[Marco_Polo]

I've just got back from my usual Wednesday afternoon ride, a pretty miserable, cold, wet, winter 35-miler (if I'm honest). After a hot bath, I'm feeling better now, and absolutely ravenous. When you've been out in the cold for two or three hours, exercising hard and using up all that stored glycogen in your muscles, that hollow-to-your-soul feeling of emptiness in anticipation of eating always makes food taste all the better, don't you think? So what's for dinner?

Well, for me, in such circumstances, it is always something ridiculously simple (because I'm knackered), but incredibly filling and satisfying. Most always pasta.

For example, today I've rummaged around the organic vegetable box that is delivered on Wednesdays and it looks promising: some tasty valour potatoes, some bright green organic broccoli, a handful of calabrese, some other unidentified winter greens. So this is what I'll do: sauté about five fat cloves of garlic and a couple of chopped fairly fiery red chillies in a fair amount of extra-virgin olive oil; peel, cube and par-boil the spuds, then add them to the garlicy oil; cut the broc into small florets then add to the mixture along with the sliced greens. Season to taste with coarse sea salt and coarsely ground black pepper, then let the whole lot stew until tender. Then I'll add a ladle or so of homemade chicken stock, boiled up from the carcase of last night's dinner. Meanwhile I'll cook a fair amount of stubby pasta like penne or tortiglioni and when al dente, add to the vegetable-and-chili medley and mix well. Serve generously (that's an understatement) in bowls topped with a good dribble of best extra-virgin olive oil. The oil-coated pasta, potatoes and greens, combined with the heat of the chili and the crunch of the coarse sea salt just seems to hit the spot, washed down with lots of cold water and, why not, a tumbler or two (or three) of fairly light Pinot Grigio.

My first big ride of the year is this Sunday, a 200k cycle over the lanes and valleys of Devon. So I'll be eating lots of pasta over the next days.

Any other hungry cyclists? What do you enjoy eating after a long or arduous ride? Any favourite recipes to share?

MP

[clothier]

Although I'm sloth-like by nature, my brother the former pro rider (Team Saturn), would say you are nuts with a diet like that. The idea of eating chilies, or anything spicy post-ride is asking for trouble later on. He's also say you need to mix in some protein within 45 minutes or so of finishing your ride.

As for me, well, I've been lucky ( ? ) enough to be inlcuded on some post ride food gorges that he's had, and frankly, I like what you are cooking better than what he has.

[cakewalk]

Interesting. For me, a long ride is not much by comparison to what you're doing. Twenty miles is a biggie for me (but I'm hoping to increase that over the summer). Anyway, my question is: what's best to eat after a workout like that, carbs or protein? I usually crave the carbs, and pasta and potatoes sounds great to me, but I was recently working with a trainer (just for a few sessions) who kept stressing that high protein was ultimately better. Any thoughts? (I'd also stay away from anything spicy.)

[clothier]

like I said, I'd rather sit then ride, but the current school of thought (and it could change in 5 minutes or so) is that you increase your ability to re-build your muscles if you eat protein with in a certain time frame of finishing your excersise.

And telling you that, I'm out of knowledge.

My knowledge is 42 miles long, but only 1/4 thick.

[Dahomechef]

Another cyclist here. I like to stick to the dirt, so I don't do the kind of miles you do, but after a 2 or 3 hour ride hucking it over the hills I do work up one ravenous appetite. Lately I've been trying to actually ignore the nutritional "experts" and see what my body wants (hopefully something currently in my fridge, yes?). While carb lust is high on the list, I've been adding more and more protein to it.

For me that would be pasta (of course) but I might throw in some diced leftover chicken, or crisp up some bacon and stir it back into the leftover risotto. I find the combination really satisfying. I'm usually too whacked and too hungry to actually start something from scratch. Must.Have.Food.Now. kind of thing.

I also like heat for these feeds, and not sure why clothier reported this is not a good idea--haven't had any repercussions.

Do you GU on your rides?

[Tater]

I've been reading up on post-ride recovery lately (I'm NOT an experience cyclist-a year and a couple of thousand miles under my belt). I have trouble on Sunday rides after a long Saturday ride.

That said, all the experts I've read say you need complex proteins within 30 minutes post-ride. This helps your muscles rebuild quickly and properly after being "torn down" by the ride. Those I trust suggest whey protein mixed in milk (or orange juice). I'm sure any good, complex protein would be satisfactory (meat, eggs, etc) but I don't have time to prepare that generally. Take it for what it's worth from some uknown internet poster, but there is support amongst cyclists out there on the web.

Your recipe sounds delicious by the way.

[Marco_Polo]

cakewalk, on Mar 3 2004, 12:53 PM, said:

Anyway, my question is: what's best to eat after a workout like that, carbs or protein?

The main energy source when cycling relatively briskly is glycogen, metabolised from carbohydrate and stored in the muscles. This is a finite source of energy that must constantly be renewed. That's why any who do long distance exercise stoke up on pasta and other carbs (and in the case of cycling, eat such foods while on the hoof -- I carry flapjacks, muesli bars, bananas etc and try to eat a little and often, especially on all-day or longer rides).

As for performance racers (like your brother), they may well need more protein in their diets. Tour riders used to traditionally eat large quantities of steak at the end of the day. I'm neither a racer, nor am I a vegetarian: yet after lengthy (or even not so lengthy) exercise, what my body craves most of all is carbohydrates, mostly pasta.

I guess I'm unlikely ever to be a candidate for the Atkins.

As for chili, well, no problems there for me: life is too short to eat bland food.

[Jensen]

Okay, it's nought to do with cycling but there is a very good PowerPoint slide show from a performance vet online in which he discusses when to feed CHOs, proteins, and other supplements.

Sports Vet Presentation

This link is to the pertinent part of the presentation. In short, he recommends complex CHOs prior to activity, simple CHOs during activity, and protein and complex CHOs post-activity. There is also a window of time post-activity during which the immune system is depressed.

Dayton likes a pre-race cookie (complex CHO) and a post-race snack of raw beef and a cookie.

[yellow truffle]

I agree that food tastes better when you are hungry. But if I eat right after a ride, I cannot put down too much, just enough to ease the hunger pains and give myself enough time to prepare a nutritional meal after the shower. Most sports nutritionist agree that you should get some fluids and a small amount of food into your system, after you get off the bike. This will help your recovery. If you consume food within 20 minutes of your workout, it is like free calories. Supposedly your body is still burning calories from your workout. Just dont over do it.

As a recreational, non-competitive clylist (3000 miles annualy) who live's in Chicago, my post ride meal loading begins with a cool bottle of Bass Ale. But mostly I do the pasta thing. Anywhere from carbonara (basic), olive oil with lots of garlic, or tomato sauce (with ground turkey) for short rides (under 50) to lemon risotto (with porchini), with a side of marsala chicken and an arugula salad for long rides (over 60). I wash this off with a few glasses of Prosseco or Chianti (depends on the mood). I know its as Italian theme, but it goes great when watching old cycling movies while eating. I miss Marco.

Protein is great for after the ride, but will not help you for the long term (like tomorrow). Most cyclists dont want to gain mass. It's more weight they have to carry up a hill. Carbs are a staple food for cyclist (or any endurance athlete). Carbs are the main source of fuel. As said in previous posts, screw atkins.

What is the beer that Lance likes to drink. I think it is a bock.

See the links below for more info on sports nutrition.

Performance Sports Training Tips
The Mathematics of Race Fueling

[clothier]

hey look, the fat guy who never excersises is going to quibble.

there's no such thing as "free calories".

[yellow truffle]

Marco_Polo, on Mar 3 2004, 01:10 PM, said:

I've just got back from my usual Wednesday afternoon ride, a pretty miserable, cold, wet, winter 35-miler (if I'm honest)... My first big ride of the year is this Sunday, a 200k cycle over the lanes and valleys of Devon. So I'll be eating lots of pasta over the next days.

Marco_Polo I hope you are ready for your ride. I know how it feels to do the first ride of the year. I hope that you have enough miles under your belt so far this year to do a 124 miler. I dont do this until May. Where do you live?


Are there any eGullet'er cyclists in the Heartland?

[yellow truffle]

clothier, on Mar 3 2004, 03:09 PM, said:

hey look, the fat guy who never excersises is going to quibble.

there's no such thing as "free calories".

clothier, the phrase "free calories," is for my Bass Ale.

By the time I finish cooking, I finish my second.

cheers, kampai, salute, nastrovia, prost, chin chin, etc....

[clothier]

the aforementioned brother lives in Flint, MI, now.

[GG Mora]

I tend to feed my body some carbs within the first half hour or so after a good ride. A quick banana or bagel or oatmeal cookie, or even a beer. Then I stock up on protein at the next available meal. I find that what I eat before the ride is most important. If it's a morning ride, I'll do eggs and cheese and whole grain something. Later in the day, I like to fuel up with a tunafish and peanut butter sandwich (on whole grain bread).

And yeah, to answer whomever it was that asked, I GU. I usually shoot some GU before I start a big climb. Any ride here in So. VT. is going to include climb, no getting around it. For every 10 miles of ride, the average climb is 700 – 1,000 feet. But then there are the epic climbs, the 5 mile guts with 8 – 12% grade. When you hit one of those towards the end of a 40-miler, GU can be your best friend.

This post has been edited by GG Mora: 03 March 2004 - 02:20 PM

[Jensen]

yellow truffle, on Mar 3 2004, 01:04 PM, said:

Protein is great for after the ride, but will not help you for the long term (like tomorrow). Most cyclists dont want to gain mass. It's more weight they have to carry up a hill. Carbs are a staple food for cyclist (or any endurance athlete). Carbs are the main source of fuel.

This is interesting because, in performance dogs, the opposite is true. Sprint athletes (greyhounds and whippets) need the CHOs as a glycogenic energy source. Once a canine athlete moves past the "sprint" (a sprint activity is defined as lasting less than 30 seconds to 2 minutes in duration), then anaerobic energy systems kick in and protein and fat are used as the main energy source.

If one compares the protein and fat compositions of foods geared to the sled dog racer, one sees that those ratios are much higher than the average "performance" feed.

I know one cannot make a direct correlation between human and canine athletes but I also know that the energy utilisation cycles at a cellular level are the same. The Krebs cycle acts the same in my cells as it does in my dogs'. We both will eventually drop into anaerobic metabolic processes (although, I think for humans, it happens at a later time ... maybe 12 minutes instead of 2?).

I wonder why it's so different. Maybe we store glycogen differently ....

[yellow truffle]

GG Mora, on Mar 3 2004, 03:19 PM, said:

If it's a morning ride, I'll do eggs and cheese and whole grain something.

And yeah, to answer whomever it was that asked, I GU. I usually shoot some GU before I start a big climb. Any ride here in So. VT. is going to include climb, no getting around it. For every 10 miles of ride, the average climb is 700 – 1,000 feet. But then there are the epic climbs, the 5 mile guts with 8 – 12% grade. When you hit one of those towards the end of a 40-miler, GU can be your best friend.

GG Mora, you are the man. I cannot put down eggs and cheese before a ride, unless there is a delay of over two hours. I usually end up having an double espresso and four mini biscottis. I compensate for energy by having a big dinner the night before. And I bring lots of energy bars and cytomax for fluids.

I have not GU'ed. The first impression made me nauseous. But I am training to do the Cycle to the Sun, in August of this year. Maybe I had better start with the GU.

Are there any other sponsored/support rides in your area? One that interests me, is in Georgia called the Six Gap Century.

[GG Mora]

yellow truffle, on Mar 3 2004, 04:43 PM, said:

GG Mora, you are the man.

Just don't tell my husband.

Judging from your intended sponsored rides, I would say that YOU are da man. I ride this shit at my own pace; no racing for me, thanks.

[Tater]

yellow truffle-
The 6 Gap gets great reviews and is probably one of the better centurys in the southeast. There's another near Chattanooga coming up in May or early June called the 3 Mountain/3 State that's good as well. I have ridden neither, but ride with a group here in Memphis that hits both of them.

[yellow truffle]

Jensen, on Mar 3 2004, 03:20 PM, said:

yellow truffle, on Mar 3 2004, 01:04 PM, said:

Protein is great for after the ride, but will not help you for the long term (like tomorrow). Most cyclists dont want to gain mass. It's more weight they have to carry up a hill. Carbs are a staple food for cyclist (or any endurance athlete). Carbs are the main source of fuel.

This is interesting because, in performance dogs, the opposite is true. Sprint athletes (greyhounds and whippets) need the CHOs as a glycogenic energy source. Once a canine athlete moves past the "sprint" (a sprint activity is defined as lasting less than 30 seconds to 2 minutes in duration), then anaerobic energy systems kick in and protein and fat are used as the main energy source...

Jensen, you are perfectly correct. I write poorly sometimes, or perhaps I misunderstood you, either way, my appologies.

In the sport of professional (skinny wheel, road) cycling, you have sprinters, time trialists, mountain climbers, and track riders. Track riders and sprinters have similar muscle make up. They have the fast twitch muscle fibers. Time trialists and the folks who win multi stage races (think Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France) have lots of slow twitch fibers. Fast twitch muscle fibers are fibers that are capable of rapid fire responses for shorter amounts of time. Slow twitch muscle fibers are more efficient in muscle firing, enabling you to run longer at a consistant rate.

Most sprinters have larger thighs and weight to them is not a major consideration (in relation to mountain climbers). These are the guys that will eat protein to build those ever important leg muscles with weight training. And the sprint event is similiar to the dogs. 30 seconds to 2 minutes, reaching 100% at the line, driving the bike to over 40mph. We call them the big dogs.

[Jensen]

yellow truffle, on Mar 3 2004, 02:21 PM, said:

In the sport of professional (skinny wheel, road) cycling, you have sprinters, time trialists, mountain climbers, and track riders. Track riders and sprinters have similar muscle make up. They have the fast twitch muscle fibers. Time trialists and the folks who win multi stage races (think Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France) have lots of slow twitch fibers. Fast twitch muscle fibers are fibers that are capable of rapid fire responses for shorter amounts of time. Slow twitch muscle fibers are more efficient in muscle firing, enabling you to run longer at a consistant rate.

This sounds just like the dogs...we talk about fast twitch muscle fibres too. Increasing them is definitely a breeding goal in whippets and greys but not really considered in a dog like the saluki.

It's all clear to me now that I've got the cycling "breeds" straightened out in my head ...

[Marco_Polo]

Thanks for all the input. Some great points being raised. I guess I've never approached diet that scientifically, more from a trial and (often) error approach.

Last year when doing an SR series (200, 300, 400, 600K rides), I tried eating lots of different things on rides. Even went on a high-protein binge munching on beef jerky on longer rides. Never got on with any sports bars, too dense, indigestible.

I agree that what you eat before a ride is very important. Night before, no more than half a bottle of wine, plus big carbo feast. Morning (if time) oatmeal with maple syrup (great slow-burning carb) plus scrambled eggs. During longer rides, we often stop at cafés, and I'll eat something high carb like (sounds terrible I know but it tastes great on a ride) baked beans on toast, or jacket potato. Plus lots of muesli bars, flapjacks, and cups of tea (with plenty of sugar). In France and Italy, options are better than in Britain.

Drinking is as important as eating (I drink upwards of 10 litres of fluid on a really big day's ride, especially if it's hot). I try and use isotonic and energy powders, but avoid the denser high carb drinks.

I have used GU, try and suck a tube down 10-15 minutes before I need it (usually at the end of a long ride before a last killer hill -- it is very hilly where I live). The energy boost is noticeable, definitely, but ridiculously short-lived. Get the timing wrong, and it kicks in after, not while on the climb!

Good to know there are lots of cyclists out there who also love eating.

Cheers,

MP

[hathor]

Excellent links and info.
The way someone explained it to me is that carbs are the kindling and protein is the logs on the fire. If you need energy quick, go for the carbs, add protein later for the long haul. For instance, if you are doing a multi day event. I use this advice for all different sports, and it works pretty well.
Good advice to use the GU before you really need it, although desperation makes it much easier to go down. (same with the jacket, put it on before you get really chilled.)
and...after a summer mountain bike ride: really cold watermelon in a cooler in the back of the car. Your already muddy, and getting sticky just adds to the fun. Let the season begin!!

[GG Mora]

hathor, on Mar 3 2004, 06:00 PM, said:

Let the season begin!!

Oh, man...and how. Where I live in VT, the road bikers are generally the skiiers that need an equivalent obsession for warmer months. Ski season looks to be dying a quick, early death, so bring on the biking!

[budrichard]

As a former USCF road racer, my rides are shorter(60 miles) and faster(20+ mph round trip average depending on wind and weather) than the touring faction. I only carry a cell phone, Gatorade with pre-measured dry powder to mix up at stops along the way if i exhaust my 3 20oz bottles. Gu, cookies, bananas, you name it go in my pockets with no tools or spares.
Constant hydration and frequent eats are the rule. After stopping, tops on the list is hydration and electrolite replacement. Hunger for solid food will kick in and then I eat everything in sight. -Dick

[iguana]

yellow truffle, on Mar 3 2004, 02:10 PM, said:

Are there any eGullet'er cyclists in the Heartland?

Yes, right here! Chicago is a great cycling and eating town-- check out www.chicagocyclingclub.org for a fun riding and eating group. Also, there has been some talk about a Heartland bicycle team-- PM me if you're interested.

[yellow truffle]

Does any one know what they put in those feed bags during some on the racing events. Either the European professional circuit or even some of our x-Saturn team members and our former USCF road racer? Is it specific to the person? Or does the whole team get the same bag? Then do you trade items in the bag with other teams just like you would trade lunches during grade school? And is this the only time eat? I know they have water carriers, but do they have snakc carriers, too?

GG Mora, on Mar 3 2004, 03:51 PM, said:

yellow truffle, on Mar 3 2004, 04:43 PM, said:

GG Mora, you are the man.

Just don't tell my husband.

So you are a female, into food and cycling, but married. D*** it.
I want a forum that talks about food and cycling, but only for single people. Does this exist? lol lol

iguana, on Mar 3 2004, 09:03 PM, said:

Yes, right here!  Chicago is a great cycling and eating town-- check out www.chicagocyclingclub.org for a fun riding and eating group.  Also, there has been some talk about a Heartland bicycle team-- PM me if you're interested.

iguana, I am interested. I will PM you. I am telling you now because I have not PM any one before. So if you dont here from me, maybe you should contact me. lol. I like the idea of an eGullet Heartland Century ride.

Also, a great resource for you heartlanders looking for some cycling activities.
Mike Bentley's Midwest Bike RIdes

[jsolomon]

You all ride much more than me. A long ride in my lexicon is actually shorter than a long run (10 mile ride vs 13 mile run).

My refueling meal is pickles when I get in to get the crap out of my mouth. Then, good beer with bacon and pasta and real alfredo.

But, I don't ride competitively. I just eat what tastes great.

[Boris_A]

Marco_Polo, on Mar 3 2004, 12:10 PM, said:

a 200k cycle over the lanes and valleys of Devon.
What do you enjoy eating after a long or arduous ride?

Beer and Aspirin.

No, seriously, in my younger days, I did long rides in the Alps with serious climbs (Galibier, Stelvio, Ventoux and the likes).
But back then in the 70/80ies, there was not so much sophistication on the amateur level. Dried bananas and dried pears ad nauseam. Water in your "bidon". And after 150km and 3000m dislevel, I just ate everything not too fat.

However, our best "culinary" rides (my girl friend any I, that is) have been in France. Aquitaine, Languedoc, Auvergne, Provence. Two low rider bags on my bike, a handle bag at the other, (5 kg luggage altogether) a credit card, some money, michelin maps and some notes taken from "Logis de France" and 2-3 weeks of time. From Lyon to Bordeaux to Perpignan, for example.
Bred, goat cheese and fruits during the ride. Every evening a two person feast in a small family restaurant. Local food, regional dishes and local wine.

Best holidays ever. Time was frozen. A week was a month im memory.
"Vive la petite reine"!!!

[Marco_Polo]

Boris_A, on Mar 4 2004, 01:21 AM, said:

However, our best "culinary" rides (my girl friend any I, that is) have been in France. Aquitaine, Languedoc, Auvergne, Provence...Best holidays ever.  Time was frozen. A week was a month im memory.
"Vive la petite reine"!!!

That sounds great, Boris. Lyon to Bordeaux to Perpignan is quite a ride!

I love cycle touring, too. Some of our best family holidays have been when we have cycled onto a cross-Channel ferry to Brittany, me, my wife, and then two young children, together with panniers, etc. You feel like kings of the road cycling onto the big boat ahead of all the waiting cars; then you're first off on docking in France. We wouldn't go far at all (my son was only 8 or so, my daughter 3 and in a Burley trailer that I towed behind my bike, loaded down with camping equipment and just about everything but the kitchen sink). It was just wonderful, cycling past artichoke fields, stopping for frequent treats, at patisseries for tartes aux fraises, a sandwiche aux rillettes at lunch with a bottle of wine (for us) and Orangina for the kids by a river somewhere, or maybe a galette au sarrasin, and at night, all tired and going out en famille to some little place to enjoy a dozen huitres de Cancale or (on the last night) a huge plateau des fruits de mer. Lately my wife and I have done some 'credit card' tandem touring, too, mainly in Devon and Cornwall. It's the only way to travel. Looking forward to much more of it in the future, and especially to riding in the Alps.

MP

[kappaw]

As a new member of eGullet, it's great to see a marraige of my three favorite activities...cooking, eating and cycling.

It's early in the season for me so most rides are between 20-25 miles but after the weather warms and the snow is gone the rides will get longer. After eating plenty of Power Bar and GU, I'm usually of the "Eat whatever the body wants" school of thought.

Yellow Truffle, thanks for the Mike Bentley link! As a Wisconsin resident (just north of Milwaukee) I, too, would be interested in an eGullet Century.