[Kim WB]

Hi...I did a search, I hope I am not beign repetative.

Different recipes call for such variation in preparing this stock. Madhur Jaffrey lets the konbu reach a boil, then turns it off. Other recipes call for it to not boil, the bonito to sink..add cold water with bonito, simmer....some add carrots???


I'd appreciate the definitive word on the best preperation..to be honest, my miso soup tastes pretty darn good, but if I'm going to make it, I'd like it to be the best that I can make it.

Thanks in advance,

[margaret]

This is how I make ichiban-dashi:

Wipe konbu clean. Add to pot of cold water. Set on medium heat. Just before it reaches a boil, remove konbu.
Then add the katsuo bushi (bonito flakes). When it comes to a boil, turn the heat down and simmer a couple of minutes before turning the heat off.
When all the bonito flakes have sunk to the bottom, strain the dashi.

If you allow the konbu to boil, it'll get all slimy and nasty.

I have no idea about the carrots - what??

[torakris]

margaret, on May 30 2003, 12:43 AM, said:

This is how I make ichiban-dashi:

Wipe konbu clean. Add to pot of cold water. Set on medium heat. Just before it reaches a boil, remove konbu.
Then add the katsuo bushi (bonito flakes). When it comes to a boil, turn the heat down and simmer a couple of minutes before turning the heat off.
When all the bonito flakes have sunk to the bottom, strain the dashi.

If you allow the konbu to boil, it'll get all slimy and nasty.

I have no idea about the carrots - what??

I make it exactly as Magaret does!
I believe this is the most common way, the konbu should never be boiled!
You want to bring it to a boil slowly though, so that the konbu has enoough time to release its flavor, so set it over a lowish heat. The katsuo flakes can be boiled for just second ady more then that and they will become to strong and bitter.


carrots?

[Jinmyo]

Carrots? Disgusting as dashi, could be okay for something else.

Never boil. A few bubbles at most.

For making osuimono or miso shiru I use great quantities of kombu and bonito and heat on low for a few hours. (I have time.) Crystal clear, deeply flavourful and subtle.


Then I freeze the kombu for use in a Chinese or Korean style soup.

[smallworld]

Quote

Then I freeze the kombu for use in a Chinese or Korean style soup.

Tell us about these soups!

I try to recycle the kombu, but there is only so much tsukudani one can eat! I would love to learn more ways to recycle- anyone have ideas?

[Texan]

you can stew the kombu the Chinese way, in soysauce, rice wine, garlic, ginger slices, green onion, star anise and suger for about 30 minutes or longer for more tenderness. Take the kombu out of the sauce, slice and serve. It's even better if stewed with pork or chicken. I have also used plum wine (don't add suger) and it's quite good.

[torakris]

Texan
welcome to egullet
sounds good!

[inventolux]

Take bonito, konbu, shoyu, a sliver of daikon, 2-4 inch pieces of dried sugar cane and miso to barely taste and put it all submerged in cold water over a double boiler or in a cryovac bag(preferred). Heat (it wont boil) for 4 hours and strain. Its not a classical dashi but who cares, its like dashi on speed.

[torakris]

smallworld, on May 30 2003, 11:38 AM, said:

I try to recycle the kombu, but there is only so much tsukudani one can eat! I would love to learn more ways to recycle- anyone have ideas?

I just saw a package of konbu squares that were packed in miso, the pack mentioned the addition of soy sauce as well. It says to wipe the miso off before eating, sort of a konbu miso-zuke? Probably do-able at home.

[smallworld]

Thanks Texan, Inventolux and Kristin for the tips!
The whole idea of recycling kitchen stuff is really interesting to me. Might make a good thread (in the general food section?)!

[torakris]

guide to dashi ingredients and dashi making (good pictures):

http://www.ajinomoto...ashi/index.html

[torakris]

from the nihongo thread:

QUOTE (smallworld @ Jun 25 2003, 11:01 AM)
When you make niboshi dashi do you bother to snap off all their little heads? It seems like such a pain in the butt so I've never made it. It's supposed to be the proper dashi for soba, yet I've always found that, at least at home, katsuo dashi is just fine. But I'd make it if I didn't have to do all the head-snapping.

Another question- I have a cookbook with a dashi recipe that calls for 'frigate mackerel flakes'. It's one of those annoying textbooks that has doesn't always give Japanese names, but I checked elsewhere and found out frigate mackerel is 'hirasouda'. Never seen it, never heard of it.
Any idea what it is and where to find it? Is it necessary?

the heads are normally snapped off so not to make the stock bitter.

here are some dashi making guides:

http://www.bob-an.co...ashi/dashi.html

I have never heard or hirasouda or frigate mackeral flakes..... huh.gif

[torakris]

I was told that they make the stock bitter, but I wonder if that is one of those things passed down generation to generation with out any one questioning it.

Since I have never made niboshi dashi, I probably shouldn't be commenting....

[smallworld]

torakris, on Jun 25 2003, 02:59 PM, said:

I was told that they make the stock bitter, but I wonder if that is one of those things passed down generation to generation with out any one questioning it.

Since I have never made niboshi dashi, I probably shouldn't be commenting....  

Looks like I've got a project!
Will make niboshi dashi twice, once complete with heads and guts, once without. Will taste, get husband to taste, and report back.

[torakris]

I jsut stepped out side to quiz 5 neighbors who are outside talking, here is what they said.

It depends on the size of the niboshi, the bigger ones they always remove the heads and innards, but the smallers ones they keep intact and most of the women actually keep them in the soup and they are eaten along with the other things in the soup.
I think it is time to start making my own dashi....

[Jason Perlow]

I notice there seems to be a whole bunch of different kind of Dashis.

Ichiban Dashi I understand, as its the first brew of the bonito and the konbu. The Niban Dashi I understand is the second brew.

But WHEN do you use a first brew as opposed to a second brew dashi? For what dishes?

And for what dishes do you use pure konbu dashi or niboshi dashi? Are these things interchangeable at all?

[torakris]

ichiban dashi (first stock)produces a very clear and mild flavored broth that is used for suimono (clear soups) the type served at the beginning of the meal with just a couple things floating decoratively in the bowl.

nibandashi (second stock) is stronger flavored and is used more for miso soups, and general cooking uses like noodle broths, stock for vegetable preparations, etc.

niboshi dashi (sardine stock) is the strongest flavored and is used mostly for rich, thick miso soups and some stronger flavored noodle dishes.

konbu dashi (kelp stock) I don't see used too much, it is usually called for as a flavoring for rice dishes.


These are the general use as them and have seen them being used, but it can vary by region and even more by household.

[Jason Perlow]

So definitely something like Goma Ae would use ichiban dashi? What about other salad type appetizers? Sumono? Aemono (Nihaizu, Sanbaizu, etc)?

[torakris]

Jason Perlow, on Dec 10 2003, 08:44 AM, said:

So definitely something like Goma Ae would use ichiban dashi? What about other salad type appetizers? Sumono? Aemono (Nihaizu, Sanbaizu, etc)?

This would really depend on who is doing the cooking!
I would use niban for all of the above but I also prefer the koi (strong) flavors that are popular in the Kanto (Tokyo and surrounds) area, but someone from the Kansai area (Osaka, kyoto and surrounds) would probably use ichiban.

The only case where I would use ichiban outside of clear soups would be in chawan mushi.

[helenjp]

My rule of thumb is that if I can see the dashi in the finished dish, it needs to be ichiban dashi or konbu dashi.

If the dish is simmered or dressed in a dashi-based mix, then a niban dashi will do.

I lived in Osaka/Kyoto when I first came to Japan, and used konbu-dashi quite often. Didn't use niboshi-dashi until I came to the Tokyo area -- I believe katsuo dashi is used more in summer and niboshi in winter; katsuo for udon soups, niboshi for soba soups.

Some aemono are made with konbu-dashi in Kyoto and with katsuo/konnbu dashi in Tokyo. Also, konbu dashi is used in temple cooking and by extension, for very formal funerals and often for New Year's dishes instead of katsuo/konbu dashi.

I used konbu-dashi for nabe in Osaka, but more likely katsuo/konbu dashi in Tokyo.

Konbu-dashi tends to sour quickly, one reason why it is not used so often at home. Some people leave a few pieces of konbu in a jar of sake, so that they can have the konbu flavor ready at hand without worrying about spoilage.

[Jinmyo]

I almost exclusively use ichiban dashi.

Nibandashi I use for Chinese or Korean style soups.

[helenjp]

to get back to specifics...

I use konbu-dashi in sunomono, a hang-over from my Osaka days.

[EdS]

Is there any reason that dashi should not be made in batches and then frozen? Will it keep for long? I am thinking that the quality would be higher than dashi no moto (instant dashi). I know I should just try this but would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

[helenjp]

Freezer space is always small in Japan, so most people don't freeze bulky items - no reason why not, though. I think freezing dashi sometimes causes it to go cloudy, but in most cases that isn't a problem.

[EdS]

Thanks for the links and info. There doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus. James Peterson's Sauces says that dashi will keep in the fridge for two weeks or it can be frozen indefinitely. Yet in a different part of the book he says that fish stocks should be used immediately.

I'm beginning to think that freezing dashi is just plain weird and I should drop this idea.

OK, the next time I make some dashi, I'll try to remember to freeze some of it and try it out a month later, comparing with fresh dashi, and report back here.

[torakris]

two weeks for refrigerated dashi seems quite long, most recipes I have seen say only 2 to 3 days...

[helenjp]

Sure that's not a misprint for "two days"? Unseasoned Kombu and kombu dashi tend to spoil very fast.

[EdS]

torakris, on Sep 5 2004, 02:23 PM, said:

two weeks for refrigerated dashi seems quite long, most recipes I have seen say only 2 to 3 days...

I just double-checked my book, thinking I made a typo, and it really does say two weeks. I totally agree with you. This must be an error, unless this is a recipe for fermented dashi! I wouldn't even use chicken stock after several days unless it was either frozen or boiled, and I wouldn't even be happy with doing the latter.

BTW, I just returned from the Japanese grocery store. I bought some Pocky for the first time. I've already eaten two boxes in 30 minutes. Someone save me from this.

[Hiroyuki]

torakris, on Jun 26 2003, 04:20 PM, said:

but the smallers ones they keep intact and most of the women actually keep them in the soup and they are eaten along with the other things in the soup.

This is exactly how my mother used to make miso soup. I guess my mother ate most of them.

[Hiroyuki]

Has anyone tried ago dashi before? Ago is a local name for tobi uo (flying fish). Ago dashi is made from dried ago like these:
http://www.rakuten.c...-manten/479658/

Last year, I bought a bottle of ago dashi men tsuyu (noodle soup) for the first time. It was MSG-free. But when I tasted it, I didn't find it particularly good. I think I had been too accustomed to the acute taste of instant dashi to enjoy the subtle taste of ago dashi.

I have tried to lead an MSG-free life several times in the past, but to no avail.