The best Italian restaurant in the USA

[Craig Camp]

In the current issue of The Wine Spectator (April 30, 2003) the reviewer refers to Valentino in L.A. (Santa Monica) as continuing its, "reign as one of the best Italian restaurants in the United States."

As Valentino is now thirty years old it is reasonable to assume that other restaurants have passed Valentino by in quality and in innovation. Some claim Spiaggia in Chicago owns the throne.

So the question remains - what is the most innovative Italian restaurant in the United States.

[awbrig]

Some claim Spiaggia in Chicago owns the throne.

Im no authority on Italian restaurants in the US - thats for sure...but I can vouch for Spiaggia and Tony Mantuano's cooking - its amazing- I loved it when Paul Bartolotta was Chef - but now its more amazing than ever with Tony back...

Phil Vettel's 4 star Review of Spiaggia...

http://www.metromix.com/top/1,1419,M-Metro...l-10351,00.html

Edited April 2, 2003 by awbrig (log)

[coachboy]

Valentino isn't even the best restaurant in LA, let alone the US. Valentino has one thing going for it: and INCREDIBLE wine list.

The food can be very good, but too often is ordinary. Service is spotty and the ambiance is pretty dull.

Angelini Osteria serves up solid, Italian chow in LA.

Coachboy

[Jim Dixon]

In an issue of Food and Wine (maybe 2 yrs ago?), Giulliano Bugialli called Genoa (in Portland) "the best Italian restaurant in America" because it, more than any other place he'd been to here, prepared food the way it's done in Italy.

Genoa opened more than 25 years ago and was the first place here to offer Italian food that wasn't just tomato sauce and pasta. It's evolved significantly, and every two weeks the menu (fixed price, 7-course) changes to focus on a different regional cuisine.

It's also always had a slightly different approach to kitchen heirarchy. All of the cooks are called simply 'chefs' and the responsibility for menu planning and lead cooking rotates among them.

Jim

[Steve Plotnicki]

Of the ones I sampled (which includes Valentino) it used to be San Domenico when they first opened. And there was probably a stint where Le Madri was very good. But today I think the best Italian restaurant, despite their poor perfomance and inconsistancy, but based on their higher concept is Babbo. It's too bad because when Batalli was at Po, I used to enjoy that more, even though the food was simpler.

[Craig Camp]

I think I have to agree that I have been most impressed by Babbo. To cook Italian food in the United States is like translating something directly from Italian to English - often it comes out funny if you don't change it a bit. Batalli for all of his celebrity status really does draw inspiration from Italian regional cooking, but then successfully translates it using American products to replace those Italian products like vegetables and meat that are not available here.

[Wilfrid]

I'm happy San Domenico isn't innovative these days. You can just relax and enjoy the food.

[cmantuano]

The Wine Spectator likes Valentino because of the great wine cellar they have. To their credit, Valentino really did start it all 30 years ago by serving fine Italian wines and have continued to maintain a cellar of excellent selections.

Being in the Midwest, Spiaggia is often overlooked. Spiaggia serves authentic, regional Italian cuisine with style. Spiaggia also has a great wine cellar, with many fine Italian and international selections.

Spiaggia is Italian "fine dining" and does not get the attention a French "fine dining" restaurant might of the same calibre.

[GordonCooks]

Best Italian food is too general. Too many styles, types, levels. It can be simple, complex, pasta, no pasta, all tomatoes, no tomatoes etc. etc. How would you ever narrow it down ?

Kinda like naming the best sandwich

PS -

How's Felidia these days? It's been years since I've been.

[guajolote]

The Wine Spectator likes Valentino because of the great wine cellar they have. To their credit, Valentino really did start it all 30 years ago by serving fine Italian wines and have continued to maintain a cellar of excellent selections.

Being in the Midwest, Spiaggia is often overlooked. Spiaggia serves authentic, regional Italian cuisine with style. Spiaggia also has a great wine cellar, with many fine Italian and international selections.

Spiaggia is Italian "fine dining" and does not get the attention a French "fine dining" restaurant might of the same calibre.

Are you related to Tony Mantuano the chef?

By the way, I love Spiaggia

[Busboy]

I can hardly claim to have dined extensively in top-ten Italian restaurants, but "Il Laboradorio" in DC's Galileo, was nothing short of extraordinary the night I went. I had the truffle menu, my wife the regualar, so we shared 20 courses personally supervised -- he finished the sauces himself -- by Chef Donna. There were almost more cooks than patrons in the private room and from the carpaccio with truffle oil to the truffle ice cream - not to mention the non-truffle stuff, it was breathtaking. I'd be very surprised if there were ten chefs better than Roberto when he's back in the lab. The main restaurant, by the way, has always gotten mixed reviews and never really blown me away.

[cmantuano]

I agree with Gordon. It really is difficult to name the best Italian restaurant in the U.S. I dined at Felidia a year ago and it is still wonderful.

I have not yet been to Babbo, (going next month, if I can get in), but I hear from many sources that it is the closest to being in Italy.

guajolote, Yes, I am related to Tony. On his behalf, thank you for the compliment. Of course I'm biased, but I just think that many people don't consider "fine dining" Italian as "real" Italian. What do you think?

[peterpumkino]

I just think that many people don't  consider "fine dining" Italian as "real" Italian. What do you think?

Now you're on my subject (and I swore to myself that I wouldn't get into this again).

You are saying exactly what I have said for years. Yes, there is fine dining, there is even fine Italian dining but for Real Italian dining you really must go to Italy.

[Steve Klc]

Craig--in many cases, wouldn't "best Italian restaurant" and "most innovative Italian restaurant" be different? Did either Vetri in Philadelphia or Maestro in Tysons Corner, VA make the WS list?

Edited April 5, 2003 by Steve Klc (log)

[Craig Camp]

Craig--in many cases, wouldn't "best Italian restaurant" and "most innovative Italian restaurant" be different?  Did either Vetri or Maestro make the WS list?

The Wine Spectator story was about LA in general, not a listing of top Italian restaurants there or in the USA. In that story they referred to Valentino as mentioned.

I suppose you have to divide Italian restaurants in the USA into several categories:

1. Italian American - Like Carmine's in Chicago

2. Authentic - Like Babbo in NYC

3. Fine dining - Like Valentino in LA.

In a best Italian context I would have to eliminate the Italian-American places, but I see no problem in comparing Babbo vs. Spiaggia because we are talking about the quality of the food not the ambiance.

[Craig Camp]

Best Italian food is too general. Too many styles, types, levels. It can be simple, complex, pasta, no pasta, all tomatoes, no tomatoes etc. etc. How would you ever narrow it down ?

Kinda like naming the best sandwich

PS -

How's Felidia these days? It's been years since I've been.

Again I would eliminate the Italian American restaurants as that is a category in itself. I am referring to restaurants who have a kitchen inspired by the highest concepts of Italian restaurant cooking - then take that inspiration and apply it to the finest fresh ingredients available in their own market.

I had an excellent meal at Felidia about six months ago.

[Craig Camp]

I just think that many people don't  consider "fine dining" Italian as "real" Italian. What do you think?

Now you're on my subject (and I swore to myself that I wouldn't get into this again).

You are saying exactly what I have said for years. Yes, there is fine dining, there is even fine Italian dining but for Real Italian dining you really must go to Italy.

Welcome back from the slopes Peter.

I like the Real Italian Dining® - you may have a brand there get your trademark application in

I would agree you have to go to Italy for Real Italian Dining®, but what I think we are looking for are the restaurants that take that concept and execute it to the highest level.

[Craig Camp]

The Wine Spectator likes Valentino because of the great wine cellar they have. To their credit, Valentino really did start it all 30 years ago by serving fine Italian wines and have continued to maintain a cellar of excellent selections.

Being in the Midwest, Spiaggia is often overlooked. Spiaggia serves authentic, regional Italian cuisine with style. Spiaggia also has a great wine cellar, with many fine Italian and international selections.

Spiaggia is Italian "fine dining" and does not get the attention a French "fine dining" restaurant might of the same calibre.

You are right about the Wine Spectator, they give more weight to the wine list than the food - as they should.

[peterpumkino]

I would agree you have to go to Italy for Real Italian Dining®, but what I think we are looking for are the restaurants that take that concept and execute it to the highest level.

First of all thanks for the 'welcome back bit - I'll post my thoughts in a couple of days.

Meanwhile registering Real Italian Dining® is an excellent idea. But I do see what you are trying to convey and it's admirable it's just that some people do not understand Real Italian Dining® - you, and a few others, obviously do.

[Stone]

To cook Italian food in the United States is like translating something directly from Italian to English - often it comes out funny if you don't change it a bit.

Why do you think this is? (I'm not disagreeing.) Is it because of ingredients, or atmospherics? I would think that in places like NY and LA, the top restaurants could import whatever is needed.

[Craig Camp]

To cook Italian food in the United States is like translating something directly from Italian to English - often it comes out funny if you don't change it a bit.

Why do you think this is? (I'm not disagreeing.) Is it because of ingredients, or atmospherics? I would think that in places like NY and LA, the top restaurants could import whatever is needed.

Many reasons:

The types of fish are different here. In addition because of Italian geography the fish is very fresh everywhere by American standards and spectacularly fresh in areas right on the coast.

The meat is different - the animals feed on different things and are processed differently.

Affettati, the whole family of cured meats: prosciutto salami etc. - these just are not generally in the USA because often they cannot be imported legally and when they are they taste differently. Prosciutto crudo melts in your mouth in Italy and here it is saltier and dryer in texture because of the longer curing required to meet American health codes. These products are a fundamental part of Italian dining.

Dried pasta - According to US law pasta has to be an "enriched macaroni product" in other words they require certain vitamins to be added to pasta in minimum amounts. This changes the cooking and texture characteristics of the pasta as it make a 'harder' dried pasta.

The customers are very different.

The list goes on and on........

[docsconz]

I haven't seen Il Mulino in NYC mentioned. While I haven't dined there in yeasr it was spectacular in the past and continues to be a favorite of Zagat's. Any thoughts?

[Bill Klapp]

You are saying exactly what I have said for years. Yes, there is fine dining, there is even fine Italian dining but for Real Italian dining you really must go to Italy.

I hate myself for doing this, but I have to cop out on this one. I agree with Peter-due to the lack of equivalent quality ingredients, some of which are only available within a few kilometers of some small Italian town, and also due to the need of most U.S.-based chefs, whether Italian by birth and/or training or not, to pander to the American concept of what great Italian food should be, true Italian cooking cannot be replicated here. And not just in restaurants-I am a pretty fair cook of the Piemontese classics, but try as I might, I'm always better in the old country. While I think that someone like Molto Mario may fare better by adapting Italian recipes and techniques to ingredients available here than a transplanted Italian chef would, I find Mario to be making up with enthusiasm and showmanship what he lacks in real grounding in the best Italian culinary traditions. A lot of the recipes in his cookbooks fall flat on their faces, despite superficial appeal when you first read them. Still, I applaud the effort on his part. I find most New York Italian restaurants to be parodies at best. You can dine very well, to be sure, but rarely authentically. Galileo in Washington comes as close as I've seen. Strangely, a restaurant called Il Palio in Chapel Hill, NC is probably number 2 on my list (amazingly strong Piemontese-driven wine list as well). I,too, have not eaten there in years, but Il Mulino was my favorite in NYC as well.

Edited April 10, 2003 by Bill Klapp (log)

[Bill Klapp]

[The meat is different - the animals feed on different things and are processed differently.

Affettati, the whole family of cured meats: prosciutto salami etc. - these just are not generally in the USA because often they cannot be imported legally and when they are they taste differently. Prosciutto crudo melts in your mouth in Italy and here it is saltier and dryer in texture because of the longer curing required to meet American health codes. These products are a fundamental part of Italian dining.

Dried pasta - According to US law pasta has to be an "enriched macaroni product" in other words they require certain vitamins to be added to pasta in minimum amounts. This changes the cooking and texture characteristics of the pasta as it make a 'harder' dried pasta.

The customers are very different.

The list goes on and on........

Craig, right on. Don't forget the raw-milk cheeses that probably wouldn't be imported even if it were legal. It should also be noted that even in Italy, the quality of prosciutto available at retail 100 kilometers from Parma is often of dramatically lesser quality than that at the best locations around Parma. When you compare that with the product that the USDA permits us to import (with one or more month's extra aging, usually dry and a little tough and usually having not enjoyed its shoddy treatment during its journey), you might as well not eat prosciutto in the U.S. (I still do, of course!).

[Steve Plotnicki]

I'm surprised to hear you mention Il Mulino since I always thought it was one of the least authentic Italian restaurant in the city. So much so, that it could easily be categorized as Continental and not Italian. If you dig deep into the archives of this board, there is a thread where Il Mulino is discussed in detail and from what I remember, a number of different people make the same comment that I just made. Conceptually, San Domenico is a much better restaurant. Too bad they don't seem to care that much anymore.