[Mussina]

I am looking to create a sublime burger but not being much of a red meat eater I could use some advice. I am starting with some American Wagyu chuck beef.

I ground some last night (courser grind), added a little salt and pepper and grilled it up. Nothing special.

Any suggestions for creating the perfect burger? Perferred grind? What, if anything, should I add? Someone recommended cornstarch - should I dredge the burger in the cornstarch or add it to the meat.

Could it be that the Kobe beef is the culprit? Does anyone add soy sauce or the like to their meat?

Thanks in advance!!

[Toliver]

Some previous discussions that may help:

Here's a question posted to Evan Lobel with more links in Jason's post- "Hamburgers, what's the best mix?"

"making your own hamburger meat, talk to me"

"Hamburgers, and kosher meat"

"Burgers/Meatloaf--Cook-Off X, eGullet Recipe Cook-Off Series"

And in regards to cooking it:
"How to cook a burger at home."

And what to put on it:
"What's on the perfect burger?"

"What's on *your* burger?, The results are in..."

And how do you go about serving the best burger in a restaurant?
"Burger helper, First Class Burger"

This post has been edited by Toliver: 27 April 2007 - 08:29 AM

[Baggy]

Being a simple cook my approach has been to make sure that the burger is properly seared on the outside, but rested for long enough to be moist and tender. A brief blast on a hot griddle to give some external colour and then a gentle warming through to rare (52C) is all that’s required. Just make sure the burger is thick enough to sear without cooking the centre.

This is a sure fire way to get a perfect burger. Unfortunately, the starting point is excellent, tasty meat.

Most recommend a fat content of around 25-30% for burgers (a bit high for me if they aren’t going to be grilled/BBQ’d); and nothing else should be added - no salt, pepper, onions or anything. Wagyu beef should have a good fat content, but not all Wagyu-style beef is the same (after all it’s got to be hung correctly to bring out the flavours). Additionally, Wagyu beef seems to have bit of a reputation for going tough if it’s not cooked absolutely perfectly.

Maybe a few tries with 28-day hung (not wet matured) ground rib-eye with different grind size and pan/oven temperatures would remove some of the uncertainties before shelling out on more Wagyu. At GBP 99/kg (US$ 100/lb) for rib eye, I’ve been working (randomly) towards my Wagyu experience for the last 2 years, so perhaps I don’t feel in a hurry to be disappointed yet.

[Mussina]

Thanks for the input - just did a hamburger cookoff.

Tried 100% Kobe (chuck) ground 1x and 2x; 2:1 Kobe to Hanger steak ground 1x and 2x; 100% hanger; and 1:1 Kobe to Hanger ground 1x and 2x.

The winner was the 2:1 Kobe to Hanger ground 1x. The pure Kobe was too flabby tasting and lacked that distinct steak flavor. The 100% hanger lacked some succulence. The 2x ground was tougher for some reason. The cornstarch made for a nice crust but there was a bit of an aftertaste.

Thanks again all!

[Baggy]

I’m impressed that you can find hanger steak – it has a wonderful meaty taste and may well compensate if you have to use a better cut that has been poorly hung.

Not sure why cornstarch should give an aftertaste, but leaving out unnecessary ingredients sounds good to me.

[Mussina]

Quote

Not sure why cornstarch should give an aftertaste, but leaving out unnecessary ingredients sounds good to me.

Funny you say that - I might have been imagining it because I wasn't all that keen on using it. Happier to go with the pure cow.

[Peter Green]

Mussina, on Apr 27 2007, 08:44 PM, said:

Quote

Not sure why cornstarch should give an aftertaste, but leaving out unnecessary ingredients sounds good to me.

Funny you say that - I might have been imagining it because I wasn't all that keen on using it. Happier to go with the pure cow.

We'd been discussing the cornstarch thing in another thread.

Chinese cooking beliefs (okay, my cooking instructor in Chengdu and another person's grandmother) hold that using bean or corn starch makes the meat more tender.

[Joe Blowe]

Peter Green, on Apr 27 2007, 11:12 AM, said:

We'd been discussing the cornstarch thing in another thread. 

Chinese cooking beliefs (okay, my cooking instructor in Chengdu and another person's grandmother) hold that using bean or corn starch makes the meat more tender.

Without taking the time to look for that thread, are you talking about velveting with cornstarch or tenderizing with baking soda? (Neither of which should ever come near a hamburger )

[Daniel Rogov]

Especially when using Kobe beef, think of the cardinal rule in the making of a fine burger: 20% fat!!!!!!

[chappie]

$100-a-pound beef in a hamburger? What's the point?

If I'm paying that much a pound for a consumable good, it better make me hallucinate. Aren't burgers traditionally a vehicle for meat you otherwise wouldn't want to cook and eat intact?

[Mussina]

chappie, on Apr 27 2007, 03:41 PM, said:

$100-a-pound beef in a hamburger? What's the point?

If I'm paying that much a pound for a consumable good, it better make me hallucinate. Aren't burgers traditionally a vehicle for meat you otherwise wouldn't want to cook and eat intact?

Cheap cuts of American Kobe are just that - cheap. Around $7/pound. Granted it costs more than traditional chuck but nowhere near $100 pound.

[Mussina]

Daniel Rogov, on Apr 27 2007, 03:39 PM, said:

Especially when using Kobe beef, think of the cardinal rule in the making of a fine burger:  20% fat!!!!!!

By this statement, do you mean that Kobe beef is less fatty? Interesting. I always thought it was prized for its near butter like quality and fat marbling.

[chappie]

Sorry... someone above had mentioned the figure of $100/pound.

As for preparation, I disagree with the edict not to salt the meat, though I would do so gently.

[Caitlin]

This WSJ article - "The Best Burger" - has the recipe from Mr. Bartley's Burger Cottage, a great burger place in Harvard Square.

[Blether]

Mussina, on Apr 28 2007, 01:56 AM, said:

Tried 100% Kobe (chuck) ground 1x and 2x; 2:1 Kobe to Hanger steak ground 1x and 2x; 100% hanger; and 1:1 Kobe to Hanger ground 1x and 2x. 

I'm with Chappie on salt: and a very little grated onion makes it for me.

May I ask - when you say '1x' and '2x', do you mean 'once' as in 'one time', and 'twice' ? Or is this some designation of grinder plate (and if not, what is your grind size - my plates are 3/32", 1/8", 3/16" &c) ?

[Mussina]

Blether, on Apr 28 2007, 02:01 AM, said:

Mussina, on Apr 28 2007, 01:56 AM, said:

Tried 100% Kobe (chuck) ground 1x and 2x; 2:1 Kobe to Hanger steak ground 1x and 2x; 100% hanger; and 1:1 Kobe to Hanger ground 1x and 2x. 

I'm with Chappie on salt: and a very little grated onion makes it for me.

May I ask - when you say '1x' and '2x', do you mean 'once' as in 'one time', and 'twice' ? Or is this some designation of grinder plate (and if not, what is your grind size - my plates are 3/32", 1/8", 3/16" &c) ?

I am with you on the salt. By 1x/2x I am referring to the number of times I grinded the meat. I had high hopes for the 2x grind but the texture was less appealing - tougher. As for size of the plate, I have a cheapo kitchen aid attachment grinder and I am using the smaller plate. I can honestly say that I have eaten more beef this week that I have my entire life combined (and now I can't seem to stop -- not a good thing!).

[swieton]

I've always been disturbed by the percentage of fat people quote in burgers. I prefer going a healthier direction and have had fantastic results with using about 30% beef tenderloin and 70% sirloin. Both cut as lean as possible.

This way, you get the excellent flavor of a sirloin with the moisture of the tenderloin. Grind coarsly and add a bit of worchestershire sauce and onion, salt, and pepper. The perfect burger, as far as I'm concerned. Also one of the more expensive ways of making a burger, but it's also closer to 10% fat rather than 30%.

[aschbren]

I assume that by "Kobe beef" you meant wagyu beef?

Unless it's from the Hyogo Prefecture in Japan, I'm sorry but it's not Kobe beef.

[JohnL]

IMOP there is too much obsessing over the source of the meat flavorings and condiments etc. The architecture of the burger is of paramount importance.
All one needs is good quality meat with a reasonable fat content --fat is for flavor as well as jucyness.

First, the grind of the meat is critical. Too many burgers are made with meat that has been ground to such a fine grade that the result is a grainy almost mealy consistency.

Second, handling! Too much fussing and too much pressure packs the meat--pulverizing it, mashing it. A great burger needs air. It should be formed with minimal handling and just loosely enough so it "breathes."

Third, size. IMOP anything over 8 ounces is too damn much meat--too big. Not only too difficult to eat but it won't cook properly! Too get a really good sear or char on the outside and the proper degree of doneness on the inside the size matters!!!
Too many burgers are either lightly seared steak tartar or are dried out mush due to their size.

If one doesn't master the basics of construction then all the rest is moot.

[paulraphael]

My favorite style of burger is my aunt's secret recipe, which i've since learned she stole from a Julia Child book long before I was born.

The basic idea is to mix some raw egg and and finely chopped onion or shallot (very lightly sautéed) in with the ground beef. Other seasonings, like parsley, worcestershire sauce, salt + pepper, can be mixed in too. They can be grilled or broiled.

These burgers are especially moist and flavorful, and hold together nicely. The egg seems to bind them, and add moisture as well as fat.

I think Julia's original recipe is much more specific and involved, but the basic idea can be freely interpreted, and has always gotten great reviews from my friends.

This post has been edited by paulraphael: 30 April 2007 - 07:29 AM

[Corinna Dunne]

That's interesting....
This is very similar to how I make them (my mother's recipe), and I love them this way.

I just use some cheap cuts of beef (no wagyu over here), and use about one egg to 2lbs of meat. The egg doesn't seem obvious in the finished burger, just helps them to bind. I used to add finely chopped onions, but now put them throught the grinder as well, so they are kind of mushed. OK this may not be for purists who like the unadulterated taste of beef, but I like the extra angle. I also add a good glug of tomato ketchup, some Worcester sauce, a few dashes of soy sauce and salt and pepper. I shape them gently with floured hands and they stay very light and open in texture. I'm having them tonight actually!

And key to a really good burger is homemade mayonnaise and if time permits, homemade buns. And handcut chips!!!

[chappie]

I read that WSJ article last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. So much so, that I awoke with a craving for burgers, not satisfied until I drove to a place called Creekside Deli I'd only tried once before and ordered a double bacon cheeseburger and fries.

It put me in a delicious double bacon coma.

[BRM]

When there's time I also think it helps to dry marinate the cubes of beef before you grind them with red onion, diced carrot, salt, pepper and whatever else inspires you.

[zpzjessica]

i love burgers - hamburgers, cheeseburgers, you name it.
i decided to make some killer cheeseburgers last night, using my own recipe that always proves delicious, but was wondering if anybody on the boards had some yummy (and fairly simple) recipes for burgers they enjoy??

[deltadoc]

After 20+ years of trying to make the perfect burger meat combination, the closest I have come is:

1 lb Beef Tenderloin strap (sans silver skin)
1 lb Prime Chuck with lots of marbling and trimmed of gristle, connective tissue, etc.
1 lb Sirloin (desectioned to remove the gristle).

The burgers come out smelling like great burgers while they're frying and the taste is close to the best I ate as a kid in the 1950's-1960's. And best of all there are no crunchy "bits" in the patty!

doc

[tim]

Hi,

I really like the incomparable flavor of beef brisket. It seems to work better in a processor than in a grinder. I also prefer to find a cut with the fat cap, which I freeze and process in advance of the meat. If you have lean cut you have to be careful not to cook beyond medium rare.

Tim

[SundaySous]

"taste is close to the best I ate as a kid in the 1950's-1960's."

Have to agree, we just don't have the same beef we had then.

I'm more from the 70's. You could literally tell where your steak was raised by taste. Now most are born in Argentina and fattened here in the US.

They all get the same "scientific diet" so they all pretty much taste the same.

I shall have to cosult me butcher and see what he wants to charge for aged chuck. Three weeks seemed to be the magic number and I'll bet it comes to $8 a pound when it's all said and done.

Oh look girl friends birthday is in three weeks. I'll let you know how that goes.

[zpzjessica]

my current favorite burger recipe i make is:

1lb ground beef
1 egg
1 tsp ground black pepper
1 tbsp salt
1/2 cup bread crumbs (i like the plain breadcrumbs but you could use italian style for a little extra oomph if you want)

in one bowl, whisk the egg, pepper, and salt together
in another bowl, mix the ground beef and breadcrumbs
then combine both bowls
shape into burger of any size you want (i usually make them large enough so that 1lb comes out to about 4 burgers)
i usually find that cooking them 6-8 minutes on each side make the perfect burger!
(i LOVE cheeseburgers so i usually add **gasp** a slice of american cheese after the burger's cooked)

[infernooo]

Quick bump - just a few questions for the resident burger experts :-)

This is in regards to making pure beef burgers (just beef, salt and pepper, nothing else)

1.) Could someone please post a picture of the chuck steak they are using in their burgers before and after trimming please? I assume people are making burgers quite regularly so hopefully this won't be a problem :-).

2.) What cut of chuck is everyone using? (there seem to be different types + shapes... bone in, bone out, roll, shoulder, steaks, chops, etc)

3.) When grinding, does everyone just trim the chuck to remove the silverskin and gristle, but leave in the hard fat? or is everything trimmed just leaving the natural marbling?

4.) What courseness is everyone grinding their meat to? e.g. grinding plate sizes, number of passes through the grinder etc.

5.) After grinding, before grilling/cooking, does everyone mix salt into the meat or just sprinkle it on the outer surface before/during cooking and leave the insides unseasoned?

6.) Does everyone usually just grind once, leaving the meat in that sort of long stringy form? or they break it up before shaping it (I have noticed a lot of people emphasise not playing around with it too much and just gently forming a patty)

7.) Thick or thin patty?

8.) When grilling, what kind of oil does everyone use? Even if you only lightly oil the grill.

9.) Flip just once?

10.) (VERY controversial, yet seen by many experienced burger cooks and cooks in local favourite burger joints) - Press down with spatula? (most often seen on flat plate grills)

11.) Rest before serving or straight onto the bun?
Thanks!

This post has been edited by infernooo: 27 August 2007 - 04:23 PM

[gfweb]

Mu burgers are horribly inconsistent. I use seasoned 80/20 ground chuck. Sometimes they are of a nice consistency and others they swell on the grill and become rounded while cooking and end up tough and dense. What am I doing wrong?