[McDuff]

I got a sample of mycryo to play around with and made the Vanilla Bavarian which recipe came with it, folding Valronha's perles au chocolat into it and making a mousse torte kind of thing. I should have infused the milk with Valronha's cocoa nibs, now that would have been tasty.

I tried to figure out how much to use per unit of mousse or whatever and landed on 1 oz per lb. So I made some lemon curd, dropped the mycryo in while it was still hot, then cooled it, folded in some whipped cream, spread it on a round of frangipane, pressed fresh raspberries into it, then piped whipped cream over it. Not too shabby tasting.

If anybody else has used it, is an oz per lb enough? Does it need heat and/or acid to work? Most of the recipes that came with it need to go to 158 degrees, then the cream is folded in at 64 degrees. I just love that kind of precision. What happens if you bump the amount used up a little? Does it set any firmer? I don't have a lot of it left and I don't think my boss will buy it if I can't answer some questions about it. It apparently costs about 110 bucks for 9 kilos. But the big brass are a little excited by it as it is natural and vegetarian. We can only use beef gelatin from Giusto's and people don't like the smell when it's hot.

[tan319]

can you buy a single unit?
Like a box, assuming it comes in a box like pistole chocolate?
Just play around with it, seems to me?

[nicolekaplan]

i haven't used ny sample yet but my understanding is the following
1. it is cocoa butter that is basically airbrushed and crumbled
2. i think harry wils is carrying it
3. you can use it to temper chocolate, i think it was at a ration of 1g to 100g chocolate
but if you call the number listed in the ad they are helpful

[Moopheus]

According the adverts, it's powdered cocoa butter.

[Michael Laiskonis]

I bought a case a while back and finally just started using it this week. What I've found most helpful is a book/CD that Cacao Barry released through Kirra Edition, L'Eveil des Sens, written by Philippe Bertrand and Philippe Marand, which I received as a promo item. In the book they utilize Mycryo in virtually every capacity, from entremets and plated desserts to petits fours and chocolate work. Their examples will definitely offer a better sense of formula and substitution ratios, more so than the package or the two page promo thing I've seen. They even use it as a fat to saute items! Like I said, I got the book as a promo, and I don't know how else it might be distributed, but it is worth seeking out.

When I initially asked for it, my distributor haven't even heard of it, but the product is getting out there, and I would hope most purveyors are sampling it out. A case is six 1.5K/3.3# cans, and I paid something like $128 for the case. Whether it will be successful or well received, I think remains to be seen. My initial mousses were nice, much more delicate but also more fragile than if they had been gelatin based- an acceptable trade off, I guess. At the very least, I'll likely end up using it to replace the cocoa butter tablets I normally keep in inventory- the Mycryo is actually cheaper!

[McDuff]

Michael Laiskonis, on Apr 18 2004, 10:53 AM, said:

My initial mousses were nice, much more delicate but also more fragile than if they had been gelatin based- an acceptable trade off, I guess.

That's pretty much what I've found so far. They set up, can be sliced carefully, and remain very tender. They also seem to weep a bit the following day, and the bowl of vanilla bavarian which I ignored for several days to see what would happen to it completely collapsed when I poked it with a spatula. I don't read French so the book/cd might be of limited value. The woman at Cocoa Barry in Montreal was very helpful when I ordered the sample and I suppose Whole Foods has enough clout to make her sit up and take notice if I tell her we need to know how to use it.

[artisanbaker]

http://www.chipsbooks.com/allpleas.htm

[Michael Laiskonis]

McDuff, on Apr 18 2004, 01:29 PM, said:

...They also seem to weep a bit the following day, and the bowl of vanilla bavarian which I ignored for several days to see what would happen to it completely collapsed when I poked it with a spatula. I don't read French so the book/cd might be of limited value...

I also forgot to mention that some care needs to be taken when incorporating it into a hot substance. Even though the quantities are small, it seems you have to approach it like an emulsion, as it is fat- one of my guys was putting some into a warmed fruit puree and it immediately appeared like an oil slick on the surface...

And as you would see from the above link, the book is tri-lingual. A word of caution, however, I've already found one glaring typo- a sort of olive oil sablee recipe calling for 475 grams of butter, when in fact it should be only 75 grams!

[McDuff]

You can sometimes see that fat floating on the top of a bowl of chocolate you're trying to temper. I had an instructor, one of the guys on winning US baking team last year, Ciril Hitz, who called it "purple haze." I used to have a different definition for that substance, but I stirred the lemon curd for several minutes and didn't have any separation. That book is verrrryyyy pricey, and probably has more info in it than I need. We don't do anywhere near the variety of in-house production one could pull from that source.

[nightscotsman]

Michael Laiskonis, on Apr 18 2004, 05:44 PM, said:

A word of caution, however, I've already found one glaring typo- a sort of olive oil sablee recipe calling for 475 grams of butter, when in fact it should be only 75 grams!

Yikes- that's a hell of a typo!

[gibfalc]

Just wanted to post a few things that I know about mycryo. Mycryo is cocoa butter that is frozen while it is being sprayed.The freezing process sets certain crystals first and leaves you with the desirable Beta crystals. By adding the beta crystals at the correct temperature they form the proper chains and leave the chocolate in temper. To use mycryo you should
1. melt the chocolate to 104 - 113
2. Let the chocolate cool to 94.
3. Add mycryo at 1% of the weight of the chocolate.
4. Stir in well
5. Hold at the proper temperature 89-90 for dark 85-86 for milk etc...

A few more uses for mycryo . It can be brushed on warm tart shells to create a protective barrier. Unlike gelatin it is not affected by enzymes therefore making it another choice when working with certain fruits. As mentioned in another post it can be used as a vegetarian substitute for gelatin. I have also seen it added to chocolate and cocoa butter to make the mixture more stable when spraying showpieces.

[tan319]

I just got a can of this today and am looking forward to using it.
I'm going to begin my search for gel/Mycryos substitutions but wanted to run it by you guys too.
I do a dulce de leche mascarpone thing, a kind of tiramisu that i do in small ring molds and normally use 8 sheets of gel in my recipe( makes about 24 desserts).
So, that would be 16 grams of gel sheets.
Anybody have any ideas on a weight to go with?
I was wondering if I should use their outline for a bavarian cream but my dish really isn't that kind of thing
Thanks in advance for any input.

This post has been edited by tan319: 22 June 2004 - 07:56 PM

[tan319]

Not having much luck on googling it.
Nothing.
And can't find that damn ad that was everywhere in the mags, the one with the cross section cut of a raspberry mousse like cake.
Does anyone remember where that was?
Food Arts?
PA&D?( )
Food& Wine?

[McDuff]

I had a lengthy conversation Monday with a guy named Derek Pho from Barry Callebaut, or Cacao Barry, whoever makes this stuff. He changed some of the numbers I was working with. They're quite willing to spend time on the phone with you. The number is 1-800-774-9131. Derek is a technical guy. There's another guy named Jeff Kulhawy who can talk intelligently about it. My boss found the ad in Pastry Arts.

Add it at the rate of 3 to 6 times what you would use for gelatin. He said, for example, if you were using cassis puree, which is fairly thick, go with the three factor. Passion puree needs more because it is thin.

Heat the puree to 60 degrees Celsius, add the mycryo and dissolve, then add the sugar and cool to 18 degrees C. Then finish assembling the preparation.

When folding in whipped cream he suggests it should be whipped to very soft peaks.

He also said you need to experiment with the stuff. Nice. We bought the book at work, but what I was looking for was not specific recipes or formulas, but general techniques.

As far as substituting it in the dulce de leche mascarpone thing, you'd be looking at 48 grams, a little less than two oz.

I was taught in school to make a gelatin solution of 1 oz of gelatin bloomed in 5 oz of water. One oz of this is used to stablize a pound of cream, or mousse. If my admittedly shaky math is correct then one oz of this solution contains .17 oz of gelatin, so I need to substitute .51 to 1.02 oz of mycryo for each oz of gelatin solution. I wish I could remember that for more than five minutes, but no...everytime I need to get the calculator and redo it. It's the drugs.

[tan319]

Thanks, Mcduff.
I called them today too
Dig this, I came home from my morning stint today and find the copy of PA&D I was looking at last night for the damned ad, and it's turned over on it's back, with the ad staring me in the face!!!
As for the call, the person I spoke to said to try 4 to 8 times the amount of gelatin I use, which is pretty close to your estimate, and yes, "you have to play around with it"!
Which I think is kind of weird.
But, whatever.
Tomorrow I will play around with it.
Question for you though.
Does it hold pretty well?
Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it

[McDuff]

tan319, on Jun 23 2004, 12:20 PM, said:

As for the call, the person I spoke to said to try 4 to 8 times the amount of gelatin I use, which is pretty close to your estimate, and yes, "you have to play around with it"!

Can you believe that? That's going to get out of control at 38 cents an ounce.

I made a raspberry mousse cake by dissolving the mycryo in the hot puree, then adding cold pastry cream and folding in whipped cream. I left it in the walkin for 4 days and it was perfect. No runs, no drips, no errors. I'm on vacation but can't wait to get to work and play some more. I have to submit all these forms with formulas and costs and margins and stuff in order to get a new product into the pastry case. There's a quick turnaround on the paperwork, but I know I'm going to be buried when I get back.

[bripastryguy]

McDuff,

Let me know how that mousse holds up. I may need the recipe.

[tan319]

A few thoughts on this stuff...
I'm not impressed with it as a gelatine substitute, that's for sure.
I've done two seperate trials, the second using more than 5 times the weight of my usual gelatin, which is at the high end of what they suggest ratio's should be.
The result is just a bit too iffy for me.
I used 50 grams the 1st time, dissolving it in 60 c cream and cooling it to 18c( I stickblended to emulsify, I think some one else noted, maybe M. Laiskonis, that you get a bit of an oil slick otherwise.)
This didn't gel well at all.
So I went back and used 100 grams and it was better but...
I'm a bit curious why CB would roll out a product that is so hit and miss.
Even the 150/175 dollar book that is built around this leaves one a question mark it seems.
Maybe not using gel is a bit more incentive driven in Europe with Mad Cow Disease?
I'm having a big problem with the uncertainness of the methods, the price of it, given the amount you have to use, and the idea of dicking around with any recipe I have that uses gelatin two or three times.
Of course, the kitchen staff and servers are thrilled to eat the "mistakes".
I'll have to see what it's like with chocolate and tempering.

Edited to update...
My chef just called to say they've set up rather nicely
I'll try and taste tomorrow.( i was off today)

This post has been edited by tan319: 01 July 2004 - 08:10 PM

[tan319]

Ok, it did set up.
Kind of fragile though.
It's pretty strange to have it gel w/o gel!
Unique.
Will be posting more as it happens.

[tan319]

I bagged using it for my baked/molded stuff.
One hundred grams worked alright for a minute but the structure I found wanting.
Got a bit saggy in the middle.

[Chefjk]

Thank you very much Mcduff for the nice mention. I am Jeff Kulhawy. I work for Barry callebaut , and do know alot about this product. It is a very good product, works great for a gelatine replacement . The most import thing to know is that the ratio is different from that of gelatine. Gelatine is a protein to protein bond in a mousse with the cream. This product is a fat to fat bond in the mousse. This said the average exchange is gelatine 1 to mycreo 1.6 . Knowing that this is a good way to start to work with the product. Still keep in mind depending on the fruit puree , every fruit is different with acids, and the viscosity . If the puree is is thicker it will take less than if the puree is a very watery product. I will leave my office phone number for any one with question. 1-800-836-2626 ext. 9938

[McDuff]

Chefjk, on Jul 23 2004, 07:00 AM, said:

Thank you very much Mcduff for the nice mention.  I am Jeff Kulhawy.  I work for Barry callebaut , and do know alot about this product.  It is a very good product, works great for a gelatine replacement .  The most import thing to know is that the ratio is different from that of gelatine. Gelatine is a protein to protein bond in a mousse with the cream.  This product is a fat to fat bond in the mousse.  This said the average exchange is  gelatine 1 to mycreo 1.6 . Knowing that this is a good way to start to work with the product.  Still keep in mind depending on the fruit puree , every fruit is different with acids, and the viscosity .  If the puree is is thicker it will take less than if the puree is a very watery product.  I will leave my office phone number for any one with question.  1-800-836-2626 ext. 9938

We talked on the phone, Jeff. I'm with Whole Foods. We got approval to use the product, but again, 1 to 1.6 doesn't seem to me to be the numbers Derek gave me.

for instance, I've worked up a raspberry mousse involving the following: 16 oz prepared cold pastry cream, 8 oz raspberry puree, 3 oz Clearbrook Farms raspberry preserves, 24 oz very soft whipped cream, lemon juice and 2 oz Mycryo dissolved in some of the warmed puree. I melt the mycryo, stir till it emulsifies well with the puree, add the rest of the puree, then temper in some of the pastry cream, then fold it all together and last, add the whipped cream. You can almost feel this tighten as you fold it, and if the cream is the slightest bit too stiff, the whole thing will get grainy, which I guess is the result of the fat-to-fat thing.

This makes about 3 lb, which is enough make a half sheet cake in a frame with a nice layer inside. I have to do a demo on this product at an upcoming pastry team summit meeting for the North Atlantic region. I don't suppose you can get to Cambridge MA on August 3? You're looking at a fairly significant market here.

Actually it's a teleconference with the TriState pastry people in Edgewater NJ, if that's closer. Shimme would be the guy to talk to.

Most of the pastry people inside Whole Foods really disdain gelatin, and agar is just too expensive and quirky. Mycryo seems to be the perfect solution for us, but it's a little tricky.

The book is nice, pretty pictures yada yada, but the skill level isn't there in some of our locations, and my approach to jazzing up the pastry case involves what I call the building block approach. If we can make a nice cake filling using a Diplomat cream, which is what the above recipe is, then almost everyone can handle that, as opposed to a Bavarian, which has the added and treacherous step of making a creme anglaise.

I've forwarded a can of this to the North Atlantic region Bakehouse, as they are very interested in it. If you pm me, I can give you the name of the contact person.

This post has been edited by McDuff: 23 July 2004 - 06:04 PM

[tan319]

So, what do you do if someone blows a recipe?
It would seem the volume for a Whole Foods outlet would be substantial.
Just curious....
Also, it seems the recipes a bit puree centric.
What if you're using a pate bombe?
Maybe that's addressed in the book but at 150+$, know what I mean?

[McDuff]

I'm not sure I know what you're getting at by saying the recipe is puree centric. We can get puree for 3.50 a lb, or make our own using frozen raspberries, or the really hard way, mooch culls off the produce department and make it fresh.
We don't use flavoring compounds, if that's what you mean. That's a pretty standard diplomat cream. As far as people making pate a bombes, I don't know. There is some exceptional talent in the stores, but some of the stores have pretty limited kitchens and I like to figure out how everybody can make a product, not just those of us with several mixers, a wall of ovens, 30 years of experience, and a degree. I have to make another 1/2 sheet raspberry mousse thing tomorrow, with the top covered with fruit. I'll take a picture.
The book is cheaper than $150. I think the book/cd combo might be that much. The book is not much help when it comes to figuring out how to use the stuff. Fine if you want to copy the book.
If people blow a recipe, they just have to write it off. We have coordinators who travel around helping with merchandising. We really need one who travels around training production people. My boss and I have put the bug into people's ears that that would be a perfect job for me, but it's still in development. They're opening a ridiculous number of stores in this area in the next year.

[nventura]

I attended the Pastry Forum in Vegas this year and saw many applications for Mycryo, but the most eye-opening use by far, was how it tempered chocolate in like a minute!! I loaded myself up with samples and played with it wheen i got back to work. It' amazing. Just bring your chocolate to melting temp, bring it down to 30c and add the mycryo powder (1:100)...instant temper. even if your chocolate doesnt show all the signs of temper, you can use it right away, and it stays fluid and workable for quite a while. I highly recommend trying this product.

[tan319]

McDuff,
My post should have said ARE puree centric, meaning the Barry recipes.
Sorry about the confusion.
As I've said before, it seems weird to put out a product that you have to play with so much.
But, if it works for you guys...
The tempering thing seems very interesting.
I've been getting into tempering (finally) and have pretty good sucess.
Tempering Milk Chocolate, specifically, and it's turning out great,
I just hate working in the heat and humidity in my shop, which should be wreaking havoc on my product.
Anything that can make it work more to my advantage.

[Lloydchoc]

As soon as I read the info on Mycryo, I knew I had to get some to use for seed in tempering chocolate. I have used it twice, and I have not gotten the quality of temper that I can get using chocolate seed. It seems like it should work though. There were some mitigating circumstances--it has been very hot and humid lately and it is difficult to get a good temper using traditional methods. I have tried calling Jeff at Callebaut but he hasn't returned my call--perhaps he is on vacation.

I can do a very good job tempering using chocolate seed, but I thought that using mycryo which I assume is pure type V crystals would give me more control over the process under difficult conditions.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

[dejaq]

Mycryo, interesting stuff tried a container a while back the week it came out,
my thoughts are the following:
it's expensive, you need to use more than the specs say to create a "firm" set on mousse or bavarian, it has applcations for those not sold on traditional methods, otherwise stay with sheets, they are standardized and a lot less$$$$.
I have also heard of the tempering trick, I am going to give it a shot soon.

[tan319]

Lloydchoc, on Aug 31 2004, 10:27 AM, said:

As soon as I read the info on Mycryo, I knew I had to get some to use for seed in tempering chocolate. I have used it twice, and I have not gotten the quality of temper that I can get using chocolate seed. It seems like it should work though. There were some mitigating circumstances--it has been very hot and humid lately and it is difficult to get a good temper using traditional methods. I have tried calling Jeff at Callebaut but he hasn't returned my call--perhaps he is on vacation.

I can do a very good job tempering using chocolate seed, but I thought that using mycryo which I assume is pure type V crystals would give me more control over the process under difficult conditions.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I used it once for tempering, under humid conditions.
It worked ok but I didn't like the look of it.
I found that same look in the mousse I made with it. if you know what I mean.
I may try it again for tempering once humidity goes away.

[bripastryguy]

Anyone perfected anything with this product?

I have resorted to use it some of my desserts to acheive a firmer product when frozen (with the heat in NY right now, my roof top compressor is working vertime and my freezer isnt going below 0)

I am looking for proven conversions from gelatin for pastry shop applications not plated desserts.