[John Talbott]

Zurban, October 6th, published a little note, indicating that (1) the Mayor has designed stickers for places that says “établissement sans tabac” and (2) also indicated that Liberation said there is an internet site that lists no smoking places all over, including a list of 80 such restaurants in Paris.

[Louisa Chu]

Beware of that list - it's not completely current - like Nobu closed ages ago. Or quite representative of a good time - Laduree at Madeleine does have a non-smoking room - but it's in their horrible, hot and stuffy, upstairs room - the one that the waitstaff seems to forget exists. And there are too many bad chain restaurants - Hippo, Bistro Romain, Pommes des Pains, and Chez Clement - twice.

[bleudauvergne]

LKL Chu, on Oct 20 2004, 12:51 PM, said:

Beware of that list - it's not completely current - like Nobu closed ages ago. Or quite representative of a good time - Laduree at Madeleine does have a non-smoking room - but it's in their horrible, hot and stuffy, upstairs room - the one that the waitstaff seems to forget exists. And there are too many bad chain restaurants - Hippo, Bistro Romain, Pommes des Pains, and Chez Clement - twice.

Nice to note the lists exist. I agree with Louisa, There is much progress to be made. Often the non-smoking areas of restaurants tend to be closed up, stuffy, and dark, whereas the smokers are placed in the prime seats, on the terrace, near the windows, etc. It is nice to see that some restaurants are making an effort, in any case. To note too this list coincides with a current multi-media campaign of shock advertisement on the effects of secondhand smoke put out by public health authorities. When I first got to France, it was completely the opposite, in the midst of the media buzz on those pesky non-smoking militants who were trying to put constraints on the rights of smokers.

Recently Markk was trying to compile a list of recommended places in Lyon with seperate non-smoking rooms. It would be nice to hear about his experiences.

[John Talbott]

LKL Chu, on Oct 20 2004, 03:51 AM, said:

Beware of that list - it's not completely current

And here I thought I was too cynical.
Oh well, at least some provide more than a "no smoking table."
As of today La Cerisaie remains no smoking throughout.

[tighe]

I don't know if its any more or less reliable, but Cityvox provides a list of completely non-smoking restaurants in Paris.

Quote

Bel Canto - Hôtel de ville
72, Quai de l'Hôtel de ville - 75004 Paris > Bars/pubs, Restaurants
   
La Table d'Hélène
14, Rue Duc - 75018 Paris > Restaurants (30 - 40 €)     

Délicabar - Snack Chic
26 - 38, Rue de Sèvres - 75007 Paris > Bars/pubs, Restaurants (10 - 40 €)     

Sushiya
12, Rue Pradier - 75019 Paris > Restaurants (17 - 20 €)     

La Table de Joël Robuchon
16, Avenue Bugeaud - 75016 Paris > Restaurants (80 - 100 €)     

La Luciole
51, Rue Censier - 75005 Paris > Bars/pubs, Restaurants (20 €)     

Chez Germaine
30, Rue Pierre Leroux - 75007 Paris > Restaurants (22 €)     

Le Florimond
19, Avenue de la Motte Piquet - 75007 Paris > Restaurants (30 - 45 €)     

Frascati
14, Rue Turenne - 75004 Paris > Food & drink, Restaurants   

Daily Monop - Vaugirard
327, Rue de Vaugirard - 75015 Paris > Food & drink, Restaurants

Lémoni Café
5, Rue Hérold - 75001 Paris > Bars/pubs, Restaurants (8 - 12 €)     

Je n'Aime Que Toi
62, Rue de Clichy - 75009 Paris > Restaurants   

Le Cosy Café
16, Rue Torricelli - 75017 Paris > Bars/pubs, Restaurants   

Daily Monop - Sébastopol
6, Boulevard Sébastopol - 75004 Paris > Food & drink, Restaurants (4 - 6 €)     

Minamoto Kitchoan
17, Place de la Madeleine - 75008 Paris > Bars/pubs, Food & drink, Restaurants   

Pose T
126, Rue Nationale - 75013 Paris > Bars/pubs, Photo, video & audio, Restaurants (15 €)     

Pousse-Pousse
7, Rue Notre Dame de Lorette - 75009 Paris > Food & drink, Restaurants (13 €)     

Joy in food
2, Rue Truffaut - 75017 Paris > Restaurants (11 - 14 €)     

Fromage Rouge
216, Rue de la Convention - 75015 Paris > Bars/pubs, Food & drink, Restaurants (7 - 11 €)     

Po Mana
39, Rue des Vinaigriers - 75010 Paris > Restaurants (19 €)

[Jonathan Day]

La Bastide St Antoine, Chibois' place in Grasse, has two dining rooms, one for smokers and one for non-smokers. Both are large and well appointed with plenty of natural light. Le Mas Candille, in Mougins, runs an entirely non-smoking restaurant. It's happening, but slowly.

[Carlsbad]

Bofinger has designated its main room under the dome as non-smoking for sometime.

I for one am happy the "non-smoking militants" are having an effect. One good thing about restaurants in California is that we don't have to tolerate smoke ruining a meal any longer.

This post has been edited by Carlsbad: 20 October 2004 - 10:32 PM

[42390]

I had a very good dinner at Florimond, a Bibb Gourmand in the Red Guide, last month. It is non smoking completely.

I also ate at a place I picked at random called Aux Deux Canards on Rue Faubourg Poissonniere in the 10th. The person who runs this restaurant is an ex smoker who has signs up encouraging guests not to smoke, and if they do he tries to shame them out of it. It seems to work, almost no one was smoking the night I was there.

This is an interesting little place. You get a very friendly welcome. The owner goes to great lengths to explain how they make "miel a l'orange" orange honey, which is not bee honey at all, which is then used in several dishes such as canard a l'orange.

[Bux]

Responding to Jonathan's addition of restaurants in the provinces, our first encounter with restaurateurs discouraging smoking was at Andre Daguin's dining room at the Hotel de France in Auch. There were table tents advising guests that they had a smoking room and a dining room and appealing to them to use them one after the other and not eat and smoke at the same time. It had no effect on the table of Italians near us. Daugin has retired. I assume his policy went when he did, but no one goes to Auch to eat any more.

Michel Bras' table tent requested diners to enjoy the pleasures of tobacco in the lounge for the well being of the guests in the dining room. Régis Macon suggested guests retire to the lounge for the pleasures of the cigar and cigarette the first time we were there. I didn't notice similar table tents last month when we returned. I don't recall smokers either, but tables are well spaced. I don't find it surprising that chefs whose food is delicate and the result of intensive efforts by the kitchen staff should be concerned that diners might actually want to taste their food.

[MiguelCardoso]

Here is a story that happened with me at the Brasserie Lipp in the Spring of 1999.

I smoke cigarillos (Azorean, handmade) during the day but, after lunch or dinner or at chosen moments when I'm working hard I reward myself with a good Cuban. Of course, if I were wealthier I'd forget about the cigarillos but I can't really afford more than three robustos a day.

Sitting in the front room at Lipp with my best friend, we naturally tried to light up before and during our meal (since the waiters and notices encourage all smoking except by pipe) but were charmingly put off by a couple of delightful women sitting right next to us - both well over 70 - who made faces in the most seductive ways. So we went out into the Boulevard to puff away, thinking ourselves real gentlemen.

After we'd finished our choucroute, coffee and old Calvados - or whatever it was - we duly brought out the box of very fresh, almost "green" Cohibas robustos we'd just bought a block away, drooled over it and, with no sacrifice, made to get up as we were anxious to check out the new arrivals in the bookshop over the road.

However, the lovely ladies, beautifully arranged - with which we'd been talking with in the most animated and interesting fashion - instantly placed their delicate wrists on our hands.

"No no", they both said with a heartstopping smile, "these we insist you smoke next to us, as we enjoy the aroma very much".

So their protest wasn't against tobacco smoke as such - only against lesser cigarillos and cigars.

We puffed away and they made a point of saying it had made a positive contribution to their meal and coffee. I must say we felt quite proud!

This post has been edited by MiguelCardoso: 20 October 2004 - 10:54 PM

[bleudauvergne]

What happened after that?

[MiguelCardoso]

*giggle*

Alas nothing, Lucy... And after all that trouble, too. Aren't these French grannies the most consummate and infuriating "allumeuses"? :)

[markk]

bleudauvergne, on Oct 20 2004, 06:09 AM, said:

Recently Markk was trying to compile a list of recommended places in Lyon with seperate non-smoking rooms.  It would be nice to hear about his experiences. 

It hasn't gone nearly as well as I had hoped!

To start, I compiled a list of the 27 restaurants in Lyon and the surrounding area which have Michelin stars or its "Bib Gourmand". (As a rule, I find that the Bib Gourmand restaurants, which pretty closely correlate to restaurants which receive around a 13 in the Gault Millau, are the places that I like to eat most - I do like to venture into starred dining as well, but on a two week trip that's sometimes hard to keep up; the Bib Gourmand places are pretty substantial dining experiences, though, and perfect for me on a regular basis.) In any event, culling the names, e-mail addresses, and fax numbers from the Michelin site was a start.

I contacted the 27 restaurants - first I wrote to all those that had e-mail addresses, then I faxed those that didn't, plus those that didn't reply to my initial e-mails. In all, 19 places replied one way or the other. Of those, Auberge de l'Ile and Alain Chapel (both 2-stars) replied that they are "all no smoking". Nicolas Le Bec (1-star) replied that I could dine in a non-smoking room if I requested it when I made my reservation; Christian Tetedoie (1-star) said that it has a separate non-smoking room on Friday and Saturday only, and of the 4 Bib Gourmand restaurants that replied to me (out of 12), Chez Jean-Francois said that it offers "a non-smoking room with 6 places" [in my experience, something which could easily be a smoke-collecting alcove], and the other three replied that they are all smoking establishments.

All in all, not the response I was hoping for. I've spent the last several years eating my way through Alsace in the winter, and while it similary took a tremendous amount of research, I found a good number of places there - many of them Bib Gourmand, that are all non smoking or which have separate rooms.

Using the web, I found one or two low-end restaurants in Lyon that are non-smoking, and while I know that these can come in very handy in an emergency, they're not what I'd want to plan a trip to France around.

Then, I e-mailed a number of restaurants that score around a 12 in the Gault Millau, via their websites, but virtually none of them answered me. One place actually sent me a "photo reply", a photo of their dining room, showing an alcove with a table for 4, and told me that this was their no-smoking section.

(It reminded me of being in Germany in the early 90's, when "smoking obligatory" seemed to describe most of Europe. I went to one of the big American style hotels in town to ask if they perhaps had a no-smoking section - in those days, that would have been the very best I could have hoped for. The Maitre d' threw open the double doors that led to the restaurant, a vast, high-ceilinged, totally smoke-filled room, and proudly said to me "Sir, you are welcome not to smoke at any of our tables.")

And so, for now, the trip to Lyon is off.

[Le Zouave]

tighe - all these addresses sound reliable to me, except for Po Mana, recently closed.

[Niall]

Like Bux, we have noticed cards requesting that people do not smoke in the dining areas in the the Chapeau rouge and Lameloise when we were in Burgundy earlier this year. As an ex-smoker with a non-smoking girlfriend it was fantastic to be able to eat without the smoke.

[Bux]

Niall, on Oct 25 2004, 05:26 AM, said:

As an ex-smoker with a non-smoking girlfriend it was fantastic to be able to eat without the smoke.

Both my wife and I smoked, but each of us stopped so long ago that we seem like non-smokers rather than ex-smokers. I agree that it's fantastic, but it also must be considered a plus or an unexpected extra. If one travels in France expecting smoke-free dining rooms, it's just setting the diner up for disappointment. Nevertheless, I see less and less smoking in very find restaurants and the tables are further apart as well.

[John Talbott]

Yesterday's Figaro had a full page on the Mayor's new initiative. Good news: 30 restos have "voluntarily" put up the sign saying "here it's 100% smoke free." Bad news: there are 12,000 places in Paris. Also, there was an interview of Didier Chener of "Oh ! Poivrier" which is among them, where he states he's unafraid of a drop in customers.

[John Talbott]

Sébastien Demorand of Zurban wrote an article in #222 on “Smoking – No Smoking” in which he says that while the Law Evin of 1991-1992, prohibiting smoking in public places is thought by 70% citizens to apply to restaurants, it is often more honored in the breach. As examples, he says at L’Atelier de Joël Robuchon, it’s forbidden, but at Ploum it’s no smoking only before 1:30 PM for lunch and 9:30 PM for dinner, whereas at le Bistrot du Sommelier, they tell you there are no places but in smoking; and L’Ami Jean ’s chef, a nonsmoker, is reluctant to discourage it, yet at Les Deux Canards, it’s been forbidden since 1984, largely due to the wife of the patron’s allergy to it; finally, at the Table de Lucullus, the host, who’s posted amusing signs about not smoking, allows a cigarette after eating. Go figure! However, Demorand lists the following in addition to a longer list available at the web site for Pure Air:
Frascati
Napoli Food
Le Petit Vatel
Le Salon de Hélène
Delicabar
Chez Germaine
Le Florimond
La Table du Lancaster
Sale e Pepe
La Table de Hélène
Sushiya

[John Whiting]

Several years ago in Versailles, in an ancient resataurant now diseased, the dining room had a row of tables along one wall designated as the smoking area. It was unpleasantly dark, and so no one sat there. The non-smoking area, i.e. the rest of the room, was of course full of smokers.

Fortunately, the French exhibit the same indifference in their enforcement of the EU's cheese-making regulations.

[Laidback]

I didn't sart visiting France until 1994 on a regular basis but during this decade there has been quite an improvement in the acceptance of non smoking areas. I am sure in the past several of you have shared my experience of asking for a non smoking table and having the ashtray removed from the table while on each elbow there were smokers. It seems that non fumeur signs are perceived as rather droll suggestions to many French people. Times are thankfully changing; several occasions this last trip when I called for reservations, I was asked if I preferred fumeur or non fumeur, and Le Florimond stated nicely that they were now completely non fumeur, as is Le P'tit Troquet. Both places were full so it doesn't appear to have negatively impacted their business.

John, was the ancient restaurant in Versaille's disease smoke related, cholesterol or just old age?

[cigalechanta]

My last visit to the Camargue restaurent La Chassagnette was not so enjoyable because a guy at the table in Front of us was smoking cigarillo after cigarillo through each course and here we are seated on a terrace in front of an herb garden. But it figures, he didn't seem to like all the great dishes presented.
The waiters seemed to be annoyed by him, yet nothing was said to make him put out his cigars.

[Gabrielle Claudine]

To add to the thread, we had a novel experience today: While dining in a small (18 covers, no ventilation) but very good restaurant in the 11th Arr., we noticed a couple, who had no reservation, convince the chef’s wife to permit them to sit at the bar. She agreed; immediately they began to smoke and drink. Soon another couple at the table in front of us finished their meal and the couple at the bar asked to take their places at the table. Again, Madame agreed. As soon as they sat down, the man prepared to light another cigarette. Immediately, an older French woman sitting at the table next to ours said in French, essentially: “Monsieur, please, I’m allergic to smoke”. He put out his cigarette. Within a short time, a new couple arrived and was seated next to the ‘smokers’. The male smoker immediately engaged the new arrivals in small talk about the ‘freedom’ to smoke. And, very soon the male smoker began to fondle a cigarette and eventually he lit it; apparently feeling supported by the new arrivals. Right away, the woman next to us signaled Madame and protested. Madame admonished the smoker to cease. Indeed, we think she told him and his companion to leave. We’re delighted that the French themselves have decided to complain, so it’s not always we “American puritans” who desire smokeless good food experiences.

[bleudauvergne]

I've been in two situations where my French companions strongly protested when a smokers' table began to cloud the atmosphere around it. The first time, in Paris, the man felt compelled to light up despite the non smoking sign and the protest, and it was a difficult situation. The second time, outdoors, the smokers insisted that they be allowed to smoke (there were 6 of them if I remember correctly), and when our food arrived they all thankfully put them out.

[Bux]

Gabrielle Claudine, on Dec 1 2004, 03:02 AM, said:

. . .  it’s not always we “American puritans” who desire smokeless good food experiences.

I must protest the use of the word "puritan" to describe someone who wishes to enjoy the full voluptuous experience of tasting all of his food.

[Eden]

For my previous trips to Paris (and elsewhere in Europe) I have found http://www.smokefreeworld.com/ very helpful although it also at times has outdated information...

My husband is very allergic to smoke, so we plan our trips fairly carefully and always cary a list of local smokefree places with us in case we want to stop for an impromptu meal.

Thank you all for the additional resources. I am so grateful that more of Europe is becoming available to people for whom smoke is a real problem.
Eden

[John Talbott]

This Forum is a “happening place” and the recent thread on US/FR culinary cultural differences shows how active we are. But, there seems to be no subject more generative of passion in this Forum than smoking in French restaurants (leave aside smoking inside and outside the RER cars, hospitals and art galleries).

I have a self-imposed rule I use a propos criticizing persons/customs/practices/etc in other countries/cultures/religions/etc.; to wit, keep the mouth firmly shut until others criticize themselves, then it’s “free ball”….“all men come in” time.

Full Disclosure: I have never inhaled (tobacco smoke), often note smokers/smoking in my reviews and change tables when overwhelmed with fumes. That said, I’m also not as sensitive as my wife Colette and others are to smoke/smokers in Paris restos. And, since I am a guest-worker, I take it as gospel that “when in Rome…..” That is, if “they” want it this way, so be it, I have no vote (not this year, but next year I will.)

However, two items today prompted a revision of my American stereotype of French citizens’ attitudes (this mind you, one day after an IPSOS poll showed that only 1% of the French polled wanted Jacques Chirac back in 2007) – specifically - that they tolerate if not encourage smoking, think individual freedoms trump public health and don’t believe some research (e.g., the U.S. Surgeon General’s Report – now 42 years old) because it comes from an Anglo-Saxon country.

Item 1 – a letter to the editor in today's Metro entitled “Kamakize smokers,” that essentially attacked a prior article that said that deaths caused by smoking are no worse than those caused by alcohol, fatigue, drugs, obesity and hunger. The author’s (Vincent’s) point; smokers are “serial killers” [sic] because second-hand smoke kills, whereas the other conditions are self-limiting (e.g. one kills only oneself).

Item 2 – Conrail, our friendly neighborhood rail system, is banning smoking (as did the TGV’s earlier), now, well, soon (there’s a grace period until passengers are informed).

So “what’s the point Dad?” I cannot but quote our common-law poet laureate, M. Dylan - “the times they are a changin’.”

[menton1]

I'm sure it won't be too long before France, like its fellow EU members Italy and Ireland, will ban smoking in restaurants.

As a matter of fact, a NYT article has talked of a new bill to ban smoking in restos in my native New Jersey.

Its amazing, smoking is now banned in so many countries, US States and municipalities, with restaurants and bars no worse for wear after the ban. But the same tired arguments persist in protest before the new laws are passed, such as, loss of business, individual rights, etc. You would think the protesters might look at the huge numbers of countries, states and cities where smoking is interdit and realize that revenues are not affected adversely, and that life goes on normally after such bans.

[Felice]

I was in the wine bar Fish, La Boissonerie last week for lunch and noticed a sign saying they were now 100% non-smoking. It was the very first day, so I'm not sure how it was going, but will definitely ask the next time I am there.

[John Talbott]

Felice, on Feb 1 2006, 12:46 PM, said:

I was in the wine bar Fish, La Boissonerie last week for lunch and noticed a sign saying they were now 100% non-smoking.  It was the very first day, so I'm not sure how it was going, but will definitely ask the next time I am there.

Outstanding, joining one of my favorites - La Cerisaie.
Bye the bye, I just noticed that Time Out Paris notes no smoking rooms and wheelchair access.

[raisab]

I called Pre Verre yesterday for a reservation and was caught completely off guard when they asked Fumeur ou Non-Fumeur.
Fish is now non-smoking? I will be eating dinner at Pre Verre Friday but I will finish off the night at Fish or start if off or both.