[Lesley C]

Yes, I'm afraid so. The Terr store is quite dark with neon lights and a black tile floor. The chocolates are pre-boxed by sort and the central tables sells chocolates in individual lime green and brown packages. Oh brother, no wonder you weren't impressed.

All these changes are quite recent. Hevin's website doesn't mention any of this, not even the new Terr store. You'll have to go back. I only came upon the glitzy upscale store because I walked there from the other direction, near Suffren, and passed the it by chance.

Bux, I know all about Espai Sucre and will be sampling Mr. Butron's desserts when he comes to Montreal for the Highlights Festival in March. When I worked at Thuriès in 1990 we often made dessert-only menus for visiting chefs. And one of the most popular menus included seven courses, four of them desserts.

[Louisa Chu]

Steve, yeah right. Just talk about chocolate and you start flopping out the Trimolene/inverted sugar. Good thing I just learned about that the other day so I know what you're talking about. I'll let you explain it to the rest of the class.

But viscerally, I really enjoyed what Hevin intended with Ter which was to have a childlike experience of buying a piece of chocolate, furiously tearing it open and taking a big mouthful of smooth and crunchy chocolate flavour and texture. That I got from the mendiant/chocolate bark. Our choice being with caramelised and then cocoa dusted hazelnuts.

Not so much so with the boxed chocolates. Too thick of a couverture and too similar of a slightly runny filling. And tastes did not differ enough. Subtle but too subtle. Very nice technically though with very clean feet.

And again it's important to note the difference of the French tastes. I was not consciously aware of their preference for pure chocolate as again I've not worked much with it yet and have not yet had chef feedback - their tastes are extremely traditional - so again it is important to have some knowlege in this area to even speak about one's subjective experience.

I have not tried Maison du Chocolat or Peltier's chocolates yet but that's on the agenda in the next few weeks - with the other great houses.

And Lesley I'll go by there again hopefully tomorrow though they're probably closed on Sunday. There was no shop across the street - I was told there's only the laboratoire. And no frozen macarons either. Though she said they should be getting more patisserie items in there soon.

And I was in fact impressed. I loved the interior design, packaging, concept, etc. Nice change from the Laduree-ness of Paris sometimes.

[Louisa Chu]

Lesley C, on Jan 7 2003, 08:21 PM, said:

When I worked at Thuriès in 1990 we often made dessert-only menus for visiting chefs. And one of the most popular menus included seven courses, four of them desserts.

Lesley, could you please share the menus when you get a chance?

[Lesley C]

Trust me, there's a store accross the street. I wasn't dreaming

[Louisa Chu]

Lesley, you're right, I'm wrong, there is another store. But in my own defense, it's not quite exactly right across the street. It is in fact on the other side of the street, but La Motte Picquet is one of those really wide busy Parisian streets with those little parking lanes on the side and the shop's up a bit towards Ecole Militaire - right across from the end of Rue Cler actually.

I stopped in both shops with classmates yesterday - to try the cheese chocolates but sadly they were sold out. Camembert, chevre, roquefort and another with cumin. They're sold as aperitifs - a box of 16 for about 13 euros, about a centimeter square - they had a display box.

I don't know that I was more impressed with this shop - except that it had a larger selection as well as some patisserie items - nor with the chocolates there as most of the ones I would have selected personally would have been the same ones that cabrales and I tried together from their pre-boxed set.

I did try their macarons - chocolate orange and chocolate caramel - which were all quite perfect, beautiful cocoa colour, had a very nice toothsomeness, not too sweet, rich bitter chocolate flavour and the orange one a bit of candied orange in the center which was a nice surprise and taste and textural contrast.

The one patisserie item we tried - a pyramide of chocolate genoise and layered with chocolate buttercream - I thought was a bit less successful. I think the genoise could have benefitted from some liberal imbibing - liquored or not - and the buttercream not quite as supple as I think it could have been, a bit stiff actually.

But the chocolate flavours and technique all impeccable.

I still prefer the tactile experience of the Ter store. We went immediately after and it was just so much fun to freely pick up a macaron - cello bagged - and look at it. Same with the truffles and other assorted chocolates. And the quality was identical. Though now that I think about it I think the macaron I bought at Ter may have been about 20 centimes more. Passing on that packaging cost I guess.

They said that they will soon carry the regional patisseries there as promised but can't say when.

23 avenue de la Motte-Picquet
75007 Paris
01 45 51 77 48

[Lesley C]

I think Hevin is pretty hard to beat in the world of chocolate. Loufood, have you been to Chaudun?

[Louisa Chu]

Not yet.

Michel Chaudun
149 RUE DE L'UNIVERSITE
75007 PARIS
01 47 53 74 40

[Lesley C]

I was disappointed in the store but the chocolates are quite nice.
And I hated Constant. The place was dirty and the sales people were rude.
Oh and the chocolates sucked.

[Louisa Chu]

Yes, have not heard good things about Constant. Sucked? Oh I like that. I haven't used that since high school.

And to answer the inevitable eternal question, no it's not Violon d'Ingres chef/owner Christian Constant - it's another Christian Constant. Different guys, no relation.

[David Lebovitz]

I went into Jean-Paul Hèvin in Paris yesterday with a group of guests, shopping for chocolate. One asked me if she could take a photo, so I politely asked the salesclerk, who replied, "You can only take a photo after you buy something."

I couldn't believe that was their policy and she told me that was the policy "...at stores everywhere in the world."

Really? I'd never heard that one and I've been to a lot of places. I was rather stunned, since normally it's either "oui" or "non"...either of which is fine with me. I understand if they do or don't want photos taken in the store, but to make it conditional upon buying something is just so tacky.

I had my guest put down all the chocolates they were going to buy (which was a rather large quantity, btw) and we left.
It was pretty amazing and I will never go back.

This post has been edited by David Lebovitz: 11 May 2006 - 08:53 AM

[Laidback]

David, perhaps you should consider sending a copy of this to their PR address: http://www.jphevin.c...ontact.php?id=2

[John Talbott]

David Lebovitz, on May 11 2006, 08:51 AM, said:

I had my guest put down all the chocolates they were going to buy (which was a rather large quantity, btw) and we left.

I have a hunch this is barely OT but four of us left most of our meal at Helene Darroze's downstairs place on the floor. We were cowardly, granted, but clear.

[Laidback]

John Talbott, on May 11 2006, 02:39 PM, said:

David Lebovitz, on May 11 2006, 08:51 AM, said:

I had my guest put down all the chocolates they were going to buy (which was a rather large quantity, btw) and we left.

I have a hunch this is barely OT but four of us left most of our meal at Helene Darroze's downstairs place on the floor. We were cowardly, granted, but clear.

John,

That is quite a tease...how about the whole story. Pat&I went to her downstairs place not too long after it opened and were underwhelmed to say the least, but discovered that subsequently most of the reviews were spectacular.

[docsconz]

David Lebovitz, on May 11 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

I went into Jean-Paul Hèvin in Paris yesterday with a group of guests, shopping for chocolate. One asked me if she could take a photo, so I politely asked the salesclerk, who replied, "You can only take a photo after you buy something."

I couldn't believe that was their policy and she told me that was the policy "...at stores everywhere in the world."

Really? I'd never heard that one and I've been to a lot of places. I was rather stunned, since normally it's either "oui" or "non"...either of which is fine with me. I understand if they do or don't want photos taken in the store, but to make it conditional upon buying something is just so tacky.

I had my guest put down all the chocolates they were going to buy (which was a rather large quantity, btw) and we left.
It was pretty amazing and I will never go back.

It is a shame because their chocolate is pretty darn good. I think you did the right thing though. I would have done the same.


John, please do tell more either in this thread or somewhere else if it is OT.

[Daddy-A]

docsconz, on May 11 2006, 02:57 PM, said:

David Lebovitz, on May 11 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

I went into Jean-Paul Hèvin in Paris yesterday with a group of guests, shopping for chocolate. One asked me if she could take a photo, so I politely asked the salesclerk, who replied, "You can only take a photo after you buy something."
<SNIP>
I had my guest put down all the chocolates they were going to buy (which was a rather large quantity, btw) and we left.
It was pretty amazing and I will never go back.

It is a shame because their chocolate is pretty darn good. I think you did the right thing though. I would have done the same.

That must have been a pretty important photo.

If your friend was going to buy the chocolates anyway, what was the big deal?

You could have left with the chocolates, your photo, and then shared the story here, and still had your sense of outrage noted. Instead, you left with your sense of outrage properly noted, but without really good chocolate or a photo.

I doubt the shop owner is losing any sleep.

A.

[docsconz]

Daddy-A, on May 11 2006, 07:17 PM, said:

docsconz, on May 11 2006, 02:57 PM, said:

David Lebovitz, on May 11 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

I went into Jean-Paul Hèvin in Paris yesterday with a group of guests, shopping for chocolate. One asked me if she could take a photo, so I politely asked the salesclerk, who replied, "You can only take a photo after you buy something."
<SNIP>
I had my guest put down all the chocolates they were going to buy (which was a rather large quantity, btw) and we left.
It was pretty amazing and I will never go back.

It is a shame because their chocolate is pretty darn good. I think you did the right thing though. I would have done the same.

That must have been a pretty important photo.

If your friend was going to buy the chocolates anyway, what was the big deal?

You could have left with the chocolates, your photo, and then shared the story here, and still had your sense of outrage noted. Instead, you left with your sense of outrage properly noted, but without really good chocolate or a photo.

I doubt the shop owner is losing any sleep.

A.

Arne,

David runs some very highly regarded chocolate tours in Paris. The people who wanted to take photos are not just friends but clients. While they may have passed up buying some very good chocolate at Hevin, they were not going to pass up buying very good chocolate elsewhere as Paris is chock full of great chocolate and if anyone knows it it is David. I disagree, this is a policy that Hevin may very well end up regretting.

[Carlsbad]

I have a feeling that the sales clerk messed up big time. Obviously, she hasn't been to too many stores around the world. Let them know and give management a chance to make it right. If they don't, then please let us all know so we can avoid the place.

[David Lebovitz]

The kicker was we all just came from Michel Chaudun, who spent about 45 minutes with us, tasting, chatting, and being as kind as anyone could possibly be. My guests bought lots of chocolate (one spent over 400 euros!)

Everyone at Hèvin was planning to buy chocolate as well, and had chocolates picked out ready to buy. But after the salesperson (who I was later told was the manager) told me no pics w/out purchase, then started arguing with me and saying "it's the same everywhere in the world"... I advised everyone against buying and we split.

If there's a no-photo policy, fine.
If there's a yes-photo policy, fine.

I don't care either way, it's their perogative.
Why not just say, "We're sorry, but we don't allow photos."

(Like Ladurée, Le Grand Epicerie, Whole Foods, etc...)

But to make it conditional on a purchase is really a new one on me.

[John Talbott]

Laidback, on May 11 2006, 02:04 PM, said:

John Talbott, on May 11 2006, 02:39 PM, said:

David Lebovitz, on May 11 2006, 08:51 AM, said:

I had my guest put down all the chocolates they were going to buy (which was a rather large quantity, btw) and we left.

I have a hunch this is barely OT but four of us left most of our meal at Helene Darroze's downstairs place on the floor. We were cowardly, granted, but clear.

John,
That is quite a tease...how about the whole story. Pat&I went to her downstairs place not too long after it opened and were underwhelmed to say the least, but discovered that subsequently most of the reviews were spectacular.

I didn't mean to tease. I've been underwhelmed at both her places and truly stunned at her public relations' success (BTW, there was a photo spread of her in (ex-Paris) Match #2953 in various colored negligees and I can understand why some male critics might fall all over themselves for her - she's a stunner). But as a chef, nah.
Full story: I went once to the upstairs place shortly after it opened with my wife Colette and best French eating buddy, whom I've been eating with since 1957 (we usually agree). I found the food banal, he liked it but not enuf to rush back; Colette was in between. (Herself spent the lunchtime talking with a reporter/critic).
Then when the downstairs place opened with much fanfare as a lighter, more tapas-y, relaxed place, my buddy talked us into going back, this time with his wife as well. We ordered; the firsts arrived, inedible for all 4 of us; we sent at least one back for adjustment when the shocked waitperson saw us staring at our almost full plates with all our knife/forks fixed at 2 o'clock. The mains were no improvement and not wanting to go thru the whole explanation thing again (you know, it's probably us, Madam, it's just not to our taste, blah blah blah), we collected up the food and put it in plastic bags we all carry for various emergencies and left it were it couldn't be missed under our chairs. We could have carried it out and dumped it but we were so disappointed/angry/shocked we decided jointly to leave it as a message. I have subsequently found out that the reason she got/gets such good reviews/articles/photo-spreads/etc has more to do with her private life than cooking skills. And that's a story I don't intend to tell.

[artisanbaker]

i bet she detected "Ricans"

what is it... 10% of satisfied customers will tell the world about their positive experience while 90% of dissatisfied customers will tell the world...

[pierre45]

My comment about the Herve and helene d'arroze incident is as follows.
- I beleive in both situations the clients were way too kind and polite.In both situations the merchants were wrong. In the case of Herve the action taken was appropriate, except i would have explained the pettiness and the loss of good will
with their behavior and tell them that i'll tell the story on the internet.
In the case of H D'arroze i will explain why the food is not acceptable and wait for them to ask me to choose something else.
I have had similar experiences before and an assertive behavior worked well .
I realize that speaking french makes a big difference .However i beleive that to indicate that the food is not to one's taste gives the impression that the restaurant is not at fault .ITs a star restaurant after all and they will try to please .

[John Talbott]

pierre45, on May 12 2006, 08:21 AM, said:

In the case of H  D'arroze i will explain why the food is not acceptable and wait for them to ask me to choose something else.

Well Pierre, not to minimize our cowardly behavior, but two of us speak letter-perfect French and the other two are quite adequate at remonstrating in French. We did try at least 6 firsts, and when the replacements and the mains were just as bad, this was no longer a workable strategy. There's a time for fight and a time for flight, my father's pal Walter Cannon maintained.

[Daddy-A]

docsconz, on May 11 2006, 05:32 PM, said:

David runs some very highly regarded chocolate tours in Paris. The people who wanted to take photos are not just friends but clients. While they may have passed up buying some very good chocolate at Hevin, they were not going to pass up buying very good chocolate elsewhere as Paris is chock full of great chocolate and if anyone knows it  it is David. I disagree, this is a policy that Hevin may very well end up regretting.

Ahhhh ... this is a tidbit on information I didn't have. I agree, this is a silly policy. David is of course correct; either allow photos, or don't. Making it contingent on a purchase is quite petty.

John Talbott, on May 12 2006, 08:42 AM, said:

There's a time for fight and a time for flight, my father's pal Walter Cannon maintained.

Wise words. Does this tome allow me to still keep the chocolates?

A.

ps - David - I may be in touch. My wife and I will be in Paris in September.

[docsconz]

artisanbaker, on May 12 2006, 04:19 AM, said:

i bet she detected "Ricans"

I'm not quite sure what this means or why it should make a difference.

Quote

what is it... 10% of satisfied customers will tell the world about their positive experience while 90% of dissatisfied customers will tell the world...

I think that it is probably a matter of the level of disatisfaction. For myself, I prefer to speak positively unless I perceive something to be particularly aggregious. That doesn't mean I am not honest in my assessment or that I shun giving a poor review. I simply try not to gratuitously criticize. However, if there is something that really rubs me the wrong way or I am in marked disagreement with other opinions than I will offer my negative responses. I believe that people should be responsible and honest with their critiques.

The power of the internet works both ways. It can bring attention to and rewards to some businesses and destroy others. Like it or not that is the way of the world now and businesses should pay attention. Customer service is more important than ever.

[David Lebovitz]

Yes, my French friends always tell me to get what you want, you need to raise your voice and cause a scene, but I (perhaps foolishly) figure that a reasonable, civil conversation should be all that's necessary.

Unfortunately, writing a letter here or complaining (as John noted) is basically a waste of time, since I am 100% certain that no one cares. It's why so many people hear dream of a career in civil service; they can't be fired.

Fortunately, I was able to delete the large amount of space that I devoted to Hèvin in an upcoming article I'm writing for a major airline magazine on gastronomic addresses in Paris, with a circulation of 2 million readers.

...touché!

[sanrensho]

David Lebovitz, on May 11 2006, 07:51 AM, said:

so I politely asked the salesclerk, who replied, "You can only take a photo after you buy something."

Such a petty attitude. Given the number of other options you have in Paris, it makes complete sense to take your business elsewhere.

If I were the proprietor, I would fire that salesclerk in a second.

[John Talbott]

David Lebovitz, on May 12 2006, 09:36 AM, said:

It's why so many people hear dream of a career in civil service; they can't be fired.

It's ironic and quite off-topic, but today for the third time in 50 years in France, I was treated rudely, by a civil servant at the Poste, who was thankfully not French French so I maintain my theory and experience that 100% of the rudeness in France is from others who are pretending they know how the French behave.

[BigboyDan]

If a sane person read this thread, he'd laugh his ass off.

Walk out in a huff because one couldn't take a picture without buying something? Hello, Oprah? Buy a candy bar and take the picture... sheesh!

[John Talbott]

BigboyDan, on May 12 2006, 12:55 PM, said:

If a sane person read this thread, he'd laugh his ass off.
Walk out in a huff because one couldn't take a picture without buying something? Hello, Oprah? Buy a candy bar and take the picture... sheesh!

Well,
1) There's no sane folks on eGullet.org, so don't worry - doesn't obsession with food define membership?
2) One does have to assert oneself in France or one gets trampled. An elbow to the ribs to the mec creeping the line does it quite well (with ample apologies afterwards of course).
3) And food, especially chocolate, is serious business.
4) Who's Oprah?

[BigboyDan]

Ha!

Touche, John. Summed it up in four sentences!