[ulterior epicure]

From her review of Tatsu's Cafe and Bar:

Quote

She poured my wine, and then Arai inspected the glass. Apparently he thought she was too generous, and I watched in dismay as he poured about a third of the wine out of my glass into another one. Then while I sipped my temperate glass of wine, I watched him use a measuring cup to precisely pour the appropriate amount of water into another glass, then use a marker to draw a black circle around the bowl. Most restaurants eyeball the amount.

Wow, that's honest reporting for you.

u.e.

This post has been edited by ulterior epicure: 20 July 2006 - 03:57 PM

[moosnsqrl]

ulterior epicure, on Jul 20 2006, 04:57 PM, said:

From her review of Tatsu's Cafe and Bar:

Quote

She poured my wine, and then Arai inspected the glass. Apparently he thought she was too generous, and I watched in dismay as he poured about a third of the wine out of my glass into another one. Then while I sipped my temperate glass of wine, I watched him use a measuring cup to precisely pour the appropriate amount of water into another glass, then use a marker to draw a black circle around the bowl. Most restaurants eyeball the amount.

Wow, that's honest reporting for you.

u.e.

I grimaced when I read that. Many restaurants/bars have those wine glasses with the magic marker line on them (sometimes even visible at the service bar) but few have the bad luck to initiate the practice in full view of a critic. Yikes.

[JWest]

ouch... that's embarassing.

[ulterior epicure]

Tonic gets 2 1/2 stars from Lauren Chapin: (Click). I still haven't visited yet, but I know JWest and moosnsqurl had seemed a bit down about their latest vists.

u.e.

[JWest]

ulterior epicure, on Aug 3 2006, 11:54 AM, said:

Tonic gets 2 1/2 stars from Lauren Chapin:  (Click).  I still haven't visited yet, but I know JWest and moosnsqurl had seemed a bit down about their latest vists.

u.e.

According to her "scale", a one star is fair. I don't understand why she didn't give it a one star... to me her experience at the restuarant was "fair"... then why doesn't she stick to her own guidelines??

I don't understand how she can give only one star less than places such as Room39, bluestem, and Starker's Reserve.

[moosnsqrl]

I'm afraid I spent my digest time stuck on I-290 (I already ranted about it on The Heartland Gathering thread, so I won't start again). I'm anxious to get caught up and see where the disconnect is between text and numeric rating.

[ulterior epicure]

I don't get it. zin doesn't read like a 3-star restaurant.

u.e.

[moosnsqrl]

ulterior epicure, on Sep 7 2006, 09:40 AM, said:

I don't get it.  zin doesn't read like a 3-star restaurant. 

u.e.

Oh, now, there you go again, UE. Always trying to apply logic to everything.

[ulterior epicure]

moosnsqrl, on Sep 7 2006, 11:04 AM, said:

ulterior epicure, on Sep 7 2006, 09:40 AM, said:

I don't get it.  zin doesn't read like a 3-star restaurant.  

u.e.

Oh, now, there you go again, UE. Always trying to apply logic to everything.

Doh... I'm asking too much again, aren't I.

[chicagowench]

From the article:

Quote

His accompaniments — a mint arugula salad, a heap of pickled red onions, sliced Missouri peaches and grilled sourdough bread — made sense, at least in theory. The fat of the liver would be cut by the salty bite of the salad and the vinegary twang of the onions. But in reality, the sides were too harsh for the sweet, delicate foie gras, although the peaches and the sourdough worked well.

and

Quote

Unfortunately, lots of the greens on the house salad were long past their freshness date, and I picked out several squishy greens from the plate.

and

Quote

All I tasted was the sage, and the ragout, made with zucchini, onions, grape tomatoes, mushrooms and yellow squash, had been overcooked, until most of the zucchini became so tender it shredded

The apologetica re: the large group arriving doesn't ring true: perhaps that explains the accompaniment on the trout being overcooked, but it sure as hell doesn't explain a kitchen plating slimy, past date salad greens! nor does it explain missteps in flavor balance and selection.

Her review reads as though 1/3-1/2 of all dishes had a serious problem. This merits 3 stars precisely....how?

[moosnsqrl]

chicagowench, on Sep 7 2006, 12:44 PM, said:

From the article:

Quote

His accompaniments — a mint arugula salad, a heap of pickled red onions, sliced Missouri peaches and grilled sourdough bread — made sense, at least in theory. The fat of the liver would be cut by the salty bite of the salad and the vinegary twang of the onions. But in reality, the sides were too harsh for the sweet, delicate foie gras, although the peaches and the sourdough worked well.

and

Quote

Unfortunately, lots of the greens on the house salad were long past their freshness date, and I picked out several squishy greens from the plate.

and

Quote

All I tasted was the sage, and the ragout, made with zucchini, onions, grape tomatoes, mushrooms and yellow squash, had been overcooked, until most of the zucchini became so tender it shredded

The apologetica re: the large group arriving doesn't ring true: perhaps that explains the accompaniment on the trout being overcooked, but it sure as hell doesn't explain a kitchen plating slimy, past date salad greens! nor does it explain missteps in flavor balance and selection.

Her review reads as though 1/3-1/2 of all dishes had a serious problem. This merits 3 stars precisely....how?

Oh, no! Not you, too

Perhaps we're just too dense to crack the code? The duh-Vinci code of star ratings?

Maybe it's just a concidence but I noticed (and pointed out) upthread that the more-or-less-permanent listings (under the title "The Star Recommends") features only previously reviewed restaurants that received 3 stars or better. So, although those of us who follow and scrutinize such things may find the numeric rating INconsistent with the prosaic description, it would be represent a bit more of a slap to give less than three as they would not appear in print until she reviews them again. Not saying it's right - just speculating about the possible explanation for the apparent discrepancy.

Edited because I left off two letters rather important to the meaning.

This post has been edited by moosnsqrl: 07 September 2006 - 03:34 PM

[ulterior epicure]

moosnsqrl, on Sep 7 2006, 01:52 PM, said:

[Maybe it's just a concidence but I noticed (and pointed out) upthread that the more-or-less-permanent listings (under the title "The Star Recommends") features only previously reviewed restaurants that received 3 stars or better.  So, although those of us who follow and scrutinize such things may find the numeric rating consistent with the prosaic description, it would be represent a bit more of a slap to give less than three as they would not appear in print until she reviews them again.  Not saying it's right - just speculating about the possible explanation for the apparent discrepancy.

Nice try, but that's no excuse.

Le Bernardin was not reviewed for nearly a decade by the NY Times - and yes, it was given 4 stars, but it was agreed by all to be 4 stars well deserved. I remember holding my breath as I read Frank Bruni's re-evaluation last year (?) re-enforcing LB's 4 stars.

Daniel, on the other hand, had been demoted to 3 stars by William Grimes in 1999, but was quickly re-evaluated and re-instated by the same critic just two years later... and that's in NYC, where there are TONS more restaurants than in KC. But then again, Grimes was critic for 5 years. How long as Chapin been a critic?

My point: if the restaurant's not good, the critic should reflect that, not only in prose but in rating... and if the critic thinks there's a compelling reason to re-evaluate, then they should. I know, I know, I'm askin' too much again...

[ulterior epicure]

By the way, the bartender is Susan Avery, NOT, Susan Harvey... I'm sure that's not a misspelling, it's just a case of mistaken identity.

[moosnsqrl]

ulterior epicure, on Sep 7 2006, 03:12 PM, said:

By the way, the bartender is Susan Avery, NOT, Susan Harvey...  I'm sure that's not a misspelling, it's just a case of mistaken identity. 

No, I'm pretty sure her last name is "and Lazer."

[Aaron Deacon]

Gosh, I can't believe my first KC post on this board is to this thread, but I have to express my shock that in Chapin's review today of Shields Manor Bistro, she ordered the same entree (steak au poivre) on both visits. What? It's not like she said the first one was so bad she wanted to offer a chance at redemption. Sure, she says there are only 4 or 5 menu entrees. But the same entree on each visit!?

Anyway, a little quick background, I moved from Chicago to Mission last month. Over the past several years I've posted intermittently on eGullet, was pretty active on Chowhound for a time, and then moved over to LTHForum, my online base of operations, when it started up. I still hang out there quite often, but I'm casting about now for some good KC-area food discussion.

Cheers,

Aaron

P.S. What is monkfish's restaurant?

[ulterior epicure]

Aaron - welcome to KC!! Thanks for the post - I need to read her review rightaway. Stick around, I think you'll like us KC'ers on eG!

u.e.

P.S. monkfish's resto is SORedux.

This post has been edited by ulterior epicure: 14 September 2006 - 07:45 AM

[Aaron Deacon]

ulterior epicure, on Sep 14 2006, 07:42 AM, said:

P.S. monkfish's resto is SORedux.

Thanks, that was what I thought, until I saw that the SORedux chef had posted a "question" on Chapin's Q&A. I like the idea Freedom Gras, though.

[chicagowench]

Welcome to the KC area, Aaron!

I am curious as well as to why she only tried...the steak. Especially when a restaurant has such a limited menu, it seems even more important to sample as much of it as possible.

[ulterior epicure]

chicagowench, on Sep 14 2006, 12:22 PM, said:

Welcome to the KC area, Aaron!

I am curious as well as to why she only tried...the steak.  Especially when a restaurant has such a limited menu, it seems even more important to sample as much of it as possible.

... and I'm wondering on what basis she gets to review a restaurant after two visits? I don't think she went more than twice based on the article... AND both times steak.

u.e.

[ronnie_suburban]

A quick welcome to Aaron whose posts at LTH I have I always enjoyed. Now, back to the topic at hand, please.

=R=

[moosnsqrl]

Yes, welcome, Aaron. Sorry I wasn't there to greet you when you arrived

Back on topic (since Ronnie seems determined to try and herd cats ). . .

We all seem to share disappointment, dismay and dissatisfaction with the quality and consistency of the reviewing. May I suggest contacting the Readers' Representative with specific, concrete examples and concerns? I have corresponded a bit with the editor of Preview but I think it might be more effective to step outside of that editorial 'vertical' and draw-in a more neutral third party. I would particularly encourage those who are recently relocated to KC - it's been a decade since I lived outside The Star's territory and, although I read other critics online, it's not quite the same as having reliable, trustworthy reviews where you live. It seems Aaron, in particular, who just arrived and may want some guidance to KC restaurants, has a legitimate concern to take to them.

KC Star's Readers' Representative

[monkfish_103]

moosnsqrl, on Sep 15 2006, 08:34 AM, said:

Yes, welcome, Aaron.  Sorry I wasn't there to greet you when you arrived

Back on topic (since Ronnie seems determined to try and herd cats ). . .

We all seem to share disappointment, dismay and dissatisfaction with the quality and consistency of the reviewing.  May I suggest contacting the Readers' Representative with specific, concrete examples and concerns?  I have corresponded a bit with the editor of Preview but I think it might be more effective to step outside of that editorial 'vertical' and draw-in a more neutral third party.  I would particularly encourage those who are recently relocated to KC - it's been a decade since I lived outside The Star's territory and, although I read other critics online, it's not quite the same as having reliable, trustworthy reviews where you live.  It seems Aaron, in particular, who just arrived and may want some guidance to KC restaurants, has a legitimate concern to take to them.

KC Star's Readers' Representative

I would hate to be a food critic and thank god I'm not! My hate mail would be tripple as what it is now already. A critic is just an opion it's not a grade that remains on your tombstone it's not life or death.
The critic at the pitch is a joke, I've known him 12 years or so, Judy loves him cause he tosses her name around on the hotdog and chili show on 89.3 that show is a total waste of radio waves. The KC mag food critic is a really jacked she came into my restaurant and professed she was a vegan and turns around and proclaims Ruth Chris has the best steak in the city(on that same hot dog show) she so bad the editor of KC mag won't let her do the hot dog show any more, she does it now. I think maybe Katie is so stuck on herself and wants to be someone that why she does the show also. Chris at Ingrams is a very sweet lady but I wouldn't let her decide where I should dine at. The KCstar has issues also, I know if some one served me a piece of shoe leather I wouldn't give them 3.5 stars, but she takes alot into thought when she reviews.
Some of the best critics are bloggers, but most of them don't know sweet breads from pastries.
But hey look at us on this site do we have such a lowly life that this is our hobby? Or we have to swoop down on a restaurant and "take one for the gang" hmmmm....I think we should keep all the critics we deserve them!

[David Crum]

monkfish_103, on Sep 15 2006, 11:16 AM, said:

moosnsqrl, on Sep 15 2006, 08:34 AM, said:

Yes, welcome, Aaron.  Sorry I wasn't there to greet you when you arrived

Back on topic (since Ronnie seems determined to try and herd cats ). . .

We all seem to share disappointment, dismay and dissatisfaction with the quality and consistency of the reviewing.  May I suggest contacting the Readers' Representative with specific, concrete examples and concerns?  I have corresponded a bit with the editor of Preview but I think it might be more effective to step outside of that editorial 'vertical' and draw-in a more neutral third party.  I would particularly encourage those who are recently relocated to KC - it's been a decade since I lived outside The Star's territory and, although I read other critics online, it's not quite the same as having reliable, trustworthy reviews where you live.  It seems Aaron, in particular, who just arrived and may want some guidance to KC restaurants, has a legitimate concern to take to them.

KC Star's Readers' Representative

I would hate to be a food critic and thank god I'm not! My hate mail would be tripple as what it is now already. A critic is just an opion it's not a grade that remains on your tombstone it's not life or death.
The critic at the pitch is a joke, I've known him 12 years or so, Judy loves him cause he tosses her name around on the hotdog and chili show on 89.3 that show is a total waste of radio waves. The KC mag food critic is a really jacked she came into my restaurant and professed she was a vegan and turns around and proclaims Ruth Chris has the best steak in the city(on that same hot dog show) she so bad the editor of KC mag won't let her do the hot dog show any more, she does it now. I think maybe Katie is so stuck on herself and wants to be someone that why she does the show also. Chris at Ingrams is a very sweet lady but I wouldn't let her decide where I should dine at. The KCstar has issues also, I know if some one served me a piece of shoe leather I wouldn't give them 3.5 stars, but she takes alot into thought when she reviews.
Some of the best critics are bloggers, but most of them don't know sweet breads from pastries.
But hey look at us on this site do we have such a lowly life that this is our hobby? Or we have to swoop down on a restaurant and "take one for the gang" hmmmm....I think we should keep all the critics we deserve them!

I would very much like to know which critics opinions do you respect? (be they professional, blogger, local or national)

Dave

[moosnsqrl]

monkfish_103, on Sep 15 2006, 10:16 AM, said:

Judy loves him cause he tosses her name around

I have never met, nor spoken to Charles Ferruzza in my life, nor have I ever heard my name mentioned on the show. Curious where you got those ideas?

Quote

The KCstar has issues also, I know if some one served me a piece of shoe leather I wouldn't give them 3.5 stars, but she takes alot into thought when she reviews.

I don't understand how you reconcile these two points but if you're willing to overlook 3.5-star shoe leather and still give her props for thoughtfulness, so be it.

I think, if you will re-read (or perhaps read for the first time) my post, you will see that I encourage citing specific examples of the inconsistencies, etc as discussed upthread in the interest of improving the reviews. There are more productive ways to express yourself than ad hominem attacks and it seems more genuine to direct our concerns to the publication - as I have regarding other sections of the paper, not just restaurant reviews - that is, in fact, what the Reader's Representative is for.

[monkfish_103]

[/quote]

I would very much like to know which critics opinions do you respect? (be they professional, blogger, local or national)
[/quote]
I don't have any respect for anyone that makes a name or a living off of other peoples passions, Blogger, local or national. I did make mention of my rating the star gave me on my website, just because the tourists need a horse to follow. Everyone that pays attention to any food write up is a sap, they are unable of thinking and making jugdement calls for themselves.

[monkfish_103]

[[/quote]
I have never met, nor spoken to Charles Ferruzza in my life, nor have I ever heard my name mentioned on the show. Curious where you got those ideas?

Quote

Sorry if I heard charlie call you one his is closest friends on the hot dog show a month or so ago.

[

I don't understand how you reconcile these two points but if you're willing to overlook 3.5-star shoe leather and still give her props for thoughtfulness, so be it.
[quote]

She has a soft spot for independent restaurants that are small, I know I'm a living example.

This post has been edited by monkfish_103: 15 September 2006 - 11:43 AM

[Zeemanb]

monkfish_103, on Sep 15 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

I don't have any respect for anyone that makes a name or a living off of other peoples passions, Blogger, local or national.

Don't chefs make their living off of the passions of others? If "passion" was really the only driving factor, why would they open a restaurant at all?

monkfish_103, on Sep 15 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

Everyone that pays attention to any food write up is a sap, they are unable of thinking and making jugdement calls for themselves.

So what are the alternatives for finding out about different restaurants, styles of cuisine, etc., if it were not for someone ELSE writing about it? Word of mouth only? Leave it to deep pocketed advertisers to let you know whose food is the best?

Is anyone who dines at your restaurant because of Chapin's or Ferruza's reviews a sap?

[monkfish_103]

Zeemanb, on Sep 15 2006, 12:34 PM, said:

monkfish_103, on Sep 15 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

I don't have any respect for anyone that makes a name or a living off of other peoples passions, Blogger, local or national.

Don't chefs make their living off of the passions of others? If "passion" was really the only driving factor, why would they open a restaurant at all?

monkfish_103, on Sep 15 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

Everyone that pays attention to any food write up is a sap, they are unable of thinking and making jugdement calls for themselves.

So what are the alternatives for finding out about different restaurants, styles of cuisine, etc., if it were not for someone ELSE writing about it? Word of mouth only? Leave it to deep pocketed advertisers to let you know whose food is the best?

Is anyone who dines at your restaurant because of Chapin's or Ferruza's reviews a sap?

Gee gosh Jerry I don't know why Why did I work for free for a year in restaurants? I opened my restaurant for me not for every sap out there looking for a new place to open up and run just to be seen. That's why I don't give any choices on the menu, that's why I tell veggie heads to go away. That's why I advertise in a gay publication because I want open minded customers, that's why I don't take walkins. That's why I don't offer a food menu in my wine lounge because I don't need miss fathead hanging around just waiting to be seen.

Anyone that stickly goes by what the write ups say is a sap and I don't want them here. So If that's the only reason they came then they are saps, and I could care less.

[Zeemanb]

monkfish_103, on Sep 15 2006, 02:48 PM, said:

Gee gosh Jerry I don't know why Why did I work for free for a year in restaurants? I opened my restaurant for me not for every sap out there looking for a new place to open up and run just to be seen. That's why I don't give any choices on the menu, that's why I tell veggie heads to go away. That's why I advertise in a gay publication because I want open minded customers, that's why I don't take walkins. That's why I don't offer a food menu in my wine lounge because I don't need miss fathead hanging around just waiting to be seen.

Anyone that stickly goes by what the write ups say is a sap and I don't want them here. So If that's the only reason they came then they are saps, and I could care less.

It sounds like you make some very broad, general assumptions about the ignorance of diners in general, which you are totally within your rights to do. You're in the business, I'm sure you've come up against the worst types of customers imaginable, AND you have your soup nazi schtick to protect.

However, if you truly believe or live by what you say.....why do you REALLY keep the Star rating on your website? Is the tourist trade it provides really preferable to all the other types of diners you mention? If your bread and butter comes from advertising in alternative periodicals and keeping things on more of a grassroots level, it seems like it would make more sense to mention what they have to say on your site. Just curious. On one hand it you make it sound like EVERYONE who dines because of a review or blog is a sap, then you change it to say anyone who lives and dies by them is a sap.....you hammer the local critics, but then you keep their stars on your website.

Seems kind of inconsistent, but then again I'm not overly bright.

[monkfish_103]

The main reason it is on my site is because when I working for two chicago chefs they made the statement in the kitchen to cooks and to other people that wanted to open up restaurants that chefs from Kansas City couldn't cook and not to waste your time with them. The last two places to recive a four star rating from the star were both mine. Only two restaurants in town have a current four star rating mine and Le fou frog. So it's my way of saying stick it up your sardine. I was with Le Fou Frog both times when Mano was awarded four stars.