[gnoos]

Hi,

Just decided to take 2 weeks at the end of June to drive and eat through France.

So need some suggestions, whats great to do? I imagine quite a few people have done this? We're thinking we need to focus on a few regions as france is a pretty big place...

We'd like to get some great restaurants in and some vineyards too, steering clear of Paris.

We'll be coming via Eurotunnel and were thinking maybe driving down through central france, the loire and up the atlantic coast.

All suggestions welcome!

Thanks in advance

[menton1]

This is a most difficult request to answer, France is so big and so varied, and there are so many endless things to do, I would not know where to start with you.

You might be able to narrow down the field a bit by starting with some general interests that you have, and just how much time you want to spend driving. France may look small on a map, but driving all over can be quite time-consuming and if you are like myself you may prefer stayovers of at least 3-4 nights on your expeditions.

YOu could also have a look at the different Regions first (there are 21) and see if some have more or less appeal to you. After you have narrowed your lists down, let us know and perhaps we could be of better assistance.

You might also find that you will, like us, have to return to France over and over again to see all that you want to in this great country. Bon voyage!

[hughw]

I think you'll find some useful information in the France section of SlowTravel site.

[Dave Hatfield]

menton1's advice is very sound. Your best bet is to focus upon 2 or at the most three areas that really appeal to you.

From Calais you can certainly make it to the Loire valley in a long day's drive. You could pick a base & explore the area both East & West.

From there a hop down to the Bordeaux region via the A20 & A62 is another day's drive. You will find lots of wine & fine restaurants. Spend time there.

Come back via Caen stopping wherever strikes your fancy.

We tend to use the auto routes for the long hops & avoid them otherwise. Indispensable is viamichelin for route planning as well as restaurants & hotels. Another must use is: Logis de France for hotels.

As you narrow your search there are plenty of people on this site who will be happy to give you local knowledge.

Good luck!

PS: Forgot to mention that the quickest way to get to the Loire from Calais is via Paris. Fear not, if you decide to take this route I'll send you directions on how to painlessly navigate your way through Paris.

This post has been edited by Dave Hatfield: 16 January 2007 - 03:42 AM

[Busboy]

I second Dave's www.viamichelin.com suggestion (you have to register to get access to the restaurant and hotel guides). And, if reccommending the Michelin Guide is hardly groundreaking advice, I will add that we have had much success with the "Bib Gourmand" and "value menu" reccomendations - fine meals for under 30 euros.

[gnoos]

Hi thanks for all the advise, i realise it was a bit of an open ended question!

Focusing on regions does seem the best idea - where can i find details on each?

Off the top of my head i am thinking Loire and Bordeaux as two to perhaps focus on.

We've spent a lot of time in the south (Grasse/Nice/Cannes) and south west (Languedoc) so will probably not go there this time.

I did want to get a trip to Michel Bras in also...

Thanks

[John Talbott]

gnoos, on Jan 16 2007, 06:50 AM, said:

Hi thanks for all the advise, i realise it was a bit of an open ended question!

Focusing on regions does seem the best idea - where can i find details on each?

Off the top of my head i am thinking Loire and Bordeaux as two to perhaps focus on.

We've spent a lot of time in the south (Grasse/Nice/Cannes) and south west (Languedoc) so will probably not go there this time.

I did want to get a trip to Michel Bras in also...

Thanks

Try trips to France, Bordeaux, and other regions.

No Loire yet, I'll work on that ASAP but in the meantime do a search.

John

[Dave Hatfield]

Follow John's advice.

If you decide on Bordeaux you might also want to check out the Pau area. Its not far to travel, you have great wines, great restaurants and great scenery as you're close to the Pyrenees. Pau itself is a neat town and Jaracon has a great 2 star restaurant called Chez Ruffet.

From there its an easy drive up through Toulouse and then East to get to Michael Bra's. Be warned though its a long drive. A good 7 hours from Bordeaux. Once you get there there is nothing much unless you want to buy knives from the famous village nearby.
Try here
for some opinions including mine about the restaurant. If you go I think your best bet would be to book a night at the hotel as well as the restaurant. You need to be very clear headed to drive the nearby roads.

If you decide to go to Bra's let us know; we're on the way and can give you a cup of proper English tea as you pass by.

[menton1]

gnoos, on Jan 16 2007, 08:50 AM, said:

Hi thanks for all the advise, i realise it was a bit of an open ended question!

Focusing on regions does seem the best idea - where can i find details on each?

Off the top of my head i am thinking Loire and Bordeaux as two to perhaps focus on.

We've spent a lot of time in the south (Grasse/Nice/Cannes) and south west (Languedoc) so will probably not go there this time.

I did want to get a trip to Michel Bras in also...

Thanks

Well, I think that the excursion from the Loire Valley to Bordeaux will consume the better part of a day. A pretty good distance. Perhaps an alternative might be the TGV from Paris-Bordeaux, just under 3 hours.

IMHO Bordeaux is lovely, but a bit staid. My favorite départements in the Southwest are Dordogne and Lot. Literally hundreds of castles (the fortified type, not the luxurious Loire Valley type) also ancient caves with paintings literally 15-17,000 years old! Staggering, make reservations. Grotte de Font de Gaume in Les Eyzies, and Grotte de Peche Merle in the Lot are the best of the bunch for me.
The food also excels, and some of the Chambres d'hote in this area offer a Table d'Hote, which means dinner at a community table with the other guests and the hosts. An unforgettable experience. Also the "bastide" fortified villages are quite fascinating. And although its a popular area, the Dordogne doesn't have the touristy-ness of Provence, and is much more down-to earth. Enjoy!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Menton1 makes several excellent points.

In order to maximize our time in any area, we always take the TGV from Paris to as close to our destination as we can get. We enjoy the countryside as we pass through, then pick up a car at the train station and spend our time driving around the area we have chosen to visit.

We also love to stay at chambre d'hotes, especially those that offer 'table d'hote', the evening meal. We were hesitant at first, thinking that language would be a barrier and an embarrassment. But there is usually someone who can interface among guests, and goodwill fills in the gaps. At this point, we target only those places where we can join in at these communal tables for at least one evening of our stay, dining there a second night if it was extraordinarily good or trying local restaurants on subsequent evenings.

[Busboy]

One thing I wanted to add, though I don't know how the North compares with the South in this regard, but French people seem to spend a lot of time picknicking by rivers and jumping off rocks into them. This beats the hell out of an afternoon by the pool at some hotel, and we do it whenever we can. Also a great excuse to splurge on charcuterie and cheese.

[John Talbott]

gnoos, on Jan 15 2007, 02:02 PM, said:

Hi,
Just decided to take 2 weeks at the end of June to drive and eat through France.

My wife Colette and I have driven just about every road in France at least once in our tender years and I'd like to put in a word for Brittany and Normandy. They may not have as many starred places and certainly not the vineyards of Bordeaux or Burgundy (or even Languedoc) but for sheer beauty, convenience and warmth, I'll take them any day.

[Dave Hatfield]

menton1, on Jan 16 2007, 05:20 PM, said:

gnoos, on Jan 16 2007, 08:50 AM, said:

Hi thanks for all the advise, i realise it was a bit of an open ended question!

Focusing on regions does seem the best idea - where can i find details on each?

Off the top of my head i am thinking Loire and Bordeaux as two to perhaps focus on.

We've spent a lot of time in the south (Grasse/Nice/Cannes) and south west (Languedoc) so will probably not go there this time.

I did want to get a trip to Michel Bras in also...

Thanks

Well, I think that the excursion from the Loire Valley to Bordeaux will consume the better part of a day. A pretty good distance. Perhaps an alternative might be the TGV from Paris-Bordeaux, just under 3 hours.

IMHO Bordeaux is lovely, but a bit staid. My favorite départements in the Southwest are Dordogne and Lot. Literally hundreds of castles (the fortified type, not the luxurious Loire Valley type) also ancient caves with paintings literally 15-17,000 years old! Staggering, make reservations. Grotte de Font de Gaume in Les Eyzies, and Grotte de Peche Merle in the Lot are the best of the bunch for me.
The food also excels, and some of the Chambres d'hote in this area offer a Table d'Hote, which means dinner at a community table with the other guests and the hosts. An unforgettable experience. Also the "bastide" fortified villages are quite fascinating. And although its a popular area, the Dordogne doesn't have the touristy-ness of Provence, and is much more down-to earth. Enjoy!

Pretty much wholly agree.

That's why I suggested the Pau area, far more interesting than Bordeaux IMHO.

We find the Dordagne very beautiful, but a bit too full of Brits.

The Lot is terrific & Pech Merle is a must see. By the way, there's a one star within a few miles in the Cahors direction. Can't recall the name, but Michelin will find it for you. While at Pech Merle cross the River to St. Cirq le Popie. A spectacular village even if a bit touristy.

We normally don't brag, but just South of the Lot is Tarn et Garonne which is pretty special in a lower key way.

[menton1]

Quote

We find the Dordagne very beautiful, but a bit too full of Brits.

Funny, I've rarely encountered a Brit in this area, even though it is on their "favorites" list. I love the village of Sarlat-le-Caneda, and also love the quietude of the Lot-et-Garonne. Haven't been to Tarn-et-Garonne yet, but will get there one of these trips for sure. It's France, what could be bad? :)

[John DePaula]

I ditto everything that menton1 has already said. Sarlat: wonderful. Rocamadour: not so much; too touristy.

I visited some friends in Bergerac and we canoed up the Dordogne river - breathtaking beauty; lovely countryside; perfect for a leisurely drive.

Sorry that I don't have the time right now to post some pix...

[markk]

Busboy, on Jan 16 2007, 05:17 AM, said:

we have had much success with the "Bib Gourmand" and "value menu" reccomendations - fine meals for under 30 euros.

We too have had much, very spectacular success, with the "Bib Gourmand" restaurants, feasting ourselves silly. (There are photos of 4 such meals in the link in my signature, from a trip just spent following Michelin restaurants, especially the Bib Gourmand ones. I'd base a trip around it any day, and was told about it originally by a man I met at breakfast one day who was in France, visiting from Hungary, having just such a trip.)

Edited to add, now that I've read the entire thread, that a personal favorite region is Alsace, not that I think there are any regions that are not great there. I assume that the "warmth" comment somewhere above had to do with the people, and that prompted me to say that in Alsace, the people are effervescently and exceptionally warm (not that they aren't in other regions too, in my experience).

This post has been edited by markk: 17 January 2007 - 06:55 PM

[mukki]

I highly recommend the Dordogne. We took the train to Bordeaux, picked up a car, spent a night in St. Emilion and then drove around the Dordogne.

You can find a few pictures in my trip report here.

[markk]

So, are there any bad places to visit in France? Can't you just take a blindfolded stab at a map of France and have a great trip on every count wherever you point?

[gnoos]

Thanks all for the advice (and offers of tea!).

I have some ideas starting to crystalise now, loire, dordogne, michel bras, bordeaux and home.

Will research those more and try to keep this thread up to date so it may be helpful to others.

Thanks

[gnoos]

Ok, so I'm starting to get an idea of what we're going to do.

Eurotunnel to Calais.
3 nights in the loire here http://www.domainehautsloire.com/
3 more here in the loire http://www.chateaude...fr/promo_en.php
4 nights wine/cookery course in bordeaux http://www.bordeauxs...com/default.htm
2 nights here http://www.chateauxmirambeau.com/
then drive back to calais stopping somewhere nice for one night.

i'd be interested to know what you all think - my points of concern are can i get to loire in one day easy enough? and maybe the 2 places in the loire are too close?

thanks in advace for any advice.

[John Whiting]

menton1, on Jan 17 2007, 01:07 PM, said:

Quote

We find the Dordagne very beautiful, but a bit too full of Brits.

Funny, I've rarely encountered a Brit in this area, even though it is on their "favorites" list.

That could be because the Brits in that area are better integrated into their communities than, say, the arrogant Angloegotists that took over Cannes/Nice in the 19th century.

One item of equipment that I've found invaluable for the past ten years of European driving is a good reliable self-contained GPS, the sort that you can plug into the lighter socket of any car. The one I swear by is the Garmin StreetPilot 2610. It's been discontinued but is still around at a fraction of its original cost. It lacks iPod, a host of phony voices and cellphone interface, but what's great about it is its rock-solid reliability, the accuracy of its maps and the easy option of choosing minor roads in a more or less straight line to one's destination, thus avoiding both the expensive A roads and the long slow tailbacks of the heavily travelled N routes. I've sometimes driven for an hour without seeing another vehicle.

[Dave Hatfield]

John Whiting, on Jan 21 2007, 03:00 PM, said:

menton1, on Jan 17 2007, 01:07 PM, said:

Quote

We find the Dordagne very beautiful, but a bit too full of Brits.

Funny, I've rarely encountered a Brit in this area, even though it is on their "favorites" list.

That could be because the Brits in that area are better integrated into their communities than, say, the arrogant Angloegotists that took over Cannes/Nice in the 19th century.

John - I wouldn't argue your point about Provence, but I'm not so sure about the Dordogne expats being all that integrated.
Sarlat on market day in the summer is like being in a prettier Brighton. Hard to find a non-english speaking local.

[menton1]

gnoos, on Jan 21 2007, 07:54 AM, said:

Ok, so I'm starting to get an idea of what we're going to do.

Eurotunnel to Calais.
3 nights in the loire here http://www.domainehautsloire.com/
3 more here in the loire http://www.chateaude...fr/promo_en.php
4 nights wine/cookery course in bordeaux http://www.bordeauxs...com/default.htm
2 nights here http://www.chateauxmirambeau.com/
then drive back to calais stopping somewhere nice for one night.

i'd be interested to know what you all think - my points of concern are can i get to loire in one day easy enough?  and maybe the 2 places in the loire are too close?

thanks in advace for any advice.

Sounds like an interesting trip. The drive from the Loire Valley to Bordeaux is a good 6-7 hours, though. Uses up most of a day (each way).

I'm a big fan of Chambres d'hote, and in general, I stay away from the Relais et Chateax properties; although high end, they tend to be too snooty, too enclosed, and very very overpriced for the value. But that's just my IMHO. I think with a little research there are much better choices. Gites de France has some terrific properties but they are mixed in with some mediocre ones, you have to sort them out. Usually the "4 épis" ratings are excellent.

Don't miss the Vouvray in the Touraine! Love the stuff!

[GastroChick]

Is Gites de France on line? I cant seem to find it?

This post has been edited by GastroChick: 22 January 2007 - 12:50 AM

[John Talbott]

GastroChick, on Jan 22 2007, 12:48 AM, said:

Is Gites de France on line?  I cant seem to find it?

Other than ordering them I'm not aware they are on line.

[Felice]

John Talbott, on Jan 22 2007, 05:19 AM, said:

GastroChick, on Jan 22 2007, 12:48 AM, said:

Is Gites de France on line?  I cant seem to find it?

Other than ordering them I'm not aware they are on line.

Here it is

www.gites-de-france.com

[Dave Hatfield]

I'm in agreement with menton1. A nice trip, but I wouldn't stay anywhere this upmarket.

I'd be more inclined to try Logis de France if the Chambre d'hotel is plunging into the deep in a bit too soon.

More upmarket, sort of in between, are the Silence Hotels Sort of a silly name; it gets lost in the translation, but these are charming places. We've stayed in many over the years & never been disappointed.

Yes, you can make it from the chunnel to the Loire in a day. About 6-7 hours I'd guess using the autoroutes until you get close.

In addition to Menton1's comments about Relais et Chateax which I agree with is the high probability that most of the other guests will not be French. You are more likely to meet Americans & Germans this time of year.

Don't know if this link will work, but if so it gives you your driving itinerary from Calais to Onzain.
4 hours & 45 minutes, toll fees 32.80 Euro.

Same deal here.
Onzain to Bordeaux.4 hours according to Michelin so a pretty days drive. Work out a nice place for lunch.

Links seem to work, just a bit slow to display.

This post has been edited by Dave Hatfield: 22 January 2007 - 08:31 AM

[Corinna Dunne]

menton1, on Jan 22 2007, 02:28 AM, said:

gnoos, on Jan 21 2007, 07:54 AM, said:

Ok, so I'm starting to get an idea of what we're going to do.

Eurotunnel to Calais.
3 nights in the loire here http://www.domainehautsloire.com/
3 more here in the loire http://www.chateaude...fr/promo_en.php
4 nights wine/cookery course in bordeaux http://www.bordeauxs...com/default.htm
2 nights here http://www.chateauxmirambeau.com/
then drive back to calais stopping somewhere nice for one night.

i'd be interested to know what you all think - my points of concern are can i get to loire in one day easy enough?  and maybe the 2 places in the loire are too close?

thanks in advace for any advice.

Don't miss the Vouvray in the Touraine! Love the stuff!

The sweet Vouvray iw well worth trying too. Quite subtle. I had not heard of it until I tried it there; you'll find it in a winery called "Champion". As far as I can remember, it is in a mountain cave. In fact many of the caves are used for this purpose as the conditions are ideal. Following the wine route is fun if you are interested, but nothing like the fireworks of Burgundy or Bordeaux. It's a good spot for goats' cheese too.

With all the chateaux, the Loire is enchanting and very romantic. It looks like you have planned a lovely trip. I'd love to hear how you get on.

[HOLLY_L]

I am also planning a two-week trip to France, although about half will be in Paris. Almost my first time in France, excepting a one-night stay in Strasbourg about eight years ago.

It's hard to deciding where to go (and where to eat), but I'm sure this board will be a big help. I know reading the London forums was very helpful when I visited there last year.

Is anyone familiar with Bordeaux Saveurs (bordeauxsaveurs.com), mentioned by Menton1? I did an Internet search, but only found a couple of reviews, although those two seemed good. I have to admit that a little handholding is appealing to me, if done well.

[Busboy]

Corinna Dunne, on Jan 23 2007, 10:37 AM, said:

menton1, on Jan 22 2007, 02:28 AM, said:

gnoos, on Jan 21 2007, 07:54 AM, said:

Ok, so I'm starting to get an idea of what we're going to do.

Eurotunnel to Calais.
3 nights in the loire here http://www.domainehautsloire.com/
3 more here in the loire http://www.chateaude...fr/promo_en.php
4 nights wine/cookery course in bordeaux http://www.bordeauxs...com/default.htm
2 nights here http://www.chateauxmirambeau.com/
then drive back to calais stopping somewhere nice for one night.

i'd be interested to know what you all think - my points of concern are can i get to loire in one day easy enough?  and maybe the 2 places in the loire are too close?

thanks in advace for any advice.

Don't miss the Vouvray in the Touraine! Love the stuff!

The sweet Vouvray iw well worth trying too. Quite subtle. I had not heard of it until I tried it there; you'll find it in a winery called "Champion". As far as I can remember, it is in a mountain cave. In fact many of the caves are used for this purpose as the conditions are ideal. Following the wine route is fun if you are interested, but nothing like the fireworks of Burgundy or Bordeaux. It's a good spot for goats' cheese too.

With all the chateaux, the Loire is enchanting and very romantic. It looks like you have planned a lovely trip. I'd love to hear how you get on.

If you're in the sweet Vouvray part of the world, try as much Savennieres as possible. One of the best wine values in the world (so sez Robert Parker, not just me ) and not well known at all. A Chenin Blanc-based wine, I believe, which also comes in a sweet variety, though I prefer the regular (sour? savory?) style.