[sethd]

Quote

i don't know really, i don't think it is a concern

was joel robuchon going to be pissed if he didn't get a star at the four seasons?  is he pissed he didn't get two?

my money is on him not caring.  my money is on him caring about the new york times review.

is eleven madison and daniel humm pissed that they still don't have a star?  probably not, although i think it is a joke that they do not have one.  they could probably care less, as they're doing very well.

I definitely agree that Ducasse is concerned with the new york times review. The article in New York Magazine seems to point to that conclusion as well. I also think that his goal is create a a product that the average new yorker (not necessarily the people on this board) will enjoy and appreciate. Knowing Thomas as well, I find his comments regarding customer service to be shocking. He as always been wonderful towards me.
Also, it is fascinating reading on this board people's interpretations of Ducasse's motivations, aspirations, and goals. The restaurant opens for business in 10 days. Lets go eat there ( i have three reservations already) and then we will all have a better idea of what Adour is all about.

[DutchMuse]

Of course Ducasse is concerned about stars, both Michelin and NYTimes. Don't forget--Delouvrier got the axe because of NY Times stars.

Ducasse has cultivated the Michelin group more than about any other chef. Now, he has again a luxury setting (St. Regis) and the same basic team that got them 3 Michelin stars in the past (chef, etc).

The Michelin slight of Eleven Madison was certainly noticed--they certainly cared, and still do.

Not trying to be argumentative--but anyone who asserts that a gastronomic restaurant by chefs such as Ducasse or Humm don't care about Michelin stars, isn't being realistic.

In any event, chefboy is going by job interviews; I'm going by knowledge of the Ducasse organization in France. But we're all speculating. Let's wait and see what happens.

[oakapple]

Page Six has a mini-report — evidently a friends & family affair, with the likes of Gabriel Kreuther and Michael Romano in attendance.

[sethd]

oakapple, on Jan 24 2008, 11:23 AM, said:

Page Six has a mini-report — evidently a friends & family affair, with the likes of Gabriel Kreuther and Michael Romano in attendance.

I am eating at Adour on Sunday night. I will report after the meal.

[sethd]

I had a very enjoyable experience at Adour last night. I was the first dinner: First, I was given a tour of the restaurant. It has a main room and two or three smaller rooms. Large wine fridges line the walls, showcasing the best from the restaurants wine collection.

My dinner started with a small comte in pastry. Very nice. My first course was the hamachi sashimi with geoduck and a green apple mustard. My second course was complimentary: a slow cooked halibut with vegetables. My main course was colorado rack of lamb which was one of the few holdovers from ADNY. A cheese course followed, No cheese trolley as at ADNY. A selection of four pieces which included a vermont cheddar, an italian goat cheese and an italian sheeps milk cheese, and a tommoe de savoie. My desert was the chocolate sorbet. My wines were a rose champagne nv, a half bottle of 95 Cos, and a 1985 Graham's Port.

A note on the wine list. THey present two different lists. One is more of a seasonal list. The second is the reserve list.

Adour has much less pomp and circumstance as compared to ADNY. More americanized in service. The food is also not nearly as complex as at ADNY.

[flinflon28]

Thanks for your report. Given their focus on wine how did you find the price range on the seasonal list?

Looking forward to dinner there on the 5th of Feb.

[oakapple]

flinflon28, on Jan 29 2008, 08:32 AM, said:

Thanks for your report.  Given their focus on wine how did you find the price range on the seasonal list?

Looking forward to dinner there on the 5th of Feb.

I was there last night and had a glass of wine at the bar. (Trivia: I was supposedly the sixth customer; thus I was informed by the fellow who said he was the first.)

Though I took only a cursory look, I was impressed at how reasonable the prices were. For instance, the least expensive red wine by the glass was $9. There are plenty of restaurants in town that offer nothing in single digits.

[flinflon28]

Had dinner her last night and it was a decent experience. We went a la carte rather than tasting menu as most of the interesting options seemed to be on that side.

Our captain was friendly but somewhat hesitant during certain parts of service. Almost felt like the front of house is still deciding on what level of service they are working on delivering for this restaurant concept. Since our reservation was at 6:30 we almost had her undivided attention at the beginning but towards the end when we needed the check she was more or less slammed with two additional tables seated simultaneoulsy that needed incessant attention.

Silverare changes, refills and clearings were done so they weren't noticed at all so I take that to mean that it was done perfectly but I'm not a front of house expert.
Our captain arrived with each course to explain the dishes.

The room itself has a few nooks that are off the main "see and be seen" middle area and it was very entertaining to see some guests begin to freak out if they weren' sitting in that main area. One couple put up enough a fuss that they were being lead to a side nook that they were given the middle table of the restaurant that was obviously meant to be a four top.

Amuse consisted of 4 tiny puff pastries filled with a ricotta like cheese ( I forgot the name). Nothing revolutionary but a fine way to start the meal.

Bread service brought mini baguettes, olive bread and sourdough. I believe they mentioned that the dough is shipped frozen from Paris. The mini baguette was dynamite. Excellent crust and a yeasty interior. Butter was whipped to an airy consistancy and I think was flecked with chunks of olive.


I started with the Sweetbread "Meunière", Egg Purse wild mushrooms, toasted brioche. The sweetbreads were perfectly cooked with a terrific crunch followed by the soft goodness underneath and the poached egg on top took it to a level of richness that I thought was out of this world. Vegetables were cut to diamond like precision and the sauce poured tablside took this dish to another level. The toasted brioche sticks sopped up any remaning sauce leaving an totally clean plate.

My companion started with Tender Ricotta Gnocchi lettuce, prosciutto, xérès vinegar. To me they seemed more like perfectly quenelled gnudo rather than gnocchi. If I'm not mistaken our captian mentioned that there was no potato used in the preparation. They were tasty and well seasoned but also very conventional.
The one truly inspired part of this dish is that the lettuce was either blanced or cooked to a point that it tasted like the essence of lettuce. Never has its taste been more pronounced or delicious to me. It was like having lettuce straight from the garden for the first time in my life. If would almost say you could tast the chlorophyl!

My main dish was the Beef Tenderloin, Braised Ribs contrast of carrots, "jus de cuisson". Unfortunately the tenderloin was so generic to me that it almost felt like convention food. It had been requested rare to medium rare and came out closer to medium which I wasn't particularly distressed about but the flavor just wasn't there...and it was dry. The braised ribs on the other hand were sheer perfection. All of the food porn in the world that shows perfectly carmelized and glazed beef doesn't live up to the image of that meat on a white plate at Adour. Complex in flavor it was a perfect mix of salty, crunchy sweetness and fat.
Sauce was poured tableside and was everything it needed to be. The perfect thicknness, rich and velvety.
The vegetabe accompaniment while miniscule almost upstaged the meat. two or three pieces of potato were once again the essence of that vegetable. Soft to the point that it almost didn't require chewing but not at all mealy or mushy.
It's been said you haven't truly eaten until you've tasted perfect potatoes and I finally think I know what this means.
The carrots were great too. See the lettuce and potato description. There is some serious vegetable cooking currently going on at Adour.

My companion had Adour Lobster Thermidor swiss chard fondant, armagnac. It's served out of the shell and for someone who rarely eats lobster my companion found it to be quite good but it's definitely not something she would order again or switch her over to a crustacean lover.
The bite I was offered revealed some perfectly cooked lobster in a luxurious sauce that almost tasted of the ocean...in a good way.

For dessert I had the cheese plate and thought the selections were terrific. By the time it was delivered our captain was a bit rushed due to the new seatings and all the drama ensuing when individuals didn't want to sit in the area.

My companion had the apple souffle and I can assume it was out of this world as I wasn't even offered a bite!

We had an excellent bottle of 1999 Neuf Du-Pape for $90. I am the furthest thing in the world from a wine expert but I found the list to be well set up as far as navigation and the prices were reasonable for a restaurant of this calibre. A very long selection of by the glass and half bottle too.

I found that Adour is serving perfectly prepared food with simple yet very precise presentation. Sauces and vegetable preparation were the standouts.
Nothing new or revolutionary is coming out of the kitchen but I also don't think that was the intention of this concept.

Can't say I would return for a second visit for dinner but I would love to have some glasses at the bar and try their bar menu. Seeing as the bar and "lounge" is so small that might prove to be difficult.

This post has been edited by flinflon28: 07 February 2008 - 09:12 AM

[docsconz]

What makes you say that you don't think you would return for dinner? The descripton of your meal (minus the tenderloin) sounds enthralling.

[flinflon28]

While it certainly wasn't Essex House prices it doesn't feel like a place I'd return to two or three times a year due to the cost.

To me it was perfectly prepared almost classical but somewhat "boring" food.

That's not in the least bit a slight but it didn't hit me on alevel the way my first meal at Gilt under Liebrandt did. While the types of cuisine being served at Adour and Gilt aren't really comparable I found the litmus test to be "Would I pay $400 again to eat at Gilt?" To me the answer was an emphatic yes but at Adour I'd be hesitant. Would certainly return for a visit to the bar though!

[oakapple]

flinflon28, on Feb 7 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

To me it was perfectly prepared almost classical but somewhat "boring" food.

That's true at many restaurants like that. Many of their clients are looking, quite simply, for classic food executed well. Critics had the same complaint about Gordon Ramsay. I ate at Veritas recently, and had a similar reaction. (I looked back at reviews a decade ago, and that's what they said then.) La Grenouille once had four stars for classic food executed almost perfectly. The execution may have slipped since then, but the concept is still the same.

[sethd]

oakapple, on Feb 7 2008, 06:05 PM, said:

flinflon28, on Feb 7 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

To me it was perfectly prepared almost classical but somewhat "boring" food.

That's true at many restaurants like that. Many of their clients are looking, quite simply, for classic food executed well. Critics had the same complaint about Gordon Ramsay. I ate at Veritas recently, and had a similar reaction. (I looked back at reviews a decade ago, and that's what they said then.) La Grenouille once had four stars for classic food executed almost perfectly. The execution may have slipped since then, but the concept is still the same.

I agree completely. I have often wondered what is the difference between "boring" and "exciting" food. Most of the great restaurants exhibit what you describe as classic food executed brilliantly. How many restaurants truly do something different; Gagnaire, EL Bulli, WD-50, ALinea. Can you name any others?

[docsconz]

There is a lot to be said for "boring" food that is perfectly executed. I had the sense that money might be the issue as it becomes a question of value. I agree with flinflon28 that I would sooner drop big coin on a restaurant that excites me conceptually and executes that well than a restaurant that that simply provides reliable deliciousness without the extra intellectual or emotional component. That is not to say that every now and again I don't enjoy re-experiencing classical perfection.

I hope to try Adour for myself sometime.

[oakapple]

sethd, on Feb 7 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

I have often wondered what is the difference between "boring" and "exciting" food.  Most of the great restaurants exhibit what you describe as classic food executed brilliantly.  How many restaurants truly do something different;  Gagnaire, EL Bulli, WD-50, ALinea.  Can you name any others?

It's easy to forget, but Jean Georges was considered innovative in its day — not as far "out there" as El Bulli, but not classic French cuisine by any means. Obviously the edge has worn off a bit, because Vongerichten has stopped innovating. But there's a huge difference between JG and La Grenouille.

[ulterior epicure]

oakapple, on Feb 8 2008, 09:04 AM, said:

sethd, on Feb 7 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

I have often wondered what is the difference between "boring" and "exciting" food.  Most of the great restaurants exhibit what you describe as classic food executed brilliantly.  How many restaurants truly do something different;  Gagnaire, EL Bulli, WD-50, ALinea.  Can you name any others?

It's easy to forget, but Jean Georges was considered innovative in its day — not as far "out there" as El Bulli, but not classic French cuisine by any means. Obviously the edge has worn off a bit, because Vongerichten has stopped innovating. But there's a huge difference between JG and La Grenouille.

.... moto in Chicago; The Fat Duck in Bray, UK; L'Arnsbourg in Baerenthal, France;... what about L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon?

Sometimes "exciting" is just what's different from what we call familiar. For an Asian, David Chang might be doing classic Korean/Asian food in an "exciting" way. Likewise, as oakapple noted, Jean Georges has brought a new way to approach French and Southeast Asian cuisine. The same might be said of Samuelsson and Scandinavian and, now with Merkato 55, Indo-African cuisine.

[Mayur]

Yeah; I'd say that a giant heap of restaurants falls outside the "classic cuisine prepared perfectly" sphere. Heck, Per Se does given Keller's repeated forays into whimsy; JG definitely does with spicing and ingredients, and even the Modern (and Atelier before it) showcase more innovative takes on haute cuisine. Paris is full of these sorts of restaurants (L'Astrance, Le Cinq, etc.).

[nikkib]

Has anyone eaten here recently? Is there anywhere else you would recommend over it in teh same price bracket?

[oakapple]

nikkib, on Feb 25 2008, 03:47 AM, said:

Has anyone eaten here recently? Is there anywhere else you would recommend over it in teh same price bracket?

As we saw it, Adour was charging three-star prices for very boring food. I have only one data point to go on, but at this point I would recommend any other three-star restaurant in town—Eleven Madison Park, for instance.

[nikkib]

Have only ever eaten there for lunch - what is the crowd like in the evening?

[flinflon28]

oakapple, on Feb 25 2008, 06:48 AM, said:

nikkib, on Feb 25 2008, 03:47 AM, said:

Has anyone eaten here recently? Is there anywhere else you would recommend over it in teh same price bracket?

As we saw it, Adour was charging three-star prices for very boring food. I have only one data point to go on, but at this point I would recommend any other three-star restaurant in town—Eleven Madison Park, for instance.

Depending on your wine choices you can even do Daniel instead of Adour for ALMOST but not quite the same price.

[oakapple]

nikkib, on Feb 25 2008, 07:57 AM, said:

Have only ever eaten there for lunch - what is the crowd like in the evening?

I haven't seen any recent reports. A couple of weeks ago, on a Saturday evening, it was perhaps 50-60% full. However, it was still early days, and the staff claimed that they were deliberately spacing things out, so that the kitchen wouldn't get overwhelmed while they're still wearing training wheels.

[ASM NY]

nikkib, on Feb 25 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

Have only ever eaten there for lunch - what is the crowd like in the evening?

We were there on Saturday night. The room was maybe 70-80% full.

[ASM NY]

oakapple, on Feb 25 2008, 09:48 AM, said:

nikkib, on Feb 25 2008, 03:47 AM, said:

Has anyone eaten here recently? Is there anywhere else you would recommend over it in teh same price bracket?

As we saw it, Adour was charging three-star prices for very boring food. I have only one data point to go on, but at this point I would recommend any other three-star restaurant in town—Eleven Madison Park, for instance.

Marc, am surprised that you didn't like it as much. As mentioned earlier, the food is not particularly creative, but I haven't seen or expected that at other AD restaurants. We had the truffle tasting menu, so maybe it was representative of the rest of the a la carte menu.

We left with the impression that the restaurant is positioning itself as a competitor to an Atelier of JR, but at a lower price point. Especially taking into account the price of wine at both places.

[BryanZ]

oakapple, on Feb 25 2008, 12:49 PM, said:

nikkib, on Feb 25 2008, 07:57 AM, said:

Have only ever eaten there for lunch - what is the crowd like in the evening?

I haven't seen any recent reports. A couple of weeks ago, on a Saturday evening, it was perhaps 50-60% full. However, it was still early days, and the staff claimed that they were deliberately spacing things out, so that the kitchen wouldn't get overwhelmed while they're still wearing training wheels.

I believe she was referring to EMP. The crowd is, umm, dinner-like. It's more casual than the food dictates but the room's grand if a little cold. Really one of the very top tables in NYC.

This post has been edited by BryanZ: 25 February 2008 - 07:59 PM

[sethd]

[quote name='oakapple' date='Feb 25 2008, 12:49 PM']
[quote name='nikkib' date='Feb 25 2008, 07:57 AM']Have only ever eaten there for lunch - what is the crowd like in the evening?
Adour is not open for lunch.

[nikkib]

yes i was asking about the EMP crowd not adour -sorry it wsan't very clear. I am just wondering where best to go when visiting from the uk in spring. We have already done Per se/Gordon Ramsay but then our top end (or restaurants where we spend the most) restaurants have been more "ethnic" nobu/megu etc and this time we want to go somewhere "classic" for a special occasion but we are all still in our 20's/early 30's so don't fancy being the youngest by too great a margin - whilst i know the river cafe is not exactly top end when we ate there before we were not only the youngest there by a good 30 odd years we were singularly ignored by the sommelier until i ordered a $200 bottle of champagne as an aperitif in order that we might actually get treated with some decency. In short no where too "stuffy" adour was on the list as was da posto, daniel and le bernadin along with picholine and le cirque.....

This post has been edited by nikkib: 26 February 2008 - 04:46 AM

[DutchMuse]

You certainly won't feel out of place at EMP....lots of younger diners there.

[ulterior epicure]

nikkib, on Feb 26 2008, 06:46 AM, said:

yes i was asking about the EMP crowd not adour -sorry it wsan't very clear. I am just wondering where best to go when visiting from the uk in spring. We have already done Per se/Gordon Ramsay but then our top end (or restaurants where we spend the most) restaurants have been more "ethnic" nobu/megu etc and this time we want to go somewhere "classic" for a special occasion but we are all still in our 20's/early 30's so don't fancy being the youngest by too great a margin - whilst i know the river cafe is not exactly top end when we ate there before we were not only the youngest there by a good 30 odd years we were singularly ignored by the sommelier until i ordered a $200 bottle of champagne as an aperitif in order that we might actually get treated with some decency. In short no where too "stuffy"  adour was on the list as was da posto, daniel and le bernadin along with picholine and le cirque.....

My (former) college roommate and I celebrated our 27th/29th (respectively) birthdays at EMP last year. We felt perfectly comfortable there. In fact, most of the diners around us seemed like the same age bracket (mid-20's to mid-30's).

[Nathan]

nikkib, on Feb 26 2008, 04:46 AM, said:

yes i was asking about the EMP crowd not adour -sorry it wsan't very clear. I am just wondering where best to go when visiting from the uk in spring. We have already done Per se/Gordon Ramsay but then our top end (or restaurants where we spend the most) restaurants have been more "ethnic" nobu/megu etc and this time we want to go somewhere "classic" for a special occasion but we are all still in our 20's/early 30's so don't fancy being the youngest by too great a margin - whilst i know the river cafe is not exactly top end when we ate there before we were not only the youngest there by a good 30 odd years we were singularly ignored by the sommelier until i ordered a $200 bottle of champagne as an aperitif in order that we might actually get treated with some decency. In short no where too "stuffy"  adour was on the list as was da posto, daniel and le bernadin along with picholine and le cirque.....

oh gosh... go to EMP, WD-50, Tailor...

also, go to Ssam Bar one night for a restaurant unlike anything in the UK.

[nikkib]

was at wd50 in august - amazing! Might take my friends back for dessert tasting mmmm! Am definitely going to ssam bar too - am off to swot up on tailor too thanks for all the advice!