Two months in New York City

[jean_genie]

Hey NY-ers,

I'm a newbie here, needing advice from NY-ers. Hubby will be taking a 2mth business trip to NYC, and I will be accompanying him (we arrive this Thursday 2nd Aug). 2 mths is a pretty lengthy period (but yet too short for me to find a job), so I'd like some suggestions on what food places to try and what to avoid. I have done a bit of searching on this thread, but this is a HUGE thread and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed atm. Assuming we don't have any food or budgetary restrictions (we are both non-alcoholic drinkers though), please give a list of must-try restaurants

We will be staying in Manhattan (I think on Wall Street?). I love markets and grocery shopping, but hubby said that most NY-ers rely on food delivery so there aren't that many markets or grocery stores around NYC. Please say that's not true, and please recommend some good markets/foodie places to explore I need something interesting to do while hubby is working!

[Also, sInce we're based in Japan where it's difficult to get good SE Asian (especially SIngaporean and Malaysian) and Chinese food, we'd love it if we can have reccomendations on good places to go to for those cuisines]

Many thanks in advance, and I look forward to reading any replies

Cheers,

Jean

[Todd36]

I would get a copy of Zagat's New York City Gourmet Shopping & Entertaining 2008. While people can disagree about the ratings in Zagat's guides, probably all of the major markets are listed, which makes it a very useful guide. NYC probably has more high end markets than any other American city, I'll mention a few. And I am sure people will disagree with what I say!! I hope you husband is kidding re we all get our food delivered. In no particular order.

1. Union Square Greenmarket. This is a large, open air greenmarket at Union Square (Broadway and 17th street, the market is at the north end of the park). Open Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Probably close to a 100 stands. Fruits. vegetables, local meat (tends to be expensive), jam, honey, bread cheeese etc. Some is very, very good. This is a direct from the farmer or maker to you concept. There are quite a few other green markets, but this is by far the largest. See http://www.cenyc.org/site/ for additional information.

2. Dean & Deluca. 560 Broadway (at Prince Street). This is fairly far downtown. When they opened, yikes, must be over 30 years ago, they were the high end market in NY. Probably not what it once was, went corporate. Interesting to visit. They have several passable coffee bar branches and a nice store at Madison and 65th.

3. Whole Foods. http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/ Several in Manhattan. This is a national chain that people love to hate and its not cheap. Still, everyone seems to shop there.

4. Trader Joe's, 14th Street near third avenue. A national chain, part of the German Aldi company. An odd discounter that focuses on packaged goods, a cult favorite for people.

5. Balducci's. For years, this was the high end market, several ownership changes, now corporate, no longer owned by the family. Getting better, it had slid. Store at 14th Street and 8th Avenue is worth a visit.

6. Grace's Market Place. 1237 Third Avenue (71st Street). Still owned by the Balducci's family (there was a fight, and the namesake store was sold). Italian focus. Well worth a visit.

7. Agata & Valentina. 1505 first avenue at 79th street. Partly owned by a Balducci (they seem to like to fight, he also was kicked out of #5). Southern Italian focus. Well worth a visit.

8. Russ & Daughters, 179 E. Houston St. Not my favorite, but a classic smoked fish and appetzing store, eastern European Jewish style. Worth seeing, although I am of the view that it passed its prime years ago. Still owned by the same family. Near Katz's deli (205 E. Houston), a very famous and very old sit-down deli famous for pastrimi sandwiches. well worth a visit. Katz's may be one of the oldest restaurants still in old form in NYC (has probably not changed in 50+ years, although my late grandfather I believe went to it vintage 1920 when it was across the street). Also near Yonah Schimmel Knish Bakery. A knish is a starch, such as potato or buckwheay groats, wrapped in pastry. Another classic eastern European food. The bad news is that while Yonah Schimmel dates to 1910, it probably hasn't been edibile since WWII. My grandparents compare their stuff to dog food, literally. I am sure people will disagree with me on this. You can get a decent knish at Zabar's, but this seems to be a product that must be made at home.

9. Eli's Manhattan 1411 third avenue, at 80th street. Same ownership at the Vunger Factory, 431 East 91st street. Very. very expensive. A large store. They have a large wholesale business selling baked goods such as bread and cookies, widely sold and very good. Owned by a member of the Zabar's family (yet another fight). See #10.

10. Zabar's. Ok, its a zoo and crazy and not known for its customer service. Broadway and 80th. Most famous for smoked fish. Family owns the building and other choice area real estate, which probably explains why its not going anywhere fast. Worth a visit, world famous actuallly. Actually more or less a discount operation, at least it used to be, still is in the cheese department. Very good olives. Prepared foods can be good for the money. It's interesting that many (perhaps most) of Manhattan's high end markets have either a Jewish or Italian focus.

11. Citarella, Broadway and 75th street. Probably NY's best known large fish market. high qualitity at high prices. Also pretty good meat and produce. Rest of the store can be iffy. Several other locations.

12. Fairway, Broadway and 75th steet. Literally next to Citerella. Other locations as well, this is the one to visit. Begain life as a produce store and also owns its own real estate. Quite large, crazy, crazy zoo. Large upstairs organic section. They are a discount operation actually. Good produce, if you select carefully, unusual deli type meats, rare hams and sausages. decent prepared foods, good cheese, passable fish, decent meat. Fairway and Citeralla and Zabar's make a good trip, Zabar's is less than a ten minute walk from the other two.

13. Barney Greenglass. Amsterdam Avenue and 86th street. Walkable from 10, 11, 12. Both a cash only sit down restaurant (eggs and smoked fish) and a smoked fish store. Actually, pretty much most things here are good. Still owned by the family.

14. Butterfield Market. Lexingtom Avenue and 77th street. Old and serves a very wealthy area. Pretty good and interesting if you want to see how people who don't care about prices shop.

Manhattan has a large Chinatown with other Asian subsections, all kinds of stores there. There are a few people who can probably provide Malysian or Singapore recomendations, although there are not really any very good such restaurants in town. Queens, a roughly 20 minute subway ride from midtown Manhattan, has giant Korean and Chinese areas, ariund Flushing and other areas. Good bread is easy to find in NY, I like Amy's and Sullian Street, other baked goods like pastries are more iffy. There are several decent Japanese markets, Sunrise Mart and JAS Mart are good choices near third avenue and St. Marks Place.

I'm sure you'll get a few hundred other suggestions.

[jean_genie]

Oh my, what a list! Thank you so much Todd36, I don't feel so apprehensive about going to NY now I will definitely check out most, if not all, of the places on your list! And I'll consider getting the Zagat guide you mentioned.

[emsny]

jean_genie, when you find out exactly where you'll be living, post again and I'm sure many of us will have much advice to bore you with. It is true that lots of people have food delivered, but it is unlikely that many other US cities have as many conveniently located food markets of all kinds.

[jean_genie]

jean_genie, when you find out exactly where you'll be living, post again and I'm sure many of us will have much advice to bore you with. It is true that lots of people have food delivered, but it is unlikely that many other US cities have as many conveniently located food markets of all kinds.

←

Hi emsny, thanks for your reply. I just checked and we'll be staying in one of the apartments on Wall Street.

[weinoo]

8.  Russ & Daughters, 179 E. Houston St.  Not my favorite, but a classic smoked fish and appetzing store, eastern European Jewish style. Worth seeing, although I am of the view that it passed its prime years ago.  Still owned by the same family.

←

What? Did you shop there years ago? And how has it passed it's prime - they're not selling from push carts any more? Seriously, though, tell me which store in the city has a broader selection of smoked/salted salmons and herring. And better, more knowledgeable fish slicers. Better whitefish salad. Kossar's bialys. H & H minis. The things you go to R & D for.

Otherwise, I like your list.

[Nathan]

its true. most people get their food delivered.

on the other hand, NY's sheer size means that you can find almost anything...somewhere...

but when you compare a NY supermarket to a contemporary supermarket in another American city's suburbs...you'll cry. (in a nutshell, even the best NY supermarkets kind of suck....its a size/space issue I think).

as for restaurants, more information on your preferences and price ranges would be good....so many options.

[tim]

Jean,

Here are some more ideas for NYC:

Grand Central Terminal Food Market: (Park Ave and 42nd) The food mall includes Penzey's Spices, Murray's Cheese, two sausage stores and others. It is worth the trip.

Murray's Cheese: (257 Bleeker @ 6th) The Village home of Murray's has a wonderful cheese selection.

Di Palo's: (260 Grand @ Mott) Great Italian cheese and sausage market in SOHO.

Despana: (Broome St. at Lafayette) Spanish gourmet foods includes Iberico ham, cheeses and sausages.

Jefferson Market: (460 6th Ave @ 11th St.) This grocery store will order you a black footed chicken and also sells caul fat. There is a Citarella next door.

Have fun.

Tim

[MarkIsCooking]

jean_genie -

I'm totally jealous. Former NYC dweller here (now in Boston) and hoping to return after my kids are grown.

You've already gotten tons of great suggestions and food is certainly VERY important; however, I hope you'll also take advantage of the countless other things there that are simply better and/or more diverse than almost anywhere in the world (from movies to theatre to museums to Central Park). If you want to chat about any of this other stuff, feel free to PM me.

-Mark-

[raji]

Hey NY-ers,

I'm a newbie here, needing advice from NY-ers. Hubby will be taking a 2mth business trip to NYC, and I will be accompanying him (we arrive this Thursday 2nd Aug). 2 mths is a pretty lengthy period (but yet too short for me to find a job), so I'd like some suggestions on what food places to try and what to avoid. I have done a bit of searching on this thread, but this is a HUGE thread and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed atm. Assuming we don't have any food or budgetary restrictions (we are both non-alcoholic drinkers though), please give a list of must-try restaurants

We will be staying in Manhattan (I think on Wall Street?). I love markets and grocery shopping, but hubby said that most NY-ers rely on food delivery so there aren't that many markets or grocery stores around NYC. Please say that's not true, and please recommend some good markets/foodie places to explore I need something interesting to do while hubby is working!

[Also, sInce we're based in Japan where it's difficult to get good SE Asian (especially SIngaporean and Malaysian) and Chinese food, we'd love it if we can have reccomendations on good places to go to for those cuisines]

Many thanks in advance, and I look forward to reading any replies

Cheers,

Jean

←

What's a non-alcoholic drinker?

If you're living on Wall STreet, yes,, mostly deliveries, because it's still kind of desolate down there...

For a taste of old New York, I would HIGHLY recommend strolling up 9th Avenue to hit the individual markets. You'll literally save 50% over the gourmet markets for the same quality.

http://nymag.com/realestate/map/19143/

Lastly, I lived in Japan several years and came back to NY with certain cravings. And besides Japanese, Korean and certain Chinese foods, Asian food is very poorly represented, or rather, "Japonified", in Japan. The flavors here you will find much stronger, authentic, and disagreeable to the Japanese palette. I could list my favorites ad nauseum here but you should just browse through these forums and you'll find extensive reviews of Thai, Vietnamese, Malaysian, etc. etc. foods, and you can even find great ones without having to go to the outer boroughs. Pan's the resident expert for Malay and Indonesian!

[jean_genie]

Oh, cool, so many replies! Thanks for all your replies.

Nathan: About restaurants preferences - we are adventurous eaters and would love to try anything that comes highly recommended. Price-wise: well, ranging from cheap to classy would be nice, and perhaps the maximum cost we'd want to pay for a meal is about $150 per person. Other preferences: as raji mentioned, most of the food in Japan are Japanised, so we crave for some good authentically-prepared food from any cuisines. Oh, and we love spicy food! I guess if everyone would recommend a couple of their favourite restaurants to try, we'd be pretty busy for our 2mths stay.

tim, thanks for your list of cheese and sausage places Hubby loves cheese (selection is somewhat lacking in Japan), so we'll definitely check those places out.

MarkIsCooking, your reply makes me feel better about going to NYC, and I hope you will return to NYC. To tell you the truth, I was initially quite apprehensive about NY, but reading this topic gives me stuff to look forward to. As a person who loves to travel and exploring, I'll definitely check out the non-food aspect of New York

raji: what I meant by "non-alcoholic drinkers" is that we both don't drink alcohol - I'm allergic to it and hubby chooses not to drink it on principle. Thanks for your recommendation re: markets on 9th avenue. Will check it out. Oh, and please do list your favourites!

[MarkIsCooking]

jean_genie -

I consider myself a friend of NYC. A real friend sees you as you really are and loves you anyway; and that's how I feel about NYC. It's not a perfect place. It can be noisy and dirty and very expensive and - if you read it wrong - impersonal. There is no city with the same vibrancy and the sheer selection of everything (both good and evil).

When I first moved to NYC, I had lived all my life in the suburbs of Washington, D.C. I moved to live with my then girlfriend (now my wife). She scouted out apartments and I came to check them out. I walked in her favorite selection and said, "This room is nice, where's the rest of it?" Of course, most people don't get much space to live in NYC given the cost. Hopefully, you'll have a nice place in a doorman building.

If you're not used to being in a big city, you do need to be aware, steer clear of certain neighborhoods and places after dark, not flaunt jewelry and sometimes strongly assert yourself to get what you want. That is a reality of city life. If you're going to be living in the Wall Street area, it is something to be aware of because some of that area has very little traffic at night and I generally suggest women avoid being alone on streets that are fairly vacant at night.

Despite the very bad press, I am a HUGE fan of the subway system. It is BY FAR the fastest and most dependable way to get around the city. Again, I wouldn't suggest you ride alone at midnight, but during most hours that you're getting around, the subway can be awesome. It's not hard to learn since most of the city is so logically laid out. Anyone could teach you in about 10 minutes how to get around most of Manhattan (just by understanding how the avenues and street system is laid out).

Strongly consider subscribing to New York Magazine. It comes out every week and they cover everything from local and national politics to real estate to lots of stuff to see/do in the city. The goings-on do change a lot, so it can be a valuable tool. Lots of people like Time Out, a competing magazine, but for what it's worth, I prefer NYM.

In terms of a handy pocket guide to NYC, think about picking up a copy of NFT (a small black book called Not For Tourists). It's a handy thing to have.

I guess that's my NYC pep talk for tonight.

-Mark-

[Todd36]

8.  Russ & Daughters, 179 E. Houston St.   Not my favorite, but a classic smoked fish and appetzing store, eastern European Jewish style. Worth seeing, although I am of the view that it passed its prime years ago.  Still owned by the same family.

←

What? Did you shop there years ago? And how has it passed it's prime - they're not selling from push carts any more? Seriously, though, tell me which store in the city has a broader selection of smoked/salted salmons and herring. And better, more knowledgeable fish slicers. Better whitefish salad. Kossar's bialys. H & H minis. The things you go to R & D for.

Otherwise, I like your list.

←

Yes, I am 39 years old and was born in Brooklyn and my grandfather (born in 1912) grew up around the corner from Russ & Daughters. He first took me there when I was about 6. His father owned a pushcart. When did you first go? Mentioning H&H bagels is not a help, they are not very good. Try Barney Greenglass.

[Todd36]

Jean,

Here are some more ideas for NYC:

Grand Central Terminal Food Market:  (Park Ave and 42nd)  The food mall includes Penzey's Spices, Murray's Cheese, two sausage stores and others.  It is worth the trip.

Murray's Cheese:  (257 Bleeker @ 6th)  The Village home of Murray's has a wonderful cheese selection.

Di Palo's:  (260 Grand @ Mott)  Great Italian cheese and sausage market in SOHO.

Despana:  (Broome St. at Lafayette)  Spanish gourmet foods includes Iberico ham, cheeses and sausages.

Jefferson Market:  (460 6th Ave @ 11th St.)  This grocery store will order you a black footed chicken and also sells caul fat.  There is a Citarella next door.

Have fun.

Tim

←

Grand Central market is interesting, the only two top shelf things in there in my opinion are Murry's and the "bakery" near the street exit (not really a bakery, they sell good stuff other people make).

The main Murry's is well worth a trip, probably best cheese shop in town. A branch of Amy's bread is next door (everything they make seems to be good, including better cupcakes than Magnola and the other tourist places). Zito's across the street alas is gone, famous for bread. Also very close is Facco's (not spelled right), famous Italian pork store, famous for uncooked sausages.

Di Palo's is great for Italian cheeses and ham and sausages and the like. Its also basically in Chinatown and I think there is a branch of a decent Maylasian restaurant, not Penang but same owner, down the street, further east.

Despana has sold me stuff past its prime, I think they lack sufficient turnover.

Jefferson Market is interesting, was at one time famous for its meats. Probably no longer a top market, but still worth a trip. The nearby Citerallia was for many years the location of Balducci's.

There is a another current thread in which people are discussing their favorite meat markets.

[Todd36]

its true.  most people get their food delivered.

on the other hand, NY's sheer size means that you can find almost anything...somewhere...

but when you compare a NY supermarket to a contemporary supermarket in another American city's suburbs...you'll cry.  (in a nutshell, even the best NY supermarkets kind of suck....its a size/space issue I think).

as for restaurants, more information on your preferences and price ranges would be good....so many options.

←

I can't figure out why people think most food in Manhattan is delivered. I wish that were true. I live within 10 blocks of 4 or 5 full size supermarkets, several large delis, many speciality stores, not to mention Fairway. Someone sure as heck is shopping in these places.

What I do think is true is that Manhattan has more of the small speciality stores that are gone elsewhere. Between 96th Street and Houston Street for example there are probably at least 50 bread bakeries and 20 plus meat markets. Not to mention at least a dozen large speciality markets and quite a few cheese stores... You like Chocolate? We have at least 10 high end chocololate stores where you can spend $50 plus a pound, heck, we can do $100 plus a pound if you want. There are also quite a few independent health food stores. Like to buy fresh coffee? Try Porto Rico Coffee or McNulty's or or. Ten plus fresh pasta stores. Its true that real estate is rather expensive around here, which means we don't have giant supermarkets. But most people don't do one stop shopping either, they buy what is best at different places.

[jean_genie]

Dear Mark,

Thank you so much for your valued advice. If there are people like you who are passionate about NYC, I'm sure it's not as bad as I imagine it to be. Hopefully I have enough common sense to avoid trouble. There will at least be a fully equipped kitchen in the apartment that we'll stay at, so hopefully it's not too tiny. And thanks very much for the recommendations to pick up NYM and NFT - I'm sure I'll refer to them a lot if I get them (and I most probably will).

Cheers

Jean

jean_genie -

I consider myself a friend of NYC.  A real friend sees you as you really are and loves you anyway; and that's how I feel about NYC.  It's not a perfect place.  It can be noisy and dirty and very expensive and - if you read it wrong - impersonal.  There is no city with the same vibrancy and the sheer selection of everything (both good and evil).

When I first moved to NYC, I had lived all my life in the suburbs of Washington, D.C.    I moved to live with my then girlfriend (now my wife).  She scouted out apartments and I came to check them out.  I walked in her favorite selection and said, "This room is nice, where's the rest of it?"  Of course, most people don't get much space to live in NYC given the cost.  Hopefully, you'll have a nice place in a doorman building.

If you're not used to being in a big city, you do need to be aware, steer clear of certain neighborhoods and places after dark, not flaunt jewelry and sometimes strongly assert yourself to get what you want.  That is a reality of city life.  If you're going to be living in the Wall Street area, it is something to be aware of because some of that area has very little traffic at night and I generally suggest women avoid being alone on streets that are fairly vacant at night.

Despite the very bad press, I am a HUGE fan of the subway system.  It is BY FAR the fastest and most dependable way to get around the city.  Again, I wouldn't suggest you ride alone at midnight, but during most hours that you're getting around, the subway can be awesome.  It's not hard to learn since most of the city is so logically laid out.  Anyone could teach you in about 10 minutes how to get around most of Manhattan (just by understanding how the avenues and street system is laid out).

Strongly consider subscribing to New York Magazine.  It comes out every week and they cover everything from local and national politics to real estate to lots of stuff to see/do in the city.  The goings-on do change a lot, so it can be a valuable tool.  Lots of people like Time Out, a competing magazine, but for what it's worth, I prefer NYM.

In terms of a handy pocket guide to NYC, think about picking up a copy of NFT (a small black book called Not For Tourists).  It's a handy thing to have.

I guess that's my NYC pep talk for tonight.

-Mark-

←

[jean_genie]

Todd36, thank you for your input. After living in countryside Japan for the past year where it was difficult to get many international foodstuff, I sure am looking forward to the variety offered by NYC!

[jean_genie]

Oh, and haha! I just found the list of links to "THE BEST" threads - dunno how I missed it before, seeing that it has been pinned And oh my, what a list!

[jean_genie]

Sorry for multiposting, but I do have a specific question. Having only ever lived in Malaysia, Australia and Japan (and only travelled around Asia), I'm familiar only with the dining cultures in these countries - are there anything important I need to be aware of when dining in NY? I'm already aware of the tipping culture - are there any others I should know of? Thanks!

[georgeb]

I'm already aware of the tipping culture - are there any others I should know of? Thanks!

←

Yes, when you go to Katz Deli, don't lose your ticket!!!

[weinoo]

8.  Russ & Daughters, 179 E. Houston St.  Not my favorite, but a classic smoked fish and appetzing store, eastern European Jewish style. Worth seeing, although I am of the view that it passed its prime years ago.  Still owned by the same family.

←

What? Did you shop there years ago? And how has it passed it's prime - they're not selling from push carts any more? Seriously, though, tell me which store in the city has a broader selection of smoked/salted salmons and herring. And better, more knowledgeable fish slicers. Better whitefish salad. Kossar's bialys. H & H minis. The things you go to R & D for.

Otherwise, I like your list.

←

Yes, I am 39 years old and was born in Brooklyn and my grandfather (born in 1912) grew up around the corner from Russ & Daughters. He first took me there when I was about 6. His father owned a pushcart. When did you first go? Mentioning H&H bagels is not a help, they are not very good. Try Barney Greenglass.

←

So how did it pass its prime - because they sell H & H minis? Greengrass and R & D are different types of establishments; they (Greengrass) don't have nearly the selection of salmons that R & D does. As an aside, when you first went at the age of six, I was already driving a cab.

[Nathan]

its true.  most people get their food delivered.

on the other hand, NY's sheer size means that you can find almost anything...somewhere...

but when you compare a NY supermarket to a contemporary supermarket in another American city's suburbs...you'll cry.  (in a nutshell, even the best NY supermarkets kind of suck....its a size/space issue I think).

as for restaurants, more information on your preferences and price ranges would be good....so many options.

←

I can't figure out why people think most food in Manhattan is delivered. I wish that were true. I live within 10 blocks of 4 or 5 full size supermarkets, several large delis, many speciality stores, not to mention Fairway. Someone sure as heck is shopping in these places.

What I do think is true is that Manhattan has more of the small speciality stores that are gone elsewhere. Between 96th Street and Houston Street for example there are probably at least 50 bread bakeries and 20 plus meat markets. Not to mention at least a dozen large speciality markets and quite a few cheese stores... You like Chocolate? We have at least 10 high end chocololate stores where you can spend $50 plus a pound, heck, we can do $100 plus a pound if you want. There are also quite a few independent health food stores. Like to buy fresh coffee? Try Porto Rico Coffee or McNulty's or or. Ten plus fresh pasta stores. Its true that real estate is rather expensive around here, which means we don't have giant supermarkets. But most people don't do one stop shopping either, they buy what is best at different places.

←

most people here don't cook. they get deliver/takeout. throw in that practically all of the grocery stores do deliver (for those who do cook).

[StInGeR]

Sorry for multiposting, but I do have a specific question. Having only ever lived in Malaysia, Australia and Japan (and only travelled around Asia), I'm familiar only with the dining cultures in these countries - are there anything important I need to be aware of when dining in NY? I'm already aware of the tipping culture - are there any others I should know of? Thanks!

←

As an Australian living in New Jersey, the tipping is a big thing. Another piece of advice is whatever you do DON'T convert food prices into whatever currency your used to!!! I made the mistake of doing that the first few times I went shopping and nearly had a coronary. If you have any questions regarding pricing of certain supermarket items PM me.

Tom

[Todd36]

8.  Russ & Daughters, 179 E. Houston St.   Not my favorite, but a classic smoked fish and appetzing store, eastern European Jewish style. Worth seeing, although I am of the view that it passed its prime years ago.  Still owned by the same family.

←

What? Did you shop there years ago? And how has it passed it's prime - they're not selling from push carts any more? Seriously, though, tell me which store in the city has a broader selection of smoked/salted salmons and herring. And better, more knowledgeable fish slicers. Better whitefish salad. Kossar's bialys. H & H minis. The things you go to R & D for.

Otherwise, I like your list.

←

Yes, I am 39 years old and was born in Brooklyn and my grandfather (born in 1912) grew up around the corner from Russ & Daughters. He first took me there when I was about 6. His father owned a pushcart. When did you first go? Mentioning H&H bagels is not a help, they are not very good. Try Barney Greenglass.

←

So how did it pass its prime - because they sell H & H minis? Greengrass and R & D are different types of establishments; they (Greengrass) don't have nearly the selection of salmons that R & D does. As an aside, when you first went at the age of six, I was already driving a cab.

←

If you think that selling H&H minis is an example of something good, it is hard for me to take your other points. In terms of selection, Nova (eastern) is what sells, on their own web site Russ & Daughters tells you its their best seller, its also clearly what Zabar's basically sells (I almost never see anyone buy anything else there) and Fairway's counterman says 90% of what they sell is eastern Nova. Greenglass has four kinds I believe. I (like most people) take eastern nova because its less salty. Zabar's does sell six or so kinds of salmon, which is probably what Russ & Daughters has. If you want selection, go to Fairway, they had 15+ kinds tonight. My own theory is that freshness is key---once the packghe is open, all is lost---by selling fewer types, both Barney Greenglass and Zabar's are probably helping.

Try buying some of the dust covered dried mushrooms hanging from the ceiling---that's what has kept me from coming back. Or try walking by at night and look very carefully at the dried fruit in the window, bet you'll never eat it again. My parents will not shop there either. The store does not have a good feel to it. If you prefer more objective data, get a NYT select account, they have done not so well in NYT reviews----Fairway may still have one of those hanging up.

If nothing else, we've proven that people in NY love to disagree.

And when you were driving that cab when I was six, what did you think of Adelman's?

[weinoo]

If you think that selling H&H minis is an example of something good, it is hard for me to take your other points.  In terms of selection, Nova (eastern) is what sells, on their own web site Russ & Daughters tells you its their best seller, its also clearly what Zabar's basically sells (I almost never see anyone buy anything else there) and Fairway's counterman says 90% of what they sell is eastern Nova.  Greenglass has four kinds I believe.  I (like most people) take eastern nova because its less salty.  Zabar's does sell six or so kinds of salmon, which is probably what Russ & Daughters has.  If you want selection, go to Fairway, they had 15+ kinds tonight.  My own theory is that freshness is key---once the packghe is open, all is lost---by selling fewer types, both Barney Greenglass and Zabar's are probably helping.

Try buying some of the dust covered dried mushrooms hanging from the ceiling---that's what has kept me from coming back.  Or try walking by at night and look very carefully at the dried fruit in the window, bet you'll never eat it again.  My parents will not shop there either.  The store does not have a good feel to it.  If you prefer more objective data, get a NYT select account, they have done not so well in NYT reviews----Fairway may still have one of those hanging up. 

If nothing else, we've proven that people in NY love to disagree.

And when you were driving that cab when I was six, what did you think of Adelman's?

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Never said that selling H & H was an example of something good....just thought that it was one of the reasons you thought R & D is past it's prime.

Now, why would I buy dried mushrooms or dried fruit at R & D? I also don't buy eastern nova - it's not to my taste. I buy lox, sable, Scottish smoked salmon, smoked wild king (when they have it), Baltic (when I'm feeling flush), sturgeon, herring, whitefish salad, smoked whitefish, etc. I also doubt R & D has anything to worry about in the freshness or handling department, as far as their fish selection goes...I'll take their handling over Fairway's any day of the week...I believe they get the best of the best from Acme - sort of like Luger's getting dibs on beef.

And yes, New Yorkers love to disagree. Are you referring to Adelman's in Midwood? Never ate there. But the clam bar at Main & Roosevelt played a big part in those cab driving years...for less than a buck you could get a draft (Schlitz, I believe) and a hot dog!