[ChefCAG]

Damn you people get up early!

[ChefCAG]

monkfish_103, on Jul 14 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

Quote

Im not a big fan of the Zagat, with ratings of Tatsu's(KS) and Daniel(NY) being extremely close to each other makes no sense.

I'm really not a big fan of any type of rating system, when the star did the review I refused to let them take a picture I asked not to have a review same with the Pitch. When food & wine called I sent them on their way. When the Zagat called I told them to go away also. I made Ingrams sign a contract before she dinned she couldn't review me. I had Kansas City Mag pull out everything about me in their Mag. some airline called a few months back, same response. Spaces mag I sent them on their way also. I'm just a cook cooking food, It is what it is. I think ratings are a joke to begain with. Everyone has two things and one of them is an opion well I'll leave the other item out because I'm in a good mood today.

That's funny, Food & Wine never called me until it was done. Hmmm... come to think of it neither did Zagat. Same with KC mag and all the airline magazines. Why are these people calling you? Seems strange the want you to know their comming.

[ronnie_suburban]

ulterior epicure, on Jul 15 2006, 07:42 AM, said:

moosnsqrl, on Jul 15 2006, 06:35 AM, said:

I'm surprised also to think that anyone takes Zagat seriously.  I guess, from an economic perspective, it can have an affect on how much out of town traffic you get coming through your door, but in terms of actual quality it's like letting fans vote on who plays in the all star game.  Oh, wait, they do that, too.

I use it as a directory. It's certainly more comprehensive than any of the ones we have around here...

Me too. I keep a copy in the car and it's quite useful. And I think that more times than not the overall ratings provided in Zagat are fairly accurate. But, you have to beware any source of information in which the contributors are not required to prove they've actually eaten at the establishments they are rating.

=R=

[moosnsqrl]

ronnie_suburban, on Jul 15 2006, 10:26 AM, said:

I use it as a directory.  It's certainly more comprehensive than any of the ones we have around here... Me too.  I keep a copy in the car and it's quite useful.  And I think that more times than not the overall ratings provided in Zagat are fairly accurate.  But, you have to beware any source of information in which the contributors are not required to prove they've actually eaten at the establishments they are rating.

=R=

And you have to be able to ignore all of those damned quotation marks!
But your caveat is exactly why I've never really lent any credence to it. I get the survey, I do complete it and I believe they sent me a free copy for participating (although I couldn't tell you where it is - probably recycled). But the fact that I could just say anything about any restaurant without having eaten there [I don't, but. . .] is kind of scary.

[monkfish_103]

ChefCAG, on Jul 15 2006, 07:19 AM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 14 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

Quote

Im not a big fan of the Zagat, with ratings of Tatsu's(KS) and Daniel(NY) being extremely close to each other makes no sense.

I'm really not a big fan of any type of rating system, when the star did the review I refused to let them take a picture I asked not to have a review same with the Pitch. When food & wine called I sent them on their way. When the Zagat called I told them to go away also. I made Ingrams sign a contract before she dinned she couldn't review me. I had Kansas City Mag pull out everything about me in their Mag. some airline called a few months back, same response. Spaces mag I sent them on their way also. I'm just a cook cooking food, It is what it is. I think ratings are a joke to begain with. Everyone has two things and one of them is an opion well I'll leave the other item out because I'm in a good mood today.

That's funny, Food & Wine never called me until it was done. Hmmm... come to think of it neither did Zagat. Same with KC mag and all the airline magazines. Why are these people calling you? Seems strange the want you to know their comming.

Food and wine called because they were interested in my wine list, I told them F*** off and call you Colby, they were doing a story on wines in the heartland. Zagat called because they wanted to add me as a write in and they wanted the correct information. I'm not going to toy with their joke of a rating scale. Did I say they were coming? You need to get your head out of your foie gras, But hey if stroud's can top zagat and do a beard dinner I guess anyone can. the beard is such a joke.

[chicagowench]

ChefCAG, on Jul 15 2006, 07:14 AM, said:

Damn you people get up early!

Or we just never sleep

See, regarding restaurant press here, I don't even feel like I get a pair of slippers instead of a bike on Christmas morning. Perhaps I'm spoiled by having lived in Chicago for so long, with a vibrant restaurant press scene.

Quote

And I agree with UE on the general inconsistency - whether or not you ever agree with a critic (Bruni being a good example, since so many people pointedly do NOT agree with him), at least if you can benchmark against a review it is of value. And I, too, do not feel that's possible with Lauren's column.

And, not to bash Lauren or any reviewer specifically, as moosnsqrl went on to say she was avoiding, I too have that problem here. I can't benchmark against anyone. And so it's why, when I do meet someone whom I share a dining ethos with, I rely on them- whether it's calling them up and asking them about where they've been recently, or having a fast exchange of comments on their blog. While monkfish103 may feel, regarding amateurs not posting about bad experiences:

Quote

I wish some blogger's shared the same view.

I am slavishly grateful when an erudite, smart person throws themselves out there for rotten tomatoes, particularly since it's hard to find good, consistent restaurant criticism out here. Shitflinging for the sake of shitflinging? No. But a well thought out, clear, insightful blog entry about a restaurant? Incredibly helpful to me. Do I ever think a blogger is a pro critic? No. Do I take their opinion to be gospel? No. Do I elect to avoid a restaurant based on one person's petty bitching post on their livejournal account? No. Among those who take the time to write detailed, balanced pieces, posts on their blogs (and a few on here) have helped me have better experiences at restaurants, without a doubt.

Hell, on my own blog I pointed out problems at two of my favorite places (Bluestem and Avenues). And, given my chats with the chefs at both places, I don't think they hold that against me. Uh, GEB, CAG, lemme know if I'm now on the persona non grata lists.

[ulterior epicure]

chicagowench, on Jul 15 2006, 03:37 PM, said:

Hell, on my own blog I pointed out problems at two of my favorite places (Bluestem and Avenues).  And, given my chats with the chefs at both places, I don't think they hold that against me.  Uh, GEB, CAG, lemme know if I'm now on the persona non grata lists.

ChefCAG and I have joked about my initial comments about bluestem on my blog... and ditto with GEB. If I've joined you, wench, on the personae non gratae list, then they're doing a good job of hiding it.

u.e.

[JWest]

monkfish_103, on Jul 15 2006, 02:28 PM, said:

the beard is such a joke.

Far from it, The James Beard Foundation is an extremely useful tool and organization with education and food culture. The foundation is responsible for giving thousands of thousands of dollars to young students who may not be able to afford post secondary education and would like to make the best of it. I hardly find it a joke to see many dedicated young people who want to educate their mind in whatever they feel is necessary for there future careers.

Also, 99% of the best chefs in the country are involved with the James Beard Foundation. The standards of these chefs exceed much higher than any other organized group of culinarians such as the closed minded ACF. It's no longer just a foundation or "organization" but a community as well. It's not like Strouds won Best of the Midwest or anything anyways.

The James Beard Foundation has increased the awareness of quality standards in the food undustry and has given an opportunity of all kinds of chefs to shine when their has come. There's nothing wrong with covering all different kinds of cuisine, restuarants, food, chefs, and ideas. That's why the U.S. is very unique, we are diversed in many ways that has shaped this country's cuisine into being extremely diverse. Sure, it's had some problems behind the scenes but it still carries the same tradition of recognizing chefs and educating people. Even Ferran Adria who doesn't have to do anything for anyone or anything is involved with the James Beard Foundation. Thomas Keller, Daniel Boulud, Jean-George, Grant Achatz, Gary Danko, and I definetly know Charlie Trotter wouldn't put his name on it if he thought it was a joke.


By calling this country's best culinary community a joke is extremely humorous and revolting. It's just foolish to think like that.

This post has been edited by JWest: 15 July 2006 - 11:54 PM

[bandregg]

chicagowench, on Jul 14 2006, 11:40 PM, said:

Man, yes.  Time after time I try to dig up information on places here, and find lousy- if they even exist- web sites.  The new French bakery here in OP?  Dreadful site (granted, they're selling out every day, even with the site, but it's not user friendly, it's off-putting).  Having a great site is not a matter of shilling oneself to the reviewers or critics- it's putting your restaurant out there in the new way people are looking for places, and I wish more restaurants and groups of restaurants around here would get that. 

Off topic, but I've been out of the Kansas City food loop for over nine years. Is this bakery any good, what's it called and where is it located?

[ulterior epicure]

bandregg, on Jul 16 2006, 06:22 AM, said:

Off topic, but I've been out of the Kansas City food loop for over nine years. Is this bakery any good, what's it called and where is it located?

bandregg.

If I'm not mistaken, a discussion about the bakery that chicagowench was referring to can be found here.

Hope this helps.
u.e.

[monkfish_103]

JWest, on Jul 15 2006, 11:52 PM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 15 2006, 02:28 PM, said:

the beard is such a joke.

Far from it, The James Beard Foundation is an extremely useful tool and organization with education and food culture. The foundation is responsible for giving thousands of thousands of dollars to young students who may not be able to afford post secondary education and would like to make the best of it. I hardly find it a joke to see many dedicated young people who want to educate their mind in whatever they feel is necessary for there future careers.

Also, 99% of the best chefs in the country are involved with the James Beard Foundation. The standards of these chefs exceed much higher than any other organized group of culinarians such as the closed minded ACF. It's no longer just a foundation or "organization" but a community as well. It's not like Strouds won Best of the Midwest or anything anyways.

The James Beard Foundation has increased the awareness of quality standards in the food undustry and has given an opportunity of all kinds of chefs to shine when their has come. There's nothing wrong with covering all different kinds of cuisine, restuarants, food, chefs, and ideas. That's why the U.S. is very unique, we are diversed in many ways that has shaped this country's cuisine into being extremely diverse. Sure, it's had some problems behind the scenes but it still carries the same tradition of recognizing chefs and educating people. Even Ferran Adria who doesn't have to do anything for anyone or anything is involved with the James Beard Foundation. Thomas Keller, Daniel Boulud, Jean-George, Grant Achatz, Gary Danko, and I definetly know Charlie Trotter wouldn't put his name on it if he thought it was a joke.


By calling this country's best culinary community a joke is extremely humorous and revolting. It's just foolish to think like that.

You never found it kind of funny that hmmm....I'll give you an example...The American Restaurant before they opened their doors hired this dude name James Beard to consult for them......and Poof low and behold on their 25th anniversy the chefs there recieved an award from the foundation, only after the Halls spent about a million or so to promote the foundation?....The foundtion was great about 15 years ago, now it's just a machine with no tools, other than the ones it so calls invite (if you want to call it an invite). It is what it is!

[JWest]

monkfish_103, on Jul 16 2006, 10:18 AM, said:

JWest, on Jul 15 2006, 11:52 PM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 15 2006, 02:28 PM, said:

the beard is such a joke.

Far from it, The James Beard Foundation is an extremely useful tool and organization with education and food culture. The foundation is responsible for giving thousands of thousands of dollars to young students who may not be able to afford post secondary education and would like to make the best of it. I hardly find it a joke to see many dedicated young people who want to educate their mind in whatever they feel is necessary for there future careers.

Also, 99% of the best chefs in the country are involved with the James Beard Foundation. The standards of these chefs exceed much higher than any other organized group of culinarians such as the closed minded ACF. It's no longer just a foundation or "organization" but a community as well. It's not like Strouds won Best of the Midwest or anything anyways.

The James Beard Foundation has increased the awareness of quality standards in the food undustry and has given an opportunity of all kinds of chefs to shine when their has come. There's nothing wrong with covering all different kinds of cuisine, restuarants, food, chefs, and ideas. That's why the U.S. is very unique, we are diversed in many ways that has shaped this country's cuisine into being extremely diverse. Sure, it's had some problems behind the scenes but it still carries the same tradition of recognizing chefs and educating people. Even Ferran Adria who doesn't have to do anything for anyone or anything is involved with the James Beard Foundation. Thomas Keller, Daniel Boulud, Jean-George, Grant Achatz, Gary Danko, and I definetly know Charlie Trotter wouldn't put his name on it if he thought it was a joke.


By calling this country's best culinary community a joke is extremely humorous and revolting. It's just foolish to think like that.

You never found it kind of funny that hmmm....I'll give you an example...The American Restaurant before they opened their doors hired this dude name James Beard to consult for them......and Poof low and behold on their 25th anniversy the chefs there recieved an award from the foundation, only after the Halls spent about a million or so to promote the foundation?....The foundtion was great about 15 years ago, now it's just a machine with no tools, other than the ones it so calls invite (if you want to call it an invite). It is what it is!

Celina Tio's hosting of The American Restaurant's Friends of Benefits Dinner 10th Anniversary in 2005 didn't help her win anything. Maybe its because Smith and Gold had a menu that was worthy of the award!? The year they won the best of MidWest (ITS NOT EVEN THE BEST CHEF or OUTSTANDING RESTAURANT AWARD!!!) was the year when the MidWest was consider the weakest out of all areas in the Nation. Their menu and production came out on top, the staff at the time had future Kansas City Stars... hmm it's interesting to see that well almost the whole kitchen staff all run the best kitchens in the City now and some in the East Coast! They had the perfect combination of chef power, kitchen talent, products, service, ambience, you name it they had it. The only reason someone would discredit an award as small as something like the Best of MidWest from Gold&Smith is because they are stuck in the times of the Rex Hale Era. Also, the Awards Ceremony is one day out of the whole year. They don't just sit on thier "foie gras" for the rest of the year.

Also, ANYONE can vote for the nominations!

This post has been edited by JWest: 16 July 2006 - 12:52 PM

[Big Country]

monkfish_103, on Jul 16 2006, 11:18 AM, said:

JWest, on Jul 15 2006, 11:52 PM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 15 2006, 02:28 PM, said:

the beard is such a joke.

Far from it, The James Beard Foundation is an extremely useful tool and organization with education and food culture. The foundation is responsible for giving thousands of thousands of dollars to young students who may not be able to afford post secondary education and would like to make the best of it. I hardly find it a joke to see many dedicated young people who want to educate their mind in whatever they feel is necessary for there future careers.

Also, 99% of the best chefs in the country are involved with the James Beard Foundation. The standards of these chefs exceed much higher than any other organized group of culinarians such as the closed minded ACF. It's no longer just a foundation or "organization" but a community as well. It's not like Strouds won Best of the Midwest or anything anyways.

The James Beard Foundation has increased the awareness of quality standards in the food undustry and has given an opportunity of all kinds of chefs to shine when their has come. There's nothing wrong with covering all different kinds of cuisine, restuarants, food, chefs, and ideas. That's why the U.S. is very unique, we are diversed in many ways that has shaped this country's cuisine into being extremely diverse. Sure, it's had some problems behind the scenes but it still carries the same tradition of recognizing chefs and educating people. Even Ferran Adria who doesn't have to do anything for anyone or anything is involved with the James Beard Foundation. Thomas Keller, Daniel Boulud, Jean-George, Grant Achatz, Gary Danko, and I definetly know Charlie Trotter wouldn't put his name on it if he thought it was a joke.


By calling this country's best culinary community a joke is extremely humorous and revolting. It's just foolish to think like that.

You never found it kind of funny that hmmm....I'll give you an example...The American Restaurant before they opened their doors hired this dude name James Beard to consult for them......and Poof low and behold on their 25th anniversy the chefs there recieved an award from the foundation, only after the Halls spent about a million or so to promote the foundation?....The foundtion was great about 15 years ago, now it's just a machine with no tools, other than the ones it so calls invite (if you want to call it an invite). It is what it is!

M&D put KC on the Map for fine dining and in the national spot light. Bradley Ogden didn't win a beard award while at the American. Chef Tio hasn't .

If anyone thinks that the only reason that M&D won the Beard award was cause they were at the American they are dead wrong. They got it from a lot of hard work. They were so far ahead of everyone else in this city at that tume it wasn't funny. And IMO it is amazing that they were able to win a Beard award here in KC. We are in the middle of nowhere and they were the tip of the sword cutting the culinary scene open here.

[monkfish_103]

Quote

M&D put KC on the Map for fine dining and in the national spot light.  Bradley Ogden didn't win a beard award while at the American.  Chef Tio hasn't .

I don't think M&G put us on the map, I think places like La Mediterranee, La Bonee Auberge, Cafe Allegro, The Venu & Jasper's helpped put M&G on the map. M&G weren't that cutting edge, I remember when we hired this guy at the stolen grille he just came from the American under M&G he told me after only spending a month there he had learned all he could from M&G. I was with them about a year and a half, was it cutting edge? NO, it was basic cuisine. I remember alot of the verbal degrading from M&G to the cooks that worked under them and their views on Home town Kansas City Chefs in general. Bradley was hired there as a sous chef fresh out of the CIA six months later he became the chef and moved on within two years. Rex was maybe the only truely cutting edge the american has ever had. He was Manic with out his meds he was out of control. John before M&G was paving the way the American was going Debbie was just hired to consult, then Micheal came after that. Nobody is doing anything cutting edge in this town and never has, never will cuisine just chases it tail like everything else. The more it changes the more it stays the same.

[ulterior epicure]

I'm a little confused... monkfish, do you mean M&D, not M&G? Who are M&G?

u.e.

[Big Country]

monkfish_103, on Jul 17 2006, 11:57 AM, said:

Quote

M&D put KC on the Map for fine dining and in the national spot light.  Bradley Ogden didn't win a beard award while at the American.  Chef Tio hasn't .

I don't think M&G put us on the map, I think places like La Mediterranee, La Bonee Auberge, Cafe Allegro, The Venu & Jasper's helpped put M&G on the map. M&G weren't that cutting edge, I remember when we hired this guy at the stolen grille he just came from the American under M&G he told me after only spending a month there he had learned all he could from M&G. I was with them about a year and a half, was it cutting edge? NO, it was basic cuisine. I remember alot of the verbal degrading from M&G to the cooks that worked under them and their views on Home town Kansas City Chefs in general. Bradley was hired there as a sous chef fresh out of the CIA six months later he became the chef and moved on within two years. Rex was maybe the only truely cutting edge the american has ever had. He was Manic with out his meds he was out of control. John before M&G was paving the way the American was going Debbie was just hired to consult, then Micheal came after that. Nobody is doing anything cutting edge in this town and never has, never will cuisine just chases it tail like everything else. The more it changes the more it stays the same.

Of all of those Restaurants you named how many are open now?????? I have worked and trailed at several restaurants under top Chefs. When they think of Kansas City it is M&D. I bet most of them have never heard of Jasper's!! If anyone thinks that they can learn everything that any Chef has to offer in one month they are wrong. I worked with them for 3 years in two separtate restaurant. As a cook and as a Sous Chef. They still would be the first people that I would ask for advice in the industry.

The only time I have ever saw either of them get on a cook it was justified. Inclueding me. They demand a very high level in their kitchen and if some people can not live up to their standards then they will let them know it.

There is a great say that goes,"IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN" There are no excuses in excellence, and I will not make any for them because they are two Great Chefs and every Chef in this city should recognize that quite obviously. If not then they are blindfolded.

[bandregg]

I left Kansas City in 1997. I was just starting to search out new dining experiences at that time and the best meals that I was eating were at smaller ethnic places that didn't reflect midwestern cuisine at all. If pressed then to name the best places to eat in the city they would have fallen to steak houses and formal Italian restaurants. Now, researching places to eat while back visiting my family before I go off to culinary school I find menus online for places like Bluestem, SoRedux, Robert Krause's, and Pachamama, and these are the kind of places I want to take my parents, who don't care much about food, to and say, "This. This is what I want to do!" On the scale of Barcelona, London, or New York they might not seem cutting edge. For Kansas City they are a change and one for the better. "Malaspina Oysters, Champagne Emulsion, Parsley" (Bluestem) isn't chasing the tail of strip steaks and family-style mashed potatoes.
In reading this thread, monkfish, I can't help but feel you're rebelling against not just the local restaurant scene, but the industry as a whole, and it gives me pause.

[monkfish_103]

ulterior epicure, on Jul 17 2006, 10:16 AM, said:

I'm a little confused... monkfish, do you mean M&D, not M&G?  Who are M&G?

u.e.

M&G= Micheal & Gold, I have my reasons.

[monkfish_103]

Big Country, on Jul 17 2006, 10:24 AM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 17 2006, 11:57 AM, said:

Quote

M&D put KC on the Map for fine dining and in the national spot light.  Bradley Ogden didn't win a beard award while at the American.  Chef Tio hasn't .

I don't think M&G put us on the map, I think places like La Mediterranee, La Bonee Auberge, Cafe Allegro, The Venu & Jasper's helpped put M&G on the map. M&G weren't that cutting edge, I remember when we hired this guy at the stolen grille he just came from the American under M&G he told me after only spending a month there he had learned all he could from M&G. I was with them about a year and a half, was it cutting edge? NO, it was basic cuisine. I remember alot of the verbal degrading from M&G to the cooks that worked under them and their views on Home town Kansas City Chefs in general. Bradley was hired there as a sous chef fresh out of the CIA six months later he became the chef and moved on within two years. Rex was maybe the only truely cutting edge the american has ever had. He was Manic with out his meds he was out of control. John before M&G was paving the way the American was going Debbie was just hired to consult, then Micheal came after that. Nobody is doing anything cutting edge in this town and never has, never will cuisine just chases it tail like everything else. The more it changes the more it stays the same.

Of all of those Restaurants you named how many are open now?????? I have worked and trailed at several restaurants under top Chefs. When they think of Kansas City it is M&D. I bet most of them have never heard of Jasper's!! If anyone thinks that they can learn everything that any Chef has to offer in one month they are wrong. I worked with them for 3 years in two separtate restaurant. As a cook and as a Sous Chef. They still would be the first people that I would ask for advice in the industry.

The only time I have ever saw either of them get on a cook it was justified. Inclueding me. They demand a very high level in their kitchen and if some people can not live up to their standards then they will let them know it.

There is a great say that goes,"IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN" There are no excuses in excellence, and I will not make any for them because they are two Great Chefs and every Chef in this city should recognize that quite obviously. If not then they are blindfolded.

We both worked for them at two seperate times, I'm going to couch my words out of the little respect I have for them. So how bout those dodgers?

[ulterior epicure]

monkfish_103, on Jul 17 2006, 01:16 PM, said:

We both worked for them at two seperate times, I'm going to couch my words out of the little respect I have for them. So how bout those dodgers?

... moving along...

Did anyone read Chapin's review of Cafe Maison? Anyone care to step up and say that the food was on par with, say bluestem or 40 Sardines? (She gave C.M. 3 1/2 stars for food)

u.e.

This post has been edited by ulterior epicure: 18 July 2006 - 11:15 AM

[JWest]

I don't know when Monkfish worked for M&D but I know that they were doing a lot better food in the years they were nominated and won the by eard award. I guess not better, but more innovative. Possibly you didn't have the opportunity to see what they were made of at the time. Rex may have been great at what he does but M&D mean much more to Kansas City than Rex. Although, I have never seen his work or menus, I have only heard of stories about him from people who have worked with him.

Mike and Debbie made a huge impact with the City by their accomplishments. I was too young to see any of it but I have been impacted by them in a tremendous way in different aspects and different ways. If only they were still doing that style of food but they still uphold quality at 40 sardines just in a different way.

I've considered them as the King and Queen of Kansas City Food.

[JWest]

ulterior epicure, on Jul 18 2006, 12:13 PM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 17 2006, 01:16 PM, said:

We both worked for them at two seperate times, I'm going to couch my words out of the little respect I have for them. So how bout those dodgers?

... moving along...

Did anyone read Chapin's review of Cafe Maison? Anyone care to step up and say that the food was on par with, say bluestem or 40 Sardines? (She gave C.M. 3 1/2 stars for food)

u.e.

That's ridiculous.. I really would like to watch her eat and talk about food.... by her giving out stars like candy only temporarily helps restaurants' ecomonic situation... it doesn't help it in the long run.

[moosnsqrl]

ulterior epicure, on Jul 18 2006, 12:13 PM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 17 2006, 01:16 PM, said:

We both worked for them at two seperate times, I'm going to couch my words out of the little respect I have for them. So how bout those dodgers?

... moving along...

Did anyone read Chapin's review of Cafe Maison? Anyone care to step up and say that the food was on par with, say bluestem or 40 Sardines? (She gave C.M. 3 1/2 stars for food)

u.e.

I read the review but, as I mentioned upthread, I really haven't been paying much attention to the stars and comparing one restaurant to another using them as a metric.

And to comment on JWest's remark about giving out stars to give a shot in the arm to a restaurant, for whatever reason, I think you're spot-on.

All that aside, I really do want to get by Cafe Maison and check it out for myself, though. We've all pretty much established that we don't really base decisions on the reviews but, conversely, I would hate to miss out on a good place because it received a good review. That falls under the category of cutting off your nose to spite your face, I think, like refusing to try a wine because Robert Parker liked it .

[chicagowench]

I thought I read about Maison in the Pitch, and have been wanting to get over there. But I think I'm going to give them a while to get used to a gas stove in there and finish with the dining room rennos.

[dinerminer]

Calvin Trillin and Arthur Bryants put KC on the map. The next most significant event in our culinary evolution was Bradley Ogden at the American. That was back in the early 80's. I'm not sure how many of you were "foodwise" back then, but the industry buzz at the opening of the American was very big. I would venture to say it was a groundbreaking event. IMHO, everyone who followed Ogden was merely coat-tailing off the American name. After that, Cafe Allegro was the first "new cuisine" restaurant to forge the road of innovation. I know that because I cheffed there (no bragging intended). Before that, everthing was old-school, corporate or Mom & Pop. There has been further evolution since then, but back to the subject..
Since everyone is beating around the bush, I'll say it - Lauren Chapin is lame. Considering her position, there is a lot more she could be doing

[monkfish_103]

ulterior epicure, on Jul 18 2006, 11:13 AM, said:

monkfish_103, on Jul 17 2006, 01:16 PM, said:

We both worked for them at two seperate times, I'm going to couch my words out of the little respect I have for them. So how bout those dodgers?

... moving along...

Did anyone read Chapin's review of Cafe Maison? Anyone care to step up and say that the food was on par with, say bluestem or 40 Sardines? (She gave C.M. 3 1/2 stars for food)

u.e.

Since you are using 40 and blue to set the scale, and I have eaten at all three places, but hey just like you, I can't say that I ate at all three places on the same day, same table that she did so I can't comement on her review. I do have my own opion, I can say the one I thought was a little bit better, I've dinned at three times this month. (here's a clue I ain't been to 40 in a year)
I bet she rewarded them with three and a half stars(not gave it out like candy)because of the guide lines she has posted on her fourm:
Are the ingredients fresh? Are the cooking techniques on the mark? Do the flavors work together or is there a promiscuous use of ingredients? How's the presentation? Is the meal worth the price?

[Big Country]

dinerminer, on Jul 18 2006, 07:16 PM, said:

Calvin Trillin and Arthur Bryants put KC on the map. The next most significant event in our culinary evolution was Bradley Ogden at the American. That was back in the early 80's. I'm not sure how many of you were "foodwise" back then, but the industry buzz at the opening of the American was very big. I would venture to say it was a groundbreaking event. IMHO, everyone who followed Ogden was merely coat-tailing off the American name. After that, Cafe Allegro was the first "new cuisine" restaurant to forge the road of innovation. I know that because I cheffed there (no bragging intended). Before that, everthing was old-school, corporate or Mom & Pop. There has been further evolution since then, but back to the subject..
Since everyone is beating around the bush, I'll say it - Lauren Chapin is lame. Considering her position, there is a lot more she could be doing

I don't believe for one moment that anyone was tailcoating Bradley. He is a great Chef but there was a long time inbetween Bradley and M&D. Sure it was a big event when the American Opened, and Cafe Allegro was a great restaurant. I just don't think that anyone should lighten the accomplishments that M&D have gained in their career. No one before or since has won a Beard award in KC.

[moosnsqrl]

Quote

No one before or since has won a Beard award in KC.

I'd like to add a hopeful "yet" to that, John.

[dinerminer]

Big, I wasn't intending to diminish anyones accomplishments, just simpy stating that the American reputation was firmly in place before M & D got there. They and others continued to carry the torch that was handed off from Ogden. Anyways, as I also stated "There has been further evolution since then", without naming all the names. I like M & D, in fact I'll be there tonight.

[moosnsqrl]

dinerminer, on Jul 20 2006, 10:04 AM, said:

Big, I wasn't intending to diminish anyones accomplishments, just simpy stating that the American reputation was firmly in place before M & D got there. They and others continued to carry the torch that was handed off from Ogden. Anyways, as I also stated "There has been further evolution since then", without naming all the names. I like M & D, in fact I'll be there tonight.

Hey, great idea . . . it is free corkage night.

Will you be wearing a red buttonniere? Do you look like your avatar? I'm kidding. Enjoy your dinner!