[terrarich]

Hello All,

In an effort to avoid the usual suspects this Valentine's Day I sought out chocolates for my wife that couldn't be bought at the major department stores. Not being able to find much in the culinary wasteland of Central Michigan I sought out sources in NYC. I flipped flopped between Payard, Torres, and La Maison, settling on Torres because my wife might at least be familiar with him and therefore somehow impressed with my effort.

Did I make the right call? I am interested in what others have to say.

Terrarich

[Moopheus]

Of those three I have only had the Torres chocolates, so I can't say if the others are "better" but they are certainly far better than anything you are likely to find in a department store. Every now and then I have to have some of his chocolate-covered candied ginger, that's pure bliss. Hmmm, maybe I will have to walk down there later, now that you've made me think about it. . . .

[docsconz]

Any state that is home to a company like Zingerman's can't be that much of a culinary wasteland. Torres was probably a fine choice. I ordered chocolates from LA Burdick in N.H. for my wife. Vosges in Chicago is another good choice.

[Comfort Me]

Vosges is nice, but I prefer Peron Belgium Chocolates from Evanston, Illinois. Words can't do them justice. It's like art and sex, only edible.

[cheeseandchocolate]

I'm a big fan of Burdick's chocolates, as mentioned by docsconz. Really intense, deep chocolate flavors with unusual spices thrown in--but not gimmicky or overwrought. Plus, they're gorgeous. I just the other day finished the last of a little 1/4-lb box I bought myself. Now I'm sad.

[cbarre02]

Why not try making your own? You may not have the sam experience that torres does, but every experince i've had with food gifts is always better when they are made buy the giver. Your wife may feal the same way.

[ghostrider]

While changing trains in Boston after Xmas, noticed a Serenade Chocolate shop in South Station.

I am a sucker for (a) dark chocolate and (b) hazelnuts combined with chocolate in almost any fashion. Serenade had some lovely looking dark hazelnut clusters. So I bought all that they had that afternoon(about 1/2 lb). Good move. Absolute heaven - deep chocolate flavor, &, thank goodness, not overly sweet, great touch of that bitterness which I personally enjoy.

Can't compare with any of those NYC chocolatiers cuz I've never had 'em. But I would go for anything dark from Serenade again in a nanosecond. And have no doubt that I will at some point.

SerenadeChocolatier

This post has been edited by ghostrider: 10 February 2004 - 12:33 PM

[TrishCT]

Never had the Torres or Payard so I can't comment on them. The chocolates from La Maison du Chocolat are very rich tasting and come in a brown leatherlike classy presentation box.

My husband loves the chocolate covered cherries from Li Lac, also a NYC purveyor. And, despite the fact that they can be bought in a department store (but only one and that is the one in NYC), Martine's at Bloomingdale's makes divine chocolates.

Check out martineschocolates.com-- Now don't those chocolates look great? The "fresh cream" ones melt in your mouth.

Avoid like the plague Godiva's G line. Overpriced, overhyped, underwhelming.

This post has been edited by TrishCT: 10 February 2004 - 02:38 PM

[Moopheus]

I can live without the cherries, but Li Lac does make pretty good chocolates.

This post has been edited by Moopheus: 10 February 2004 - 02:42 PM

[sput]

Just got turned on to chocolates from

BC McElrath out of Minneapolis

Wicked wicked wicked

Bet you can find them in Michigan or mail order in time for Valentines...

Faves:

Lavender and Black Peppercorn truffles...

[robyn]

terrarich, on Feb 10 2004, 10:13 AM, said:

Hello All,

In an effort to avoid the usual suspects this Valentine's Day I sought out chocolates for my wife that couldn't be bought at the major department stores.  Not being able to find much in the culinary wasteland of Central Michigan I sought out sources in NYC.  I flipped flopped between Payard, Torres, and La Maison, settling on Torres because my wife might at least be familiar with him and therefore somehow impressed with my effort.

Did I make the right call?  I am interested in what others have to say.

Terrarich

You'll have to ask your wife (and me next week because my husband got me chocolates from Torres too this time around). He's ordered from several places before. We both like Vosges (I like the chocolates - he likes the web site). I like Maison but he doesn't (he says the web site is a mess and ordering on the phone is worse). And even if the chocolates and the web site are good - there's always the matter of shipping (I live in Florida and if chocolates aren't packed/shipped right - I'll just wind up with a pile of goo). Vosges and Maison are both good on that count. Let's compare notes next week. Robyn

[terrarich]

docsconz, on Feb 10 2004, 10:56 AM, said:

Any state that is home to a company like Zingerman's can't be that much of a culinary wasteland. Torres was probably a fine choice. I ordered chocolates from LA Burdick in N.H. for my wife. Vosges in Chicago is another good choice.

I used to live in Ann Arbor, just a few blocks away from Zingermans. They used to carry a line of chocolates from the company in Evanston that has been mentioned in this thread. I now live an hour away (East Lansing) and can't make the drive as often as I would like.

I was really looking to buy direct from the chocolatier and not just a shop that carried chocolates.

[terrarich]

cbarre02, on Feb 10 2004, 12:25 PM, said:

Why not try making your own? You may not have the sam experience that torres does, but every experince i've had with food gifts is always better when they are made buy the giver. Your wife may feal the same way.

Try making my own? The funny thing is that I am currently a chef apprentice. I used to be a geographer, but followed my life's dream to be a professional cook. cooking used to be my hobby and my wife used to benefit from my pursuits, but now that I am actually cooking for a living I find very little time to cook at home anymore. I am supposed to work a certain amount of time in the pastry/bakery to satisfy requirements in my program, but there always seems to be a roadblock to my getting into the bakery.

Besides, I would love to sample the creations of a master like Jaques Torres and get my wife off of the Godiva bandwagon.

Terrarich

[challah-baker]

I recommend making your own. Making your own truffles is very easy. I have been dabbling in making truffles for awhile and just bought an 5KG block of Callebaut from choclatesource.com to use a base. It really wows people when you say they are homemade

[CRUZMISL]

How ironic. My Torres chocolates are being delivered tomorrow at my work in A2. Go figure. As far as your choice, I always order from Torres. Very consistent and the macadamia nuts are fantastic. Buy a lb for yourself.
Joe

[Steve Klc]

Determining one best is always self-defeating. Of the more established players already mentioned--Torres, Payard, Burdick, La Maison du Chocolat--all are still essential choices, all with established lines. Skillful, clean flavors, professional, respectfully French, somewhat safe, leaning toward an American audience. I've bought them all, enjoyed them for different reasons, and will continue to do so. I also really like buying other professionals work--and to the list of the best I've had recently consider a few smaller startups--in the past year I've really enjoyed work from Wegmans/Pierre Herme, Drew Shotts, Pat Coston and this little outfit called Chuao. I found myself in Encinitas and found them--very good work, nicely enrobed. Here are their links:

https://www.wegmans.com/ocs/sweets.asp

https://www.chuaocho...com/index2.html

http://www.theartofchocolate.com/

http://garrisonconfections.com/

Wegmans might pack the best punch overall with respect to price to value to quality.

I haven't had any chocolate mailorder from Robert Bennett of Miel Patisserie yet--but I'd trust the chocolate line and the pastry professionalism of this chef implicitly, if he were set up to ship:

http://www.mielpatis...e.com/index.htm

Haven't had Donnelly or Rechiutti in a while, and am not current with how commercial their lines may have become, but once upon a time their stuff was also very good--and they used very good chocolates, like Valrhona, El Rey and Sharffen Berger.

As far as some others, I'm neutral to indifferent, for various reasons, on Martines, Li-Lac, MarieBelle (even though Jacques makes it), Christopher Norman and buying from off-premise outlets--either due to pre-packaging, mishandling by poorly-trained counter staff, inadequate stock turnover, sitting on the shelves too long, using inferior chocolate (like CN using Schokinag.) Be careful--there can be old, dull chocolate out there. There are better options than these and/or more attractive pricing to be had. I also don't recommend Vosges at all. Better to look at for free, that way you don't have to wildly over-pay for fantastic package design housing inferior workmanship and gimmickry.

[jschyun]

Kron Chocolates (Dianne only not Tom) in Beverly Hills sells chocolates that are supposed to lift the woman's libido. Never had them, but I like her overpriced truffles. The best deal here is to come into the store, eat up as much of the free samples as possible, and then leave.

But the sex chocolates are probably going to be popular for Valentines.

[tammylc]

I like Richart a lot.

http://www.richart-chocolates.com/

[Steve Klc]

Tammy--do you buy them pre-packaged/mailorder or do you walk into stores and pick by the piece?

[robyn]

Steve Klc, on Feb 11 2004, 10:15 AM, said:

I also don't recommend Vosges at all. Better to look at for free, that way you don't have to wildly over-pay for fantastic package design housing inferior workmanship and gimmickry.

Just curious what you don't like about Vosges. I ran across the company for the first time in a boutique store in the Peninsula Hotel in Chicago (I was on vacation) - and I thought they were quite good - very interesting. When I had them for the first time - the featured collections were the St. Patrick's Day collection (for March) and the Green collection (for April). I've tried a couple of the other collections too - but the Green remains my favorite. Robyn

[terrarich]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I am thrilled to have such detailed and thought-out input on this matter. Hopefully I will never have to approach the Godiva counter again.

Terrarich

[tammylc]

Steve Klc, on Feb 11 2004, 04:13 PM, said:

Tammy--do you buy them pre-packaged/mailorder or do you walk into stores and pick by the piece?

The first time I had them they were a gift, brought for me from a friend who'd been in NYC. I think he got a package - it had 16 Petites and 4 different kinds of tasting squares. We had a decadent New Year's Party to ring in 2003, and I ordered some more Petites from mail order then. There's no store near me, alas. And the last time I was in downtown Chicago I didn't realize that they had a shop in one of the department stores on the Magnificent Mile. I'd love to go in and pick some by the piece, if I get a chance.

[JFLinLA]

Thought you'd all enjoy this profile of L'Artisan du Chocolat. This is new to me but I think I've got to head right out there.

[Samaki]

Just a few more cents to add to the pile, a bit belatedly, I know.
For my money the best chocoatles are still those produced by la maison du chocolat. Torres is very good too, though I'm not a consistently fond of his flavors as I am of Robert Linxe's. Payard I haven't yet tried. I used to be quite fond of Li-Lac, but now that my palate is accustomed to high end chocolates I find I can't eat them anymore. I haven't tried Burdick's in ages, but I used to love them. The one I really don't recommend, though, is Richart. They used to be excellent, and their pralines still taste terrific, but their workmanship has gotten sloppy over the years. Pick up a few pieces and look at the bottoms - you'll find many poorly enrobed. For taht kind of money I expect perfection. Now I feel kind of guilty for complaining, because I'm not that expert at it either, but then I'm just a one-person operation, and my prices are much, much lower.

[robyn]

Said I'd report back. Here's the report. Worked my way through a lot of Jacques Torres since Valentine's Day. Have to say that my favorite is still Maison du Chocolat. And I like Vosges second. Torres is third. My number 2 and 3 rankings are mostly based on the fact that I like the flavorings in Vosges more than the flavorings in Torres. More interesting - more fun. Neither can beat out a Maison du Chocolat trrufle though. Robyn

[chocophile]

Terrarich:

Asking what's the best chocolate is like asking what's the best wine. There are clusters of opinion that seem to agree, but ultimately it comes down to personal taste.

IN GENERAL, there is a "French" style of chocolate that tends to enrobed bittersweet ganache "palet" style truffles. The flavors are often very subtle - sometimes so subtle that you have trouble figuring out what the flavor is supposed to be. Of the brands you can get in the State, La Maison du Chocolat is hands down the best. The flavors are generally clean and recognizable and they are consistently well made. For my taste, the Zagora (fresh mint) is one of the best mints anywhere. I will be in Paris next month and plan to get some fresh Bernachon, Herme, Hevin, and others and I will report back.

Vosges is in the French style using Belgian chocolate. While their flavor combinations are interesting, they are quite subtle. Whether or not you like Vosges will depend a lot on how subtle you like the flavors in your chocolate. They are very good at marketing to their niche - chic chocolate; young, trendy, chocolate as lifestyle accessory. One thing to know however, is that I have been told that they buy their shells and have them filled.

Jubilee in Philadelphia is also in the French style (with French chocolate, Valrhona) but caters to socially responsible missions, not fashion. They make a very good mint, and their Cafe Noir - Mexican Coffe with whiskey is extraordinary - the flavors go back and forth between coffee and whiskey in waves in your mouth.

Jacques Torres is (obviously) in the French style but Steve, if you're gonna knock John Down/Christopher Norman for using Schokinag I can't believe you didn't point out that Jacques uses Belcolade. Jacques is a great guy and the "Emeril of pastry." However, given his reputation and what he charges - he should be making better pieces than he does, in my opinion. Interestingly, as Steve pointed out, he makes the chocoalte for MarieBelle using her recipes and I prefer MarieBelle to Jacques because the flavor combinations are more interesting and the peices are prettier.

IN GENERAL, there is an "American" style of chocolate that we know from Sees and other brands in the $18 and under price point. However, there is a "Nouvelle American" style that is popping up. The Nouvelle American style tends to be less "in your face" with flavors than the regular American style, but definitely more forward than the French style. There also seems to be a lot of experimentation with flavor in caramel with great results and there is a lot of experimentation with decoration.

Patrick Coston (formerly of Ilo and now at The Art of Chocolate), and Drew Shotts (of Garrison Confections) are two of the better-known practitioners of this style, but I am surprised that everyone missed Norman Love. For those of you who don't know, Norman was hired by Godiva for their new "G" collection, and while I have to agree with the overall perceptions of the regular Godiva line as being mediocre, "G" is actually very good. The major difference between "G" and what Norman makes for himself is that the "G" ganaches are very "dry." The low water activity level provides for added shelf life without preservatives. {Though TrishCT does not agree. I will say that they are perfect for their intended audience and will bring back to the Godiva fold those who defected for Neuhaus, Leonidas, and Teuscher, et al., and will raise awareness across the board for American artisan chocolatiers -- which is a very good thing.}

Kee Ling Tong of Chocolate Garden here in NYC was a student of Jacques' at FCI. Her work is amazing. She makes my personal favorite piece - her creme brulee truffle (not bruleed, actually, but a custard-filled dark shell) and what may be the best passion fruit chocolate heart going.

I second Steve's recommendation of Chuao in Encinitas - one of the few chocolatiers of their ilk that are using 100% "New World" chocolate -- El Rey. Several very nice caramels, clean, forward flavors.

Zingerman's is a great resource for those in the midwest looking for a chocolate fix. I've tried hard to figure out how to get his stuff here in NY and it's not easy.

Out Seattle way, try Fran's Grey Salt and Smoked Salt caramels. Really wonderful.

The one true tip I give to people when it comes to buying chocolate (apart from checking for freshness) is to say that the relationship you want to develop with your chocolatier is the one your grandmother wanted to have with her butcher. Over time, your chocolatier will learn to know what you like and will repay your loyalty by making the best recommendations, giving you the freshest stuff, and passing free tastings your way.

HTH,
Clay

This post has been edited by chocophile: 12 March 2004 - 06:32 AM

[robyn]

Thanks for your message Clay. As someone who loves chocolate - but who doesn't live in a major city - I kind of stumble onto things. E.g., I first found Vosges when we stayed in a hotel in Chicago in 2002 and it had a Vosges boutique there. There were giving away free samples . I'm glad that they sell on the internet - and that their shipping practices are excellent. I will look up some of the other places you recommend. If I can't get the items shipped - perhaps I will wind up in their parts of the world some day. Robyn

[thegreatdane]

Greetings,
This is my first post on this most excellent board. My eyes are buggin from all the reading I've done and there's still too much to cover.

Anyway, I thought I'd throw in my two cents about good chocolatiers. Just down the road from me is Roscar Chocolates. I visited them recently and Hans was as gracious as he was expert in making chocolate. Delicious product, very European/Belgian tradition, some interesting flavor combinations. One in particular; Tequila, lime, jalapeño. Their web site: # http://www.roscar.com/

From Austin,
Tom

[achevres]

[/QUOTE]Thought you'd all enjoy this profile of L'Artisan du Chocolat. This is new to me but I think I've got to head right out there. [QUOTE]

I can't open this link--they say the URL is expired. I am a registered user of the LA Times and can't find the article on the search function either.

[JFCampbell]

For a good selection of only the top brands check out Chocosphere. I have had excellent service from them.
http://www.chocosphere.com/

An excellent source for quality chocolates is See's Candies in California.
http://www.sees.com/
I particularly like their Chocolate Cremes (other chocolate cremes pale in comparison) and their Bordeux, both with dark chocolate coating. Be careful ordering the chocolate cremes ... twice I wasn't clear enough and got vanilla cremes. Alas, I'm diabetic now and can't really eat these delights, but I can dream ...