[ronnie_suburban]

cheeseandchocolate, on Aug 22 2003, 07:48 PM, said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned Jeffrey Steingarten.  LOVE Jeffrey Steingarten.  Now there's a man who is *driven* by food.

*nods emphatically*

=R=

[pjs]

tommy, on Aug 22 2003, 03:47 PM, said:

i don't think i've ever seen a more dorky personality than Rachel Ray.  first of all, anyone who giggles at their own inane "jokes" should be tarred and feathered.

the thing is, she's a cute girl, but the personality makes my stomach turn and makes her way less attractive than she should be.

I'll bet she rehearses all those histrionic hand gestures before taping and the crew keep their distance lest they're inadvertantly knocked out. It comes across as someone signing on crank.

PJ

[fifi]

pjs, on Aug 22 2003, 09:01 PM, said:

It comes across as someone signing on crank.

PJ

So that is what it is that bugs me about her!

[dmk7]

It seems to be universally agreed - Bobby Flay is irritating. Very. Amanda Hesser mentioned him in one "Food Diary" column, where she talks briefly about the "smirk" on his face. I can see that quite clearly.

I like Tony Bourdain and Alton Brown a lot. As much as I like Bourdain, I don't see what he meant about Alton Brown's "holier than thou" speech. I don't get A&E, but I saw part of Alton's acceptance speech on the internet (http://www.jamesbeard.org/awards/awards.php?year=2003) and it wasn't that bad. It was sort of self-deprecating, actually. Alton Brown may have just been surprised by being greeted by Tony Bourdain and not known how to respond that quickly and Bourdain just misunderstood. I think I'm being objective in saying this, having done the same thing myself many times - I was a completely socially inept dork for much of my life. I really find it hard to believe that he's a jerk - I've read MANY nice things from the people who have gone to his book signings. He'll sign anything, take pictures, and stay until the last person leaves. (Or the store kicks him out, I guess.)

[tommy]

dmk7, on Aug 23 2003, 09:52 AM, said:

I like Tony Bourdain and Alton Brown a lot.  As much as I like Bourdain, I don't see what he meant about Alton Brown's "holier than thou" speech.  I don't get A&E, but I saw part of Alton's acceptance speech on the internet (http://www.jamesbeard.org/awards/awards.php?year=2003) and it wasn't that bad.  It was sort of self-deprecating, actually.  Alton Brown may have just been surprised by being greeted by Tony Bourdain and not known how to respond that quickly and Bourdain just misunderstood.  I think I'm being objective in saying this, having done the same thing myself many times - I was a completely socially inept dork for much of my life.    I really find it hard to believe that he's a jerk - I've read MANY nice things from the people who have gone to his book signings.  He'll sign anything, take pictures, and stay until the last person leaves.  (Or the store kicks him out, I guess.)

welcome to egullet, alton.

[Gerry Dawes]

malcolmjolley, on Aug 22 2003, 06:57 AM, said:

Someone needs to mention Elizabeth David, so I will.

Maybe the first true "food celebrity" in the sense that she wasn't famous for being a chef or a home economist.

Doesn't count, she's in the Goddess category.

[Jinmyo]

Toliver, on Aug 22 2003, 06:59 PM, said:

-Jane Butel really, really shouldn't be on TV - looks like she's always pissed at someone.
-Rick Bayless - I'm sure he knows his stuff but he sounds like Peter Lorre teaching spanish.

Jane Butel. What is that stuff? Who can't do that? Why is she showing us that she can do it too?

Rick Bayless is great. I love his body of work. A great contribution. But his voice seems to go to a higher pitch with each episode. I can't watch him anymore.

[Jinmyo]

tommy, on Aug 23 2003, 09:59 AM, said:

dmk7, on Aug 23 2003, 09:52 AM, said:

I like Tony Bourdain and Alton Brown a lot.  As much as I like Bourdain, I don't see what he meant about Alton Brown's "holier than thou" speech.  I don't get A&E, but I saw part of Alton's acceptance speech on the internet (http://www.jamesbeard.org/awards/awards.php?year=2003) and it wasn't that bad.  It was sort of self-deprecating, actually.  Alton Brown may have just been surprised by being greeted by Tony Bourdain and not known how to respond that quickly and Bourdain just misunderstood.  I think I'm being objective in saying this, having done the same thing myself many times - I was a completely socially inept dork for much of my life.   I really find it hard to believe that he's a jerk - I've read MANY nice things from the people who have gone to his book signings.  He'll sign anything, take pictures, and stay until the last person leaves.  (Or the store kicks him out, I guess.)

welcome to egullet, alton.

Heh.

I think Bourdain just mistook Brown's geeky dorkosity for a snub. Alton prolly just bugged his eyes out and set his jaw while think, "Oh no. It's Anthony Bourdain. Jeez, he looks like a mean guy. I better get outta here."

[FoodZealot]

Nick, on Aug 22 2003, 06:52 PM, said:

FoodZealot, on Aug 22 2003, 09:22 PM, said:

Side note:  I was lucky enough to attend the Aspen F&W Classic this year, ....

I kept looking at the ads before it happened thinking it might be worth going to. But, having little money and not liking to travel more than a couple of hundred miles for something unless it's extraordinary, I didn't.

Maybe start a thread that reviews your impressions (and maybe others that went will chime in) for those of us that didn't make it.

Thanks for the suggestion, Nick. Will do.

fifi - thank you. I was kinda surprised by that reaction as well - more in that new thread.

~Tad

[erraticninja]

Jinmyo, on Aug 23 2003, 09:22 AM, said:

I think Bourdain just mistook Brown's geeky dorkosity for a snub. Alton prolly just bugged his eyes out and set his jaw while think, "Oh no. It's Anthony Bourdain. Jeez, he looks like a mean guy. I better get outta here."

I can see that. I see tony as a cool kid, leather jacket smoking behind the gym wheras alton is more of a chess club type of guy. in this situation i can totally see alton being intimidated by tony esp. if alton has see a cooks tour.


as far as rick bayless i had forgotten about him. i like his passion, and some of the food and knowledge he exhibits is awsome but damn the entertainment factor is nil. the man is unwatchable. i want to read some of his books hopefully those are better. i feel the same way about mario and ming. i like their philosophy but can't watch them.

[fifi]

erraticninja, on Aug 23 2003, 12:21 PM, said:

as far as rick bayless i had forgotten about him. i like his passion, and some of the food and knowledge he exhibits is awsome but damn the entertainment factor is nil. the man is unwatchable. i want to read some of his books hopefully those are better. i feel the same way about mario and ming. i like their philosophy but can't watch them.

I am into Mexican cuisine and Bayless is one of the best. I put him right up there with Zarela Martinez and Diana Kennedy. I agree that he is hard to watch but I still do because I am so interested in what he has to say.

I really enjoy his books. I recommend them. He includes a lot of helpful background information. I also like the way he offers alternatives and other approaches to a recipe. That is how Mexican cooking is really done.

[theminx]

Toliver, on Aug 22 2003, 03:59 PM, said:

-Bobby Flay and Jacqui Malouf...though I understand he's ditched poor Jacqui...who is now forced to watch their past relationship over & over again on the FN.  She's found her hell and it's the FoodNetwork.

I'm sorry, but Bobby is nuthin' without Jacqui. In the original Hot Off the Grill, she did all the talking and most of the prep work, while Bobby stayed in the background, flipping whatever it was he had on the grill. When they changed formats and ol' Bob got all buff and lost his little man-titties and took center stage, supported by assorted mafioso-type food purveyors like "Joey the Fish," I stopped watching. He just doesn't have enough personality to go it on his own; witness the dull Boy Meets Grill.

Granted, he did do a good job when he substitute-hosted for Sarah Moulton on Cooking Live Prime Time. He seems to be better on-camera when he's not scripted.

That said, here are my favorites, in random order:
Bourdain
David Rosengarten
Alton Brown
Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall (had a short-lived series on Food TV back in 1999 called TV Dinners and I was sorry to see it go)
the Two Fat Ladies (hubby and I dressed as them one Halloween!)
Jacques Torres (swoon)

un-favorites:
Aaron Sanchez (can't watch Melting Pot at all, in case he's on)
Rachael Ray (gag)
Sarah Moulton
Justin Wilson

[seawakim]

Favorites include:
Alton Brown
Jacques Torres
Mario Batali


undecided:
Emeril (the guy is growing on me)
Martha Stewart (the jury is still out on this one)

un- Favorites:
The Naked Chef
The Barefoot Contessa
(I'm beginning to see a pattern here....maybe these people should just keep their clothes on)

[Suzy]

From my interaction with Alton, (small ones on a discussion forum) he seemed like a nice guy.

My favorites:
Alton
Julia
Two Fat Ladies


I can't stand Emeril or Bobby Flay and (don't shoot me for this) don't particularly like Mario Batali. His attitude annoys me, I don't care what he knows about food.

[beans]

Faves:

• Bourdain (duh)
  
  
• St. Jacques (given)
  
  
• St. Julia (ditto)
  
  
• Jacques Torres
  
  
• Caprial Pence
  
  
• Bob Blummer (for the silliness)
  
  
• Mario Batali
  
  
• Alton
  
  
• Two Fat Ladies
  
  
• Todd English
  
  
• Ducasse, Malgieri, Desaulniers, Keller, Trotter (they're celebs, no?)

Lukewarm:

• Emeril
  
  
• Ming
  
  
• Bobby Flay
  
  
• Rick Bayless -- respect his passion and knowledge, just couldn't stand his personality on an old Martha Stewart featured segment.
  
  
• Wolfgang Puck
  
  
• Jeff Smith
  
  
• Sara Moulton

Neutral:

• Ina/Barefoot Contessa
  
  
• Giada
  
  
• Tyler Florence
  
  
• Martin Yan
  
  
• Jamie Oliver

Dislikes:

• Paula Dean
  
  
• Rachael Ray
  
  
• Martha Stewart

This post has been edited by beans: 23 August 2003 - 08:15 PM

[Toliver]

FoodZealot, on Aug 22 2003, 05:22 PM, said:

Tyler Florence - seems to know his stuff, but Ultimate recipes don't seem like they'd be better than the originals

His "Ultimate Beef Stew" is incredibly good....though I would add more veggies. And his "Death Defying Shrimp with Tasso Ham and Crab", while not an "ultimate" recipe, is a real crowd pleaser whenever I've made it. I would never kick him out of my kitchen or off my TV.

fifi, on Aug 22 2003, 05:36 PM, said:

It still doesn't explain all of those inane "unwrapped" shows, though.

The "here's how the corn gets from the field to your table" films they used to show in my grade school fascinated me so I don't mind the "Unwrapped" shows. I always enjoy seeing how my Zagnut was made.

Unmentioned FAVE since it doesn't involve a celebrity chef and I couldn't care less about the host, Tori Ritchie, but I love the premise:
"Ultimate Kitchens" on Food Network
Showing me things I will never ever have in my kitchen but I still love watching every minute of it.
There was an episode showing a kitchen with a built-in wok surrounded by a water moat (to flush away anything that fell out of the wok while stir frying) just made me want to cry happy tears. Who thinks of these things?

[SanFran88]

Love:
Jacques (and Claudia doesn't bother me)
Julia (in every incarnation)
Tyler
Mario
Sara Moulton (it takes a cold, cold heart not to love Sara. She brings on chefs. She'd watch your kids. She'd bring you chicken soup. She's the warm, caring older sister I always wanted)

Irritated by:
The America's Test Kitchen Crew (I watch and I read, but they can come off like they've just discovered Cold Fusion and the recipes often turn out kind of soulless)
Emeril (too much)
Bobby Flay (too cocky too soon)
Rachael Ray (she's the pain-in-the-ass, annoying kid sister I never wanted)
Graham Kerr (sober)

Miss:
Two Hot Tamales
Two Fat Ladies
David Rosengarten

Tony

[pattimw]

FoodZealot, on Aug 22 2003, 06:22 PM, said:

[b]My $0.02:

Donna Dooher-Cookworks on FoodTV -condescending

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that! I like the premise of the show, but that woman.......

[timothycdavis]

Speaking of food shows, has anyone seen the trailer or promo cassette for the new "Home Plate" show on Turner South? What's up with that show?

Evidently, the premise is as follows:

Home Plate
Love fried catfish, hush puppies, and hash browns but hate the health risks? Chef Marvin Woods offers you down home dining with a healthy twist during this new Turner South Original Show.

First of all, who'd want to eat that?

Secondly, on the tape they sent me, my man was making lemon chicken over Ramen noodles (really!)

Is this southern college cuisine, perhaps? At what segment of the South is this aimed? In the name of John Egerton, I hereby protest.

[FoodMan]

dmk7, on Aug 23 2003, 06:52 AM, said:

It seems to be universally agreed - Bobby Flay is irritating.  Very.  Amanda Hesser mentioned him in one "Food Diary" column, where she talks briefly about the "smirk" on his face.  I can see that quite clearly.

I like Tony Bourdain and Alton Brown a lot.  As much as I like Bourdain, I don't see what he meant about Alton Brown's "holier than thou" speech.  I don't get A&E, but I saw part of Alton's acceptance speech on the internet (http://www.jamesbeard.org/awards/awards.php?year=2003) and it wasn't that bad.  It was sort of self-deprecating, actually.  Alton Brown may have just been surprised by being greeted by Tony Bourdain and not known how to respond that quickly and Bourdain just misunderstood.  I think I'm being objective in saying this, having done the same thing myself many times - I was a completely socially inept dork for much of my life.    I really find it hard to believe that he's a jerk - I've read MANY nice things from the people who have gone to his book signings.  He'll sign anything, take pictures, and stay until the last person leaves.  (Or the store kicks him out, I guess.)

Bourdain actually said Alton was "Brainier than thou"

I heard similar things about Alton's personality. I really believe it was a misunderstanding between them two and Bourdain has a knack of making anyone seem like an a-hole.


FM

[badthings]

fifi, on Aug 22 2003, 05:36 PM, said:

FoodZealot, on Aug 22 2003, 07:22 PM, said:

Side note:  I was lucky enough to attend the Aspen F&W Classic this year, and it became clear that the majority of foodies who had the means/interest to attend such an event want entertainment first, expertise second.

You just hit on the reason some of the programming is what it is. The audience here is NOT like the rest of the world.... It still doesn't explain all of those inane "unwrapped" shows, though.

Doesn't the whole celebrity-centric approach just miss the point? I mean, if you care about the food, who gives a shit who's making it? Bayless is a perfect example -- the man's a genius, but he talks like a dork. Who cares?

I think the reason people's food gets wrapped up with their personalities in this facile way is that certain people (Bayless, David, Child, Steingarten) become, if not Gods, at least apostles. Elizabeth David personally brought the south wind to our kitchen -- so she must be an incredible, emulatable person.

Sorry. She's just a good cook. And a good writer. Her personality is no more relevant than J.Lo's, unless you hang out with her.

Edit: That said, Emeril's schtick is particularly grating. More to the point, the food looks terrible, as everyone's other favorite person, Amanda Hesser pointed out recently.

This post has been edited by badthings: 25 August 2003 - 03:39 PM

[claire797]

dmk7, on Aug 23 2003, 06:52 AM, said:

Alton Brown may have just been surprised by being greeted by Tony Bourdain and not known how to respond that quickly and Bourdain just misunderstood.  I think I'm being objective in saying this, having done the same thing myself many times - I was a completely socially inept dork for much of my life.    I really find it hard to believe that he's a jerk - I've read MANY nice things from the people who have gone to his book signings.  He'll sign anything, take pictures, and stay until the last person leaves.  (Or the store kicks him out, I guess.)

My memory is kind of hazy, but I vaguely remember Tony telling us that the whole Alton Brown thing was just a misunderstanding and that Alton sent him a dozen long stem roses and they're best friends now. Or something.

[hjshorter]

badthings, on Aug 25 2003, 06:35 PM, said:

Doesn't the whole celebrity-centric approach just miss the point? I mean, if you care about the food, who gives a shit who's making it? Bayless is a perfect example -- the man's a genius, but he talks like a dork. Who cares?

Am I the only one who really likes Bayless? He doesn't bother me at all, and I dig the pukka shell necklace he wears sometimes. He comes off as sincere, and he knows his stuff.

[bourdain]

Indeed: I got a very nice communication from Alton--via an interested and trusted third party--and my pique over an imagined snub quickly evaporated. For the record: I always thought the show was pretty decent--and filled with useful and even enlightening information.

[ronnie_suburban]

bourdain, on Aug 25 2003, 08:14 PM, said:

Indeed: I got a very nice communication from Alton--via an interested and trusted third party--and my pique over an imagined snub quickly evaporated. For the record: I always thought the show was pretty decent--and filled with useful and even enlightening information.

Thanks for the update Tony...I can now abdicate my title of rumor-monger (and maybe even watch Good Eats again)...

=R=

[guajolote]

hjshorter, on Aug 25 2003, 07:27 PM, said:

badthings, on Aug 25 2003, 06:35 PM, said:

Doesn't the whole celebrity-centric approach just miss the point? I mean, if you care about the food, who gives a shit who's making it? Bayless is a perfect example -- the man's a genius, but he talks like a dork. Who cares?

Am I the only one who really likes Bayless? He doesn't bother me at all, and I dig the pukka shell necklace he wears sometimes. He comes off as sincere, and he knows his stuff.

I've talked to him at length in person (sat next to him on a flight to Oaxaca in '94) and he is nothing like the cheeseball personality he has on TV. I've also heard rumors that he's had plastic surgery (look at his picture in the first cookbook).

[madziast]

tommy, on Aug 22 2003, 01:47 PM, said:

i don't think i've ever seen a more dorky personality than Rachel Ray.  first of all, anyone who giggles at their own inane "jokes" should be tarred and feathered.

ha ha ha, i couldn't agree more and thus i will start with those i don't particularly enjoy--that would be about a legion , pretty much anyone you find on tv. i find most shows offensively, fist-eatingly boring and therefore do not watch most of them. i will watch a new or newish show but usually they are so dissapointing. food network be damned! can't watch emeril , mario (although early episodes when he burns stuff in saute pans can be entertaining), jacques pepin and claudine (how many years in this country and still barely understandable? i do prefer him on his own or with julia), bobby flay (annoying and smug), wolf puck (brilliant individual, extremely uncomfortable tv show host, paiful to watch), rachel ray (see the quote), todd english (so stiff!), barefoot contessa (dead wood, boooring), the FN "best of" hosts: mark silverstein and jill sb (although i'll take mark over jill). oh, and "cucina amore" host, rock moonen (plagiarist), sara moulton (way too sweet and monotone), charlie palmer with his kids (must be the kids), john villa (for the playgirl spread--everyhting is for sale mentality; sadly, it didn't save pico), grimes (he does NOT enjoy his job), and rocco on his show (although it's an edited and manipulated rocco but he should know better).

i love nigella, the two fat ladies (when there were two), david rosengarten and arthur schwartz (nyc radio) ON A GOOD DAY (great knowledge of food but both can be moody), jeffrey steingarten, julia, tony bourdain,alton brown-- basically anyone who's got a great knowledge and passion for food, sense of humor, unwillingness to compromise on quality but still laid back and having fun in the kitchen, is irreverent and does not take him/herself too seriously. obsessed is good! on second thoughts, i prefer writers to tv personalities (not much of a tv fan in general). and radio over tv. i like a lot of ruth reichl's writing (but not the reviews) and that of elizabeth david, mfk fisher and james beard. jeffrey steingarten. piero selvaggio of valentino in la, although he's not a celebrity. he's a wonderful host and has an amazing knowledge of wine and food. jose andres for his incredible enthusiasm for food, throughout history. tetsuya wakuda for doing his own thing and walking away from money when it meant he wouldn't be able to control the food.

pure entertainment but only at times: gordon elliott (murdochian take on food on tv--evil but entertaining in that aussie tabloid way, the guts!), certain martha shows--for the wrong reasons: how she intimidated her guests and flirted with others

[fifi]

guajolote, on Aug 25 2003, 07:49 PM, said:

x

hjshorter, on Aug 25 2003, 07:27 PM, said:

badthings, on Aug 25 2003, 06:35 PM, said:

Doesn't the whole celebrity-centric approach just miss the point? I mean, if you care about the food, who gives a shit who's making it? Bayless is a perfect example -- the man's a genius, but he talks like a dork. Who cares?

Am I the only one who really likes Bayless? He doesn't bother me at all, and I dig the pukka shell necklace he wears sometimes. He comes off as sincere, and he knows his stuff.

I've talked to him at length in person (sat next to him on a flight to Oaxaca in '94) and he is nothing like the cheeseball personality he has on TV. I've also heard rumors that he's had plastic surgery (look at his picture in the first cookbook).

OK... I just don't get it. My dork detector is pretty sensitive and I have never put Bayless in that category. Maybe I am missing something or I am just too dazzled by his skill and knowledge of my favorite cuisine.

g - I hate you. Did you follow him around when you got to Oaxaca? I would hope that if I had had that opportunity that I wouldn't have become the same annoying talking-person that I hate sitting next to on airplanes.

Plastic surgery? WHY??? I gotta dig out my books.

[FoodZealot]

hjshorter, on Aug 25 2003, 05:27 PM, said:

badthings, on Aug 25 2003, 06:35 PM, said:

Doesn't the whole celebrity-centric approach just miss the point? I mean, if you care about the food, who gives a shit who's making it? Bayless is a perfect example -- the man's a genius, but he talks like a dork. Who cares?

Am I the only one who really likes Bayless? He doesn't bother me at all, and I dig the pukka shell necklace he wears sometimes. He comes off as sincere, and he knows his stuff.

I agree, I think Rick Bayless is great. I watch every show and glean as much as I can, often taking notes here and there. Clearly has the love that sometimes only a foreigner can have for a country. With comprehensive knowledge to back it up. Still, the mannerisms sometimes get to me. So in that sense, I care. Maybe that makes me shallow, but the host is still presenting the information, and I have to receive it. For myself, I was just trying to make snarky distinctions between my various preferences.

Even if it's not reality, people react to TV personas almost as if they are meeting and interacting with the host in person. I'll have to go read those media books mentioned to better understand it. [grin]

Also, in my opinion, food is very personal. I don't like to feed people I don't like, and I'm sure there are people that don't or wouldn't like to feed me. Conversely, I love the food that my friends make for me. Sure, a dish can be appreciated in a vacuum - say you walk into a restaurant without knowing anything about the chef, etc. But if you know that the something about him/her, like spending years to learn authentic cuisine, traveling, immersing himself/herself, it changes your associations with it, and your perception of it. It becomes more personal.

BTW, forgot to mention that I think Chris Schlessinger (East Coast Grill rest., Thrill of the Grill) is another favorite, really brilliant, even if a bit dry on TV.

~Tad

[guajolote]

fifi, on Aug 25 2003, 09:01 PM, said:

guajolote, on Aug 25 2003, 07:49 PM, said:

x

hjshorter, on Aug 25 2003, 07:27 PM, said:

badthings, on Aug 25 2003, 06:35 PM, said:

Doesn't the whole celebrity-centric approach just miss the point? I mean, if you care about the food, who gives a shit who's making it? Bayless is a perfect example -- the man's a genius, but he talks like a dork. Who cares?

Am I the only one who really likes Bayless? He doesn't bother me at all, and I dig the pukka shell necklace he wears sometimes. He comes off as sincere, and he knows his stuff.

I've talked to him at length in person (sat next to him on a flight to Oaxaca in '94) and he is nothing like the cheeseball personality he has on TV. I've also heard rumors that he's had plastic surgery (look at his picture in the first cookbook).

OK... I just don't get it. My dork detector is pretty sensitive and I have never put Bayless in that category. Maybe I am missing something or I am just too dazzled by his skill and knowledge of my favorite cuisine.

g - I hate you. Did you follow him around when you got to Oaxaca? I would hope that if I had had that opportunity that I wouldn't have become the same annoying talking-person that I hate sitting next to on airplanes.

Plastic surgery? WHY??? I gotta dig out my books.

I was just trying to say that his "real" personality and his "TV" personality are much different. I would love to see some of his old PBS shows to see if I'm right. I think he went through lots of media coaching before his new show started. I was scared to death to talk to him, my wife had to start the conversation. I always compare it to a basketball fan who becomes speechless when he sees Michael Jordan.

Oaxaca is a very small city, we saw him almost every day. He gave us some great restaurant and market recommendations on the plane