in Vancouver to be an exceptional bargain. You can go to Earl's or The Keg and spend $25 on a reasonably prepared steak and pile of mashed starch or you can go to West or the Lumiere bar side lounge and order two plates off the small menu/bar lists and have your taste buds rocked.

No contest here. As diners, we have the upper hand in this deal.

[edm]

Coming from Europe and being a chef, i have a very different idea of what a good meal should be in a high-end restaurant. i feel like Vancouver doesn' t have a solid craftsmanship and lack integrity, and that creativity in that context can only be disorientated (to say the least ! ).

As for prices, selling a chicken breast for 25 dollars is totally ridiculous. I find that many places will provide you bistro cuisine in a fancy surrounding and want you to believe they're blessing you with a 3* experience.

Truth is, the restaurant industry here is a real business. And you can tell.

High prices, low standards. No passion, no integrity. And the only feeling you keep walking away is that you've been ripped-off in style...

I havent tried Cru yet. The place looks nice, but forgive me if a duck confit doesnt do it for me. I'm also doubtful about the oversimplified wine list. I'm convinced that it is not the right approach.

I went to Victoria a couple of weeks ago. Parks closures keeping me away from the outdoors, my vacations turned out to be more of a culinary tour.

And i think that you can eat as well, if not better, in greater Victoria than in Vancouver...

I had diner at Cafe Brio, really enjoyed the room, the very warm and sympathetic staff, the knowledgeable owner who takes great care of his wine list and who'll spend time with you figuring out your taste and mood to come up with the best match for what you've ordered. I had an excellent evening. Cooking and seasoning of the produce were under control, and you got the feeling that people working there were really enthousiastic and serious about what their profession.

Lunch at Zambri's was really nice. Coutryside italian bistro cuisine. Simple and very flavourful fare. My friend had a duck ragu with sage for 9 bucks, and i felt truly happy to find this european bistro atmosphere, where workers from around come for a satisfying and unpretentious meal. Ah, yes, that was great and got me nostalgic. Their 5-course tasting menu on saturday nights are without doubt worth a try.

Spinnakers brew pub offers a great getaway from downtown Victoria.

Good traditional brunch, and a pub fare that's conscious about produce, getting most of his veg from the island, wild fish and free-range poultry.

For my last trip, i went to The aerie for lunch. Had some really good salt spring lamb, perfectly cooked, and could only look at the tasting menus with curiousity and envy. If anyone has had a meal there, please let me know about your experience.

What i really appreciate when eating on the island is the authenticity and generosity of restaurateurs. They also seem to be commited to local produce and very organized as a community. The food is comparable to what you'd find in Vancouver, but the passion perspires. And that's contagious.

Food wise, Vancouver is a very self-centered and self-satisfied city. I'd like to see chefs more humble and working on getting better. Cooking is a mode of expression and can be taken to the level of art (the most satisfying one ). So please, get out there in the woods, on the ocean, in the mountains. Open your eyes, get inspired by the unlimited natural wonders of British Columbia, think it over, and stop black-boxing your menus.

Interpretate. Cultivate a terroir and drop the duck confit !

[Johnathon]

I must say that I am very impressed to hear of a 25 year old chef from Europe, or anywhere for that matter, speak so highly about solid craftsmanship, integrity and passion and to equate the process as an expression to be respected as an art, is music to my ears.

And to deliver it as a challenge to the current crop of chefs here in Vancouver is even more so. Are you working at any restaurants here or plan to open anything? I for one would love to experience what you would offer to the local terroir as an answer to your concerns about Vancouver's self-centered and self satisfied dining scene. If your cooking is anything like your passion to find great food at great prices, we would all benefit!

Any response from the local chefs out there?

[D. Peckham]

I would like to reply. I think that if someone that is 25 years old and has it all figured out is great, I'm not one to down someone's opinoins and thoughts about the restaurant industry because it's a learning process and never quite learn everything. That said your comments about the state of the restaurant industry here in Vancouver is completely fogged. In europe as I'm sure you know , eating out and even at home is a way of life, always has been and will always be. It's not like that here in Vancouver for the majority of people who enjoy the restaurants available. The restaurants in Vancouver are focused on the buisness aspect because they have to , they profit margin for most places is slim to none but when the product suffers I agree is not the best situation for anyone. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of passionate cooks and chefs in this city. I'm not sure where you work but the people I know are concerned about learning , progressing and serving customers better , because I for one knows that it's the customers that pay the bill when all is said and done. I've worked and lived in Victoria and no doubt there are some quality places to dine there at a reasonable price but you have to understand that the prices in most cases are comprimised because the customers are less inclined to eat out on a regular basis then even here in Vancouver. I think that if you don't like the way that things are here then change it for the better the way that you see it and see if it works.

[edm]

I intend to bring my cards to the game, indeed. Because criticizing has te be the first step to improvement.

I dont think i said i had it all figured out. But i do have an idea of what a restaurant should provide. This is my profession, and i take it seriously.

A good restaurant, regardless of its class, has to be driven by passion, authenticity and a strong willingness to share a contagious love for food and wine. Whenever that's not the case, the experience is a failure.

It seems to me that restaurants in France suffer way more taxes. But you can still find wonderful bistros where you'll eat for 10 euros...

There's a major difference here : people in France rarely consider investing in a restaurant a "financial investment". It's their trade, and as cooking is very personal in some ways, they want to open their own place.

I'm happy that there are some passionate chefs out there; i never doubted it. Any passionate waiter though ?

Edited October 4, 2003 by edm (log)

[edm]

Johnathon : Yes i'm currently working as a chef in Vancouver. But i do not have the opportunity to express myself there.

I do have ideas and projects though. But it will take a couple of years (best case scenario !) before these thoughts materialize. 200 000 dollars, anyone ?

I recently arrived to Vancouver. It's sometimes hard to understand local customs, needs, lacks. But the beauty of BC speaks to me loudly, and that's fortunate.

I still have to learn about local produce. What kind of shellfish, fish, meat can be bought fresh. There's many produce that i'm not used to work with, and it takes time to figure them all out. When they're on season, the best and most efficient way to cook them, who to get them from...

That's why i'm hoping to head to the Gulf islands next spring to tame the soil, learn and get to meet some good folks who get the soil at work !

Long process... but very promising...

My intent is not to get locals all pumped up by my posts. I just want to see things improving, people getting together, debating and taking actions. Let's put at least a good bakery in every neighbourhood... Ah, good bread !

Edited October 4, 2003 by edm (log)

[d.hawksworth]

EDM

Where did you work in Europe ?

[edm]

Hi David,

i worked in France. I'm a "maudit francais" !

[M'd]

I agree with many remarks from EDM. I share the same frustration with our current social definition of success. Dining rooms are not places to get rich in, but they can be places to market your wears like any tradesman would. We should really get over "the big show" and learn to appreciate the artisan level of the business.

But edm;

There are indeed passionate waiters here in BC Sir.

They are as rare as any greatly skilled professional is in any profession.

It is good to give respect to those from whom you have learned from, but please do not forget from where your success will likely be propagated.

You mention your distaste for "overly simplified wine lists" but maybe more words could be typed about how great the new world is in respect to leaving the garbled (and often fraudulant) labels for the under trained, passionless waiters and sommeliers to worry about.

The Old World (unified by currency or not) has many things to teach us, but smoking in a tasting room and pre-war edicate are mistakes we can learn from too.

Let's grow together, so that we can all experience your brilliance as you come of age.

Cheers to all that care enough to bitch.

M'd

[paul mitchell]

COunt me in as a rare passionate server. 16 years next month.

Take for example last night's service....we have a ceo of europe's largest canymaking companies, an IT diva who wants to kayak to the moon and back, a chic couple from Berkley who eat at Water's joint and the Laundry quite regularly and two really hot southern belle sisters - so like the Vancouver armani suit I should be focusing my attention driven by libido on the sisters but I like to spread myself around.

Ceo....the guy likes cheese - he had asked me the two previous nights on 2nd course about getting some cheese at the end - so last night I had "cheese wars" - I brought him one plate of Hilary Abbots, one of David Woods, one of Stilton and Chesire, along with a plate of the goddamn best goose berries, cherries and nectarines the Okanagan can put out - alongside this I served him another cheese creation from our dynamite sous chef Valerie - a confit of ruhbarb as the base with tiny rounds of strawberries, plum, nectarines, oranges with a Wood's goat cheese sorbet and vamilla tuile - as I brought one plate after the other his smile grew and grew - I gave him a glass of Cherry Point's blackberry port (in which one of Hilary's cheeses is made with), illy expresso and a glass of grappa - he looked at his family, then at me, then at his family, put his hand to his chest and said simply "My Heart"

IT diva....by grace of g-d I remembered that she drinks chardonnay - she stayed with us last year - I couldn't even tell you what the date is today - so I poured Mission Hill Family Estate Chardonnay and scoured pictures of her last visit and of her new dog.

Hot sisters....I can't even explain to you how hot they are and how difficult it is to focus my attention when at the table.....so a little backstory......candy ceo had a ten kilogram box of all his different types of candy sent to the resort yesterday morning for our staff - so I take those gummy cola bottle candies and put a couple of them on two big dinner plates and deliver it to the sister's table and tell them that the flavour of the wine they will be drinking is epitomized in the cola bottles - so with marinated spagetti squash salad with truffles, grilled quail and thyme jus I bring out Cedar Creek's Estate Pinot Noir - they laugh and smile - I feel like an oneophile stud - I also mention that Val had the decency and respect to cross the legs of the quails to keep their private parts private - much smirking and giddiness from the sisters - who says you have to wear armani with your beamer parked outside Lumiere to hit with the ladies.

Chic couple - they are in love - I offered to light a fire after everyone had left - they had eaten late as he had taken chivalry by the horns and rowed his girl across our private lake with a bottle of Red Rooster brut before dinner - they hummed and hawed over dessert about the fire - I returned to the table with a bottle of Delaforce LBV port with glasses and told them that I would not be lighting a fire and they should go directly to their room.

Such is my life as a passionate waiter - passing glasses of champagne to unexpecting kayakers as they paddle past the dock, doing ice tea pairings to each course for a pregnant lady last week or shucking five dozen pacific gem, chefs creek and kusshi oysters for a gentleman who said he loved nothing better than eating oysters the afternoon before.

If anyone has any contacts or is in need of a rare waiter I am on the lookout for a winter gig - I am available Oct 15th with bells on.

Paul

Edited July 13, 2004 by paul mitchell (log)

[jamiemaw]

EDM,

Where did you train professionally in France? And where do you cook now?

And please share with us what disappointed you when you dined at West and Lumiere?

[stovetop]

I am Canadian born and raised chef , never been to Europe, and I have no plans as yet to go, I am having problems just getting out of Canada, my family has been here for three hundred years, I am a 39 year old who has been cooking as a pro longer then I want to remember, I think I washed dishes and slinged burgers when I was about 15, somewhere around 79 and cooking in Canada has changed a lot since then.

My travels have taking me to TO twice, it was a 13 year gap between the two times living there. I was impressed with the variety of the Toronto scene in 2000, there was about 30 restaurants on Queen street and for about three blocks you would not see any similarities in the menus posted in the windows, this was an impresive thing for me to see, so much more variety and restaurant life compared to the Van scene in 2000

I am a chef and have worked many years before in the front of house, I have been a GM and chef and bottle washer, as a Canadian we do not feel it below us to get dirty in the pit, hell when you work in a small place you better get used to washing some dishes, from my personal experience, I have only seen a few Euros do that

You said:

“having West and Lumiere as flagships of the local gastronomy is a sad sign for Vancouver”

Who says these restaurants are the flag ship; they are just two of many types of restaurants in Vancouver???

“Although those places might feel like a bargain for wealthy americans, i do think that they're usually overpriced for what they have to offer”

My god if you come from TO they are a bargain, shop around, and check out the price difference.

“. Lumiere used to be a good deal 5 years ago, when the tasting menu was about 75 bucks and the room half empty (when it didnt feel like being a anchovy packed in a tin)”.

What the hell do people have with making some money and getting famous, why are we as Canadians so damb scared of success, I get the feeling we should all hide in a box???

“A night at Diva last year was a total joke. Although the room was nearly empty, the waiter (who had been working there for 5 years) still managed to forget my amuse and bring my glass of red wine 5 mn after i got my venison, and so on...

Some of my friends were totally overlooked and poorly treated when going to Ouest and Sooke harbour house...

Maybe we should just blaim ourselves for being locals, 25 years old and not wearing an Armani suit ?”

I will get my Armani suite

Ya, welcome to the Wet Coast, if you find a good waiter keep them!!!

“Coming from Europe and being a chef, i have a very different idea of what a good meal should be in a high-end restaurant. i feel like Vancouver doesn' t have a solid craftsmanship and lack integrity, and that creativity in that context can only be disorientated (to say the least “

Which side of house are we discussing here; from what you say, it is not that clear to me, sorry?????

“I had diner at Cafe Brio, really enjoyed the room, the very warm and sympathetic staff, the knowledgeable owner who takes great care of his wine list and who'll spend time with you figuring out your taste and mood to come up with the best match for what you've ordered. I had an excellent evening. Cooking and seasoning of the produce were under control, and you got the feeling that people working there were really enthousiastic and serious about what their profession. Lunch at Zambri's was really nice. Coutryside italian bistro cuisine. Simple and very flavourful fare. My friend had a duck ragu with sage for 9 bucks, and i felt truly happy to find this european bistro atmosphere, where workers from around come for a satisfying and unpretentious meal. Ah, yes, that was great and got me nostalgic. Their 5-urse tasting menu on saturday nights are without doubt worth a try.Spinnakers brew pub offers a great getaway from downtown Victoria. Good traditional brunch, and a pub fare that's conscious about produce, getting most of his veg from the island, wild fish and free-range poultry.

For my last trip, i went to The aerie for lunch. Had some really good salt spring lamb, perfectly cooked, and could only look at the tasting menus with curiousity and envy. If anyone has had a meal there, please let me know about your experience.

What i really appreciate when eating on the island is the authenticity and generosity of restaurateurs. They also seem to be commited to local produce and very organized as a community. The food is comparable to what you'd find in Vancouver, but the passion perspires. And that's contagious.

Food wise, Vancouver is a very self-centered and self-satisfied city. I'd like to see chefs more humble and working on getting better. Cooking is a mode of expression and can be taken to the level of art (the most satisfying one ). So please, get out there in the woods, on the ocean, in the mountains. Open your eyes, get inspired by the unlimited natural wonders of British Columbia, think it over, and stop black-boxing your menus.

Interpretate. Cultivate a terroir and drop the duck confit !

Yes I agree with your assessment about the island, it is why I now live on the Island; I am child like now, so much new things to learn, the whole Cowichan, Victoria, Sook, alerni alley, Tofino, Ucluet corridor is amazing.

This year has been crazy times for us BC restaurant people, BSE—Mad cow—911---chickens, techela shortages ( oh shit that was a few years ago); why then is the state still charging huge bucks, any way cost are hard to keep in line.

Local food rocks

I am looking forward to more insight into your chefing adventures, welcome to the wet coast

stovetop

[jackandjill]

EDM,

Are there any restaurants in Vancouver that you feel meet the standards that pointed out?

[jamiemaw]

edm

Welcome to Vancouver and to these hallowed halls.

i worked in France. I'm a "maudit francais"!

Or perhaps a mouche du coche?

For those of you unfamiliar with the parable, it refers to the French fly which, by biting the horse's rump, convinces himself that he's the one pulling the wagon.

As someone who eats out abroad with frequency, I think it's a fatuous game to compare a supposed lack of passion and integrity in this city (or in restaurant to restaurant within the city) with that available elsewhere. Having eaten my way through seven European cities and a fair bit of countryside this summer (and as a pretty regular commuter), I can assure you of several things:

1. For its mid-market size, Vancouver enjoys a disproportionate diversity and profusion of restaurants per capita. I would challenge anyone to find the former in a city of similar size in Europe.

2. Value on the plate compares favourably with all of the countries that we visited, with the exception of Estonia (where I met the beet, in all its many forms, at least twice a day), which was roughly equal. Your example of a $25 chicken breast is an interesting one--on the cusp of being too expensive, even in a fine dining room here. But consider London, where that same breast, at the currency equivalent of 10 pounds Sterling, would be an outright bargain, and in a fine dining room, impossible to find. But if you want to taste delicious chicken, get yourself to Villa del Lupo, Cioppino's Enoteca for lunch, or Bacchus on a Sunday evening. By Euro standards, all offer exceptional value when they flip you the bird.

3. I enjoyed your notes on your visit to southern Vancouver Island, where a number of engaging rooms have been hatched in the last three years. Victoria is recently rich in these characterful restaurants with cooking attentive to the seasons and the personality of the proprietor (who is also doing the cooking), indelibly stamped on the premises. Good on them. But with rents now hitting the $30 per square foot range, Vancouver suffers rents 30-40% higher than Victoria but with entree prices of barely 10% more; that should tell you why it is difficult now to make a living from a single 50-seater here. Only low interest rates have enabled recent start-ups. Thus the absence of neighbourhood restaurants in favour of Double Happy Dry Cleaners in the podiums of condo towers. Restaurants remain an almost-instant barometer of the economy, and higher volumes in casual circumstances will, for better or worse, likely continue to be the order of the day. I like it, but for an outsider's perception, take a look at Andy Lynes' engaging thread on this board.

3. It's not hard to find the kind of brand extension in Europe that grows out a successful 2 or 3 macaron. Michel Rostang, as just one example, has one eponymous haute cuisine 2-star restaurant (with an a la carte 65 Euro pigeon, the price of the entire tasting menus at West, Bis Moreno, Diva or Lumiere), but his empire is based on a foundation of less expensive pret a manger bistros spotted around Paris. Although they're naturally less connected to his "passion" they allow it to stay in business and his hard-working daughter to wear Chanel. He should be congratulated, by the way, because in an era of rapidly disappearing haute cuisine in Europe, he has found a way to survive, even if the pigeons won't.

4. Having recently worked alongside 50 BC chefs in the compilation of a local cookbook, I would have a lot of trouble denying them the virtues of integrity and passion. Quite the opposite is true, in fact--they enjoy an extraordinary commitment to their staffs and their ingredients, to the point that several forage for fresh products themselves, and all share a passionate interest in their suppliers' wares.

5. The wine list at Cru is a modern model of skillful choice and education for the patron and has been widely recognized as such. There remains ample reason that France and other European wine producing countries continue to lose marketshare, not for lack of passion or terroir, pehaps, but for their collective (and often arrogant, to their ultimate peril) ignorance of their customer.

6. I agree with you on one point, that the lack of local, tough apprenticeships and training disallow the disciplined foundations necessary to understand the complexities of ingredient procurement, management and cooking. In cooking, many chefs have told me, there is no replacement for the learning that comes from performing the same series of tasks repetitively. Unfortunately, without these foundations, many younger chefs offer up their insecurity on crowded plates with confusing flavours--failed Home Ec experiments. And I agree with stovetop's question--there are many other exemplars than West and Lumiere for quality dining experiences in this city. But those two chefs do have the foundations: David Hawksworth through his extensive training with the likes of Bruno Loubet, Marco Pierre White and others in the UK, and Rob Feenie during his legthy training with Michel Jacob and at the-then three star Au Crocodile in Strasbourg. But we should equally respect the sushi masters, the wok-men, the curry kings, the dessert divas and the extrordinarily high quality of service (thanks Earls!) that we enjoy here. On a good day in Europe this trip, we found laconic service. On other days it was by turns snotty, imperious, condescending or merely aloof. Interestingly, the best service by a long shot was at the Writers' Club in Moscow, where the waiters were charming and helpful but also understand the true meaning of hard currency.

7. I disagree with your notion that "criticising is the first step to improvement." Instead I would argue that self-criticism with knowledge is the first step to improvement, especially if a little wisdom is retrieved from the side of the road, along the way.

In closing, I'm still curious about what disappointed you at West and Lumiere--and where you cook now. And here's an open invitation. When the Chefs' Table (the group of chefs responsible for the compilation of the cookbook and each dedicated to local ingredients) convenes in September--would you like to come along and share your thoughts?

I hope that you won't find these remarks heavy-handed--they're certainly not intended that way, but rather to question and to engage you in the discusion that you sought. By the way, when I satred cooking professionally (if you can call what I was doing cooking) at the age of 16, which was more than a week and a half ago, the dining landscape here was as bald as the lone prairie.

Now it is not, and I wouldn't trade its soul and provenance for any other in the world.

Happy Bastille Day, and again, welcome aboard,

Jamie

[Andy Lynes]

High prices, low standards. No passion, no integrity. And the only feeling you keep walking away is that you've been ripped-off in style...

Edm - As a visitor to Vancouver for a mere 4 nights I am not in a position to make definitive statements about the city's restaurant scene. Moreover, as a journalist following an itenerary drawn up for me by Tourism BC with input from the likes of Jamie Maw and Nathan Fong, its arguable that I saw only the best the city had to offer under the best of circumstances. I have no vested interest in defending the city and those who work in it, its just that I simply cannot reconcile my experience

with your description.

My impressions were of reasonable prices, high standards and a great deal of passion and integrity. As a visitor from the UK, my perception of value is seen through the distoring lens of a highly favourable exchange rate, but nevertheless, dining out in Vancouver is a great deal less expensive than in London, or indeed most parts of the UK.

As a young professional, if you have not had the chance to do so, I would urge you to take the time to speak to the likes of Thomas Haas, David Hawsworth, Vikram Vij and Andrey Durbach. If after that you can still say there is no passion and integrity in the city, then we can have a serious debate about what those words mean to you.

Not everything is perfect of course, chefs have spoken to me about their frustration with the unions, with a lack of depth of skill in the kitchen workforce, about the quality of the catering colleges. It's a young industry, and as it matures these issues will no doubt resolve themselves. That aside, Vancouver has world class restaurants, service and more big personalities than you can shake a stick at.

I agree that its important to think critically about restaurant experiences, especially if you are going to write about them in a public forum like eGullet. One of the reasons I have remained involved in eGullet for the last three years is that I believe it is opening up the dialogue between restaurateur, chef and their customers like never before.

Stepping into my role as site manager for a moment, its equally important to avoid making sweeping statements, generalisations and assumptions about individuals motivations for being in the business.

Lumiere used to be a good deal 5 years ago, when the tasting menu was about 75 bucks and the room half empty (when it didnt feel like being a anchovy packed in a tin). 

A night at Diva last year was a total joke. Although the room was nearly empty, the waiter (who had been working there for 5 years) still managed to forget my amuse and bring my glass of red wine 5 mn after i got my venison, and so on...

Some of my friends were totally overlooked and poorly treated when going to Ouest and Sooke harbour house...

These sort of pot shots and second hand complaints do your credibility and the credibility of this site no good whatsoever. I'd like to run through my issues with them in the hope that you will take a little more time and thought before posting in future:

Lumiere: Which menu are you referring to. The current 8 course chef's menu is $100.00, a reasonable increase over 5 years in my opinion given increased costs and the rise of chef Feenie's reputation over that period. The 13 course signature menu is $130. Was this available for $75 5 years ago?. If so, then the increase is not so acceptable. From you post however, I, and anyone else reading along have no idea.

Why would you want to eat in a half empty restaurant? I can't believe that Lumiere can have survived by being half full for the first 5 years of trading, so unless more tables have been added in recent years, the experience of dining at Lumiere would be the same now as it was then. Again, from your post its not possible to tell what the exact situation is, and if you are going to raise criticisms which you claim are intended as "the first step to improvement" then you need to be complete and accurate in the statements you make, other wise it will be seen as simply carping.

Diva: no amuse and wine 5 minutes late make the evening "a total joke"? These are errors in service to be sure (do Diva usually offer an amuse? Did your dining companion, if there was one, get one and you didn't ?) and should have been flagged to the restaurant at the time. Did you do that, and if so, what was the response? Where there other errors in either the cooking or service that could justify your damning opinion?

Ouest and Sook Harbour House: you will need to supply details of the incidents in question for these allegations to carry any weight whatsoever. Anyone can say "my friend (or even worse, friend of a friend) went to such-and-such a restaurant and had a terrible time, they said it was awful". Well perhaps it was, perhaps your friends had an arguement on the way over and it spoiled the night for them. Perhaps they were drunk and acting like jerks and pissed off the waiting staff. Perhaps none of this happened. From what you have posted, how can I or anyone else possibly know?

Edm, I hope you continue to share your opinions with us, they are certainly provocative and make for interesting reading. But I also hope that you will take a few moments to put together a cohesive arguement in order to respect the tenets of this site, its users, its management and most importantly your fellow professionals.

[stovetop]

Thanks Andy for putting my feelings into such a much more elegant and graceful way; I wanted to say so much but held back, I can not believe that someone can say so much (edm), but so little, if you have some solid issues please we are all eyes and ears.

Your silence can and will say a lot if your position is not defended

Vancouver dinning scene now is far from what you described.

Andrey Durbach is one of the most passionate chefs I have worked with, he never settles for anything but perfection; John Bishop lives and breaths food, how much more passion do you need; Scott Kidd has been passionately and sometimes quietly toning his craft for years, when I first moved here ( BC) in 1989, he was at Gavroche, I love the food he did then and I still really respect his whole approach to food, he is a well educated and methodical chef, one of the best guys to work for, his passion for food is out there too. There have been a lot of chefs that have left BC, but one by one they return to this great province.

Cause in the end they realize that to have passion one needs the palette of colours that a chef needs to furor the passion onto the canvas (plate).

This is not France!!!

Welcome to Canada

Who has been winning the medals ( culinary Olympics)????????????

[jcsaucey]

I love this thread! Unfortunately edm's last post was Oct 5 2003. I think he has disapeared.

Edm, it is easy to bitch and complain about our scene, but if you do work here you will understand the struggles every cook, chef, waiter and owner face day to day. After you are running a buisy, sucessfull restaurant-with the respect of your peers-perhaps you will post again, with a different story.

[Andy Lynes]

His last post was in fact in May on this thread. He's still around.

[tofino]

As someone living in Tofino, but who has spent the last 9 years between Vermont, New Mexico, Cape Cod, PEI, Rochester/NY, and now beautiful BC, I can honestly say that the amount of diversity and quality of the food products in our region are amazing. Where I typically find we miss the boat a bit here, is that even though our Chefs are well travelled and experienced in different food styles, our wait staff and bus staff have typically not. Typically is the key word, I am not trying to misrepresent some of the excellent wait staff I have come across, but as a rule, we are not travelled enough, and as such - service tends to be not as knowledgeable unless you visit a Lumiere, West etc. Are prices here high? Depends, I had the pleasure of having the 13 course menu at Lumiere in March, and although 'expensive' was a true gastonomic experience. Its like if you rent a car - you can choose between the sub-compact or the luxury. Both will get you what you need, however one feels a whole lot better. As someone who has lived on Vancouver Island for the past 3 years, I have to admit, the dining scene from Victoria right up to Campbell River is in constant change for the better. From local produce, organic meats, mouth watering cheeses, and one of the hottest new wine areas, the Island is becoming a Gourmet destination. With people like Sinclair Phillips, Peter Zambri, Hillary Abbot, Cliff at Wildfire Bakery, we have nowhere to go but up. Eat locally, buy locally and support the vibrant dining scene that is BC.

We are very fortunate to live in an area that provides us with so much!

[jcsaucey]

To continue on what Tofino said, we have people passionate and commited to organic, sustainable farming all the way up the coast. I am currently bying organic produce from four farms in the Queen Charlotte Islands. How cool is that? Ice cold!

As for service, in Toronto a good server in a high end restaurant can make 50-75 G a year off wage and grats. I don't think there are many restaurants on the west coast that have a steady customer base who consistantly tip well-our market is predominantly tourist based-some tip well, some leave their wallets on the cruise ship. So the few Pro waiters are doing it here more for love than money. And they flock to the few places that can sustain a consistant client base.

I have had the pleasure of working with several talented, passionate and comitted servers on the west coast, but they are few and far between. Far to many "massage therapists in training-gotta pay the rent" types who are pretty to look at, but have no real love or skill for what in my oppinion is a noble PROFESSION.