[ludja]

This is probably a silly question, but does anyone know if canned salmon generally uses farmed rather than wild salmon? It seems likely, since farmed is cheaper to produce.

My other question, (although I should probably do some googling first... ) is at what time did farm raised salmon take over wild in production? The last 10 years? (That's when salmon prices have seem to have dropped).

[fresco]

Actually, no. Think pretty well 100% of canned salmon is wild--mostly sockeye and pink, but some coho as well.
And you can blame (or thank) Canada, at least partially, and indirectly, for the drop in salmon prices.
About 20 years ago (perhaps more) Canadian scientists with government backing and Canadian fish and technology helped Chile establish a salmon farming industry. They can now produce fish cheaper than pretty well anyone else in the world and do so in enormous quantities, which has tended to put a very low ceiling on all salmon prices.
Much of the farmed salmon consumed in Canada now is from Chile, although this is not widely advertised, since Canada has major salmon farming operations on both coasts. Ludicrous.

[ExtraMSG]

I like it: Blame Canada.

It's interesting that the cheapeast producer is also the least polluted.

[Toliver]

Those feed companies wouldn't be headed by this guy, now would they?
Exxxxxx-cellent.

[ExtraMSG]

Here's a link to that NPR report. I don't have audio on this computer, so I can't listen to see if it has the whole thing or just the basic report (and I'm too lazy to change the switchbox to another computer and find it there or to get up and go to my laptop).

http://www.npr.org/f...hp?wfId=1589737

[VivreManger]

ludja, on Jan 9 2004, 12:19 PM, said:

This is probably a silly question, but does anyone know if canned salmon generally uses farmed rather than wild salmon? It seems likely, since farmed is cheaper to produce.

I can't find the link easily, but in the Northwest and in the Canada forum during the summer of '03 I was involved in long and well-informed discussions of wild versus farmed as well as canned salmon. The bottom line is that canned is usually wild. In Canada where they offer many more varieties of canned salmon than in the US, it is sometimes labelled wild, but generally in the US & in Canada it is not. Curiously all the Canadian labelled salmon I bought in Quebec was actually canned in the US -- Washington State -- even if the packer was Canadian.

[badthings]

ExtraMSG, on Jan 8 2004, 11:17 PM, said:

What's the net effect? Maybe I'm 10 times more likely to get colon cancer, but 20 times less likely to get the number one killer, heart disease.

bingo! I'm getting Hormone Replacement Therapy right now.

The relevant quote, from the other salmon thread:

Quote

he researchers used EPA guidelines to calculate the maximum amount of salmon that can be eaten before boosting cancer risk by at least 1 case in 100,000. For the most contaminated fish--from farms in Scotland and the Faroe Islands--the limit came to 55 grams of salmon (uncooked weight) every month, or a quarter of a serving. One half-serving a month of farmed salmon from Canada or Maine adds no significant risk, they say; and double that is acceptable for fish from Chile or the U.S. state of Washington. Some types of wild salmon from Alaska or British Columbia are safe to eat eight times a month.

Although no U.S. government agency has said how much fish one should eat, the American Heart Association recommends 168 to 336 grams per week. Consumption of the omega-3 fatty acids found in fatty fish reduces the risk of sudden cardiac death after a heart attack. For people with cardiovascular disease, that benefit outweighs any added cancer risk, Carpenter says.

[ExtraMSG]

That, then, would mean the American Heart Assoc. recommends 24 times the "safe" amount of fish. Man, Japanese people and Scandanavians must be so screwed.

[ExtraMSG]

New AP article on the industry's response:

http://story.news.ya...lth_fish_salmon

And another on the fish food makers:

http://story.news.ya...britain_fish_dc

This post has been edited by ExtraMSG: 09 January 2004 - 11:58 PM

[ExtraMSG]

SORRY ABOUT THE EXTRA -- GOT AN ERROR AND REPOSTED -- PLEASE DELETE

New AP article:

http://story.news.ya...lth_fish_salmon

This post has been edited by ExtraMSG: 09 January 2004 - 11:51 PM

[Chad]

Dunno if y'all have seen this yet, but wild Alaska salmon gets a clean bill of health.

Chad

[Mallet]

I posted this in the BC forum, but it may be of general interest as well:

abstract]

Quote

Rather than benefiting wild fish, industrial aquaculture may contribute to declines in ocean fisheries and ecosystems. Farm salmon are commonly infected with salmon lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis), which are native ectoparasitic copepods. We show that recurrent louse infestations of wild juvenile pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha), all associated with salmon farms, have depressed wild pink salmon populations and placed them on a trajectory toward rapid local extinction. The louse-induced mortality of pink salmon is commonly over 80% and exceeds previous fishing mortality. If outbreaks continue, then local extinction is certain, and a 99% collapse in pink salmon population abundance is expected in four salmon generations. These results suggest that salmon farms can cause parasite outbreaks that erode the capacity of a coastal ecosystem to support wild salmon populations.

[Ken Fox]

HOST'S NOTE: The following salmon discussion started out from this post in the Sous Vide topic.

NY_Amateur, on Sep 21 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

I made some salmon mi cuit tonight:


This ended up being part of a delicious meal:

Firstly, the salmon looks delicious, although personally speaking (as someone older than yourself) I hate getting sick and I'd have cooked it at a higher temperature. But then, that is just me.

In your blog you state it is Coho salmon and you aren't sure if it is wild or farmed. To my knowledge, none of the 3 "fine" Pacific "salmon" species are available farmed, they are all wild. I am speaking of King, also called Chinook, which is a larger fish than the other two, and Coho (often called "silver,") and Sockeye, the smallest, also called "Red" and sometimes "Blueback." Other wild Pacific salmon species include "chum," also called "dog salmon" by Alaskans, and "Pink," generally found canned, also called "humpback" or "humpies." The latter two are generally regarded by those from salmon producing areas as inedible unless eaten directly out of the water or smoked, and (otherwise) best served as dog food or maybe to prisoners in the state penitentiary.

True Atlantic salmon, as found (or used to be found) in Scotland and Norway, are often called "true salmon," whereas Pacific salmon is not regarded as really being salmon at all, but rather as "sea run trout." Farmed salmon, often called "Atlantic Salmon" on restaurant menus, is (to my knowledge) some sort of hybrid and not the same thing as the true wild Atlantic salmon. I personally regard it as inedible however it is prepared and have tried every which way to avoid eating it for a number of years. What sous vide might do to it I have no clue.

I'm no expert on salmon taxonomy and I'm just repeating what I learned as a former resident of Alaska and someone who has read a lot on the subject, never claiming to really have understood it.

Anyway, nice picture, and glad it turned out well.

ken

This post has been edited by Chris Hennes: 24 September 2008 - 07:05 AM

[NY_Amateur]

Fascinating! Thanks, that was a very interesting lesson. I am aware of Tasmanian sea trout which looks like "salmon" so that's not a far leap of the imagination to what you explained.

Is true "Atlantic" salmon available anymore?

[Ken Fox]

NY_Amateur, on Sep 21 2008, 11:09 PM, said:

Is true "Atlantic" salmon available anymore?

Wild salmon runs have been decimated by hydroelectric dams and other forces. There are still many healthy wild salmon runs in western continental North America and in Alaska. I believe there are still vibrant runs in Europe as well, although most salmon served in Europe is farmed.

My impression, based on no real knowledge, merely observation, is that some of the farmed stuff available in Europe is actually quite good. I don't know if species differences or the way the stuff is raised accounts for this. You can find salmon on the menu in many fine European restaurants that I am sure would not serve it if it was the same stuff you find farmed over here in the USA, and in response to questions I've usually been told the stuff was farmed. If someone can explain this I'd be interested to know why.

ken

[e_monster]

Ken Fox, on Sep 21 2008, 09:04 PM, said:

NY_Amateur, on Sep 21 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

I made some salmon mi cuit tonight:


This ended up being part of a delicious meal:

True Atlantic salmon, as found (or used to be found) in Scotland and Norway, are often called "true salmon," whereas Pacific salmon is not regarded as really being salmon at all, but rather as "sea run trout." Farmed salmon, often called "Atlantic Salmon" on restaurant menus, is (to my knowledge) some sort of hybrid and not the same thing as the true wild Atlantic salmon. I personally regard it as inedible however it is prepared and have tried every which way to avoid eating it for a number of years. What sous vide might do to it I have no clue.

I'm no expert on salmon taxonomy and I'm just repeating what I learned as a former resident of Alaska and someone who has read a lot on the subject, never claiming to really have understood it.

Anyway, nice picture, and glad it turned out well.

ken

Pacific salmon are not Atlantic Salmon but they are salmon (Family Salmonidae). They are a different genus than Atlantic Salmon but salmon nonetheless. They aren't "true salmon" only if one considers the Atlantic genus to be the only true salmon. Fishery scientists consider the genus to which the Pacific varieties belong to be salmon.

"Sea trout" is a common name and is applied to various completely unrelated fish. For example coho salmon is sometimes called sea trout -- as is a completely unrelated fish found in Norway.

As an aside, farm-raised salmon is responsible for the collapse of wild salmon everywhere that there is salmon farming and wild salmon. The decline of viable waterways and for salmon migration and overfishing also contribute but even with viable migration routes, salmon farming decimates the salmon runs. This has been known for a long-time by marine biologists and fishery scientists (I first heard about it in the early 80's in a documentary about the decline of wild salmon). A web search will provide a plethora of articles documenting this

This is one of the reasons that there is no commercial Atlantic salmon fishery.

Those that care about the continued existence of wild salmon will stay away from farmed salmon.

[NY_Amateur]

e_monster, on Sep 22 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

Ken Fox, on Sep 21 2008, 09:04 PM, said:

NY_Amateur, on Sep 21 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

I made some salmon mi cuit tonight:


This ended up being part of a delicious meal:

True Atlantic salmon, as found (or used to be found) in Scotland and Norway, are often called "true salmon," whereas Pacific salmon is not regarded as really being salmon at all, but rather as "sea run trout." Farmed salmon, often called "Atlantic Salmon" on restaurant menus, is (to my knowledge) some sort of hybrid and not the same thing as the true wild Atlantic salmon. I personally regard it as inedible however it is prepared and have tried every which way to avoid eating it for a number of years. What sous vide might do to it I have no clue.

I'm no expert on salmon taxonomy and I'm just repeating what I learned as a former resident of Alaska and someone who has read a lot on the subject, never claiming to really have understood it.

Anyway, nice picture, and glad it turned out well.

ken

Pacific salmon are not Atlantic Salmon but they are salmon (Family Salmonidae). They are a different genus than Atlantic Salmon but salmon nonetheless. They aren't "true salmon" only if one considers the Atlantic genus to be the only true salmon. Fishery scientists consider the genus to which the Pacific varieties belong to be salmon.

"Sea trout" is a common name and is applied to various completely unrelated fish. For example coho salmon is sometimes called sea trout -- as is a completely unrelated fish found in Norway.

As an aside, farm-raised salmon is responsible for the collapse of wild salmon everywhere that there is salmon farming and wild salmon. The decline of viable waterways and for salmon migration and overfishing also contribute but even with viable migration routes, salmon farming decimates the salmon runs. This has been known for a long-time by marine biologists and fishery scientists (I first heard about it in the early 80's in a documentary about the decline of wild salmon). A web search will provide a plethora of articles documenting this

This is one of the reasons that there is no commercial Atlantic salmon fishery.

Those that care about the continued existence of wild salmon will stay away from farmed salmon.

hrmm very interesting, guess I need to find some wild atlantic salmon, anyone know a place to get it in NYC or do I have to go fishing?