168 replies to this topic

[borris]

Apparently Morimoto's new restaurant is due to open very soon. Has anyone heard any details?

[juuceman]

don't know how true that is - they're having a private party toight, but the restaurant was still pretty unfinished yesterday..

[Vadouvan]

Chatted with Morimoto GM yesterday, Fand F monday, open by the end of the month which is next tuesday.

[docsconz]

Where is it?

[juuceman]

Chatted with Morimoto  GM yesterday, Fand F monday, open by the end of the month which is next tuesday.

private party tonight - Gourmet Magazine's 65th birthday party..

Meat Packing - near or across the street, from Del Posto..

Edited by juuceman, 23 January 2006 - 03:53 PM.

[Daniel]

I feel this is going to be the new impossible place to get into.. I see the Nobu crowd flocking to this place and totally scening it up. I hope Morimoto's keeps the same friendly attitude and service that exists in Philly..

[raji]

If you check Gothamist they posted some pictures of the interior. I can't tell if it's classy or gaudy.

I don't know much about the Philly restaurant, but is it good because it's an oasis in a desert, or does it really compare with top NYC Japanese restaurants?

[bpearis]

Ed Levine went, ate, and lost weight!

[oakapple]

Early photos can be found here.

[KatieLoeb]

If you check Gothamist they posted some pictures of the interior. I can't tell if it's classy or gaudy.

I don't know much about the Philly restaurant, but is it good because it's an oasis in a desert, or does it really compare with top NYC Japanese restaurants?

You haven't checked out the PA forum much have you?

There's plenty of restaurants in Philly that can compare to the best New York has to offer, Japanese and otherwise. And there's some we have here that are unique and unlike anything NYC has to offer.

[Lreda]

Morimoto's in Phila was great though it's been 2 years since we ate there. Although a good amount of of alcohol was involved that day. I look forward to trying the new site in Chelsea. Most assuredly, it will have a big city vibe. No diss at Philly. (Well, maybe my hatred of The Eagles)

[raji]

If you check Gothamist they posted some pictures of the interior. I can't tell if it's classy or gaudy.

I don't know much about the Philly restaurant, but is it good because it's an oasis in a desert, or does it really compare with top NYC Japanese restaurants?

You haven't checked out the PA forum much have you?

There's plenty of restaurants in Philly that can compare to the best New York has to offer, Japanese and otherwise. And there's some we have here that are unique and unlike anything NYC has to offer.

Yeah sorry, shortly after posting I checked out the Philly forum. Seems like it's vying to be a trendier version of Sugiyama. I didn't mean Philly was a desert, but with such a low Japanese population compared to NYC I can't imagine a lot of authentic Japanese restaurants...

Edited by raji, 24 January 2006 - 04:24 PM.

[philadining]

raji, it's certainly true that Philly does not have lots of high-end Japanese restaurants. That said, I've known a few New Yorkers (even Yasuda fans) and world-travelers who were impressed with Morimoto. But I doubt anyone would call it an "authentic" Japanese restaurant.

The pictures linked above make the NY spot look a little unfinished, Steven Starr restaurants are all pretty slick, so I suspect it's a little more together from a design standpoint than those pics suggest.

I think I prefer the warmer feel of the smaller Philly location:

But then, I'll wait to see the NYC version to say that for sure...

I suspect that there'll actually be some good food there, but it might be hard to find amid the buzz and beauty and hype.

Edited by philadining, 24 January 2006 - 11:02 PM.

[juuceman]

i stand corrected.. January 31 is the public opening..

http://www.nysun.com/article/26406

[R Washburn]

There's plenty of restaurants in Philly that can compare to the best New York has to offer, Japanese and otherwise.  And there's some we have here that are unique and unlike anything NYC has to offer.

Really? Are you referring to "The Palm", "Smith and Wollensky's" and "Pietro's"

I can't really think of any restaurants in Philadelphia "worth a trip" from New York, although I do enjoy a few places when I happen to be visiting. I really like "Le Bec-Fin" but it is far cheaper to eat at ADNY, Per Se, Daniel or Jeans-Georges when you factor in the travel.

I do think that Philadelphia has superior Hoagie bread (Sarcone's) and coffee (La Colombe), and make a point of stocking up on these items when I am in town.

[allister]

If we could bring this back the Morimoto NYC for a moment, what are people's expectations for the restaurant. Is this going to become just another over priced, shishi, 'be seen' place? I have made a reservation for the omakase table for next friday. The omakase starts at $200 (plus beverage). This puts it on the scale of per se, though slightly cheaper than Masa. Will the food match?

Edited by allister, 26 January 2006 - 08:56 AM.

[Fat Guy]

I was wondering the same thing. Other than the association with Iron Chef Morimoto, what is Morimoto's unique selling proposition? What will it offer (and what does it offer in Philadelphia) that is special? Or is it just a well executed Nobu knockoff?

[oakapple]

I was wondering the same thing. Other than the association with Iron Chef Morimoto, what is Morimoto's unique selling proposition? What will it offer (and what does it offer in Philadelphia) that is special? Or is it just a well executed Nobu knockoff?

Quoting Hamlet, "That is the question." New York already has several big-box Japanese restaurants (Ono, ENJB, Matsuri, Megu). Beyond this, there are the other premium Japanese dining establishments that are smaller, but very well regarded (Masa, Yasuda, Kuruma, Gari, and even Jewel Bako). I'm no expert on the Philly dining scene, but I doubt that Philly has so many restaurants of this type in such a concentrated area.

This post on Eater quotes a review of the Philly outposts of Morimoto and Buddakan, concluding that they will not make it in New York:

Morimoto- I wanted so hard to like, but every single time the food fell short- way short of my worst visits to Nobu. Morimoto-san does not cook there- the restaurant is too big for him to run the kitchen in a meaningful fashion- he walks around and greets his friends or tourists....

Buddakan is even worse- a derivative of China Grill with a few Japanese (tuna tartare, etc..) type dishes thrown in there.....

Starr could succeed with smoke and mirrors in a town like Philadelphia were most upscale diners have to travel to destination restaurants. I don’t feel he has a chance in NYC where substance (ie: food and service) tends to prevail.

The writer may be giving NYC too much credit—we have our own restaurants that succeed with smoke and mirrors—but the genre into which Morimoto and Buddakan are trying to fit may now be over-saturated.

Edited by oakapple, 26 January 2006 - 09:27 AM.

[philadining]

I think that the presumption that the restaurant Morimoto in Philadelphia was a concept in search of a high-profile chef is not entirely accurate. There are reports of Steven Starr insisting that certain dishes had to be on that menu, but from reading several articles, I got the sense that the restaurant and the menu is largely what Masaharu Morimoto wanted, not a theme park to which he attached his name.

And I'm sure the same is true for NY, there will be some design and marketing aspects that Starr will have insisted on, but the food will be primarily Morimoto's, and (not that this would be an inherently bad thing) he's not a Philly guy trying to make it in NY, he's a chef who's done serious work in Tokyo and NY.

The idea quoted from Eater that the (philly) restaurant is too large for him to cook at in any meaningful way is odd, it's not that large a space, and do we really have the expectation that celebrity chefs are making all of our food? He's generally been around in Philly, and in the kitchen. Sure, he does a bit of meet and greet out in the dining room, but that's not unusual for famous chefs.

The NY restaurant looks much bigger, and with restaurants in two cities I suppose one could grouse that he can't possibly be all that hands-on at either. That said, it's hardly a unique situation these days, and in the specific case of the NY location, you can bet he'll be there all the time for quite a while.

Stylistically, the food in the philly location is, as Steven suggests, largely a Nobu knock-off, but a well-executed one. (I have not eaten at Nobu, but I have compared the menus: Yellowtail tartare with caviar and yuzu, rock shrimp tempura, salad-ized sashimi, roasted black cod, a fancified donburi, etc.)

That said, I found the omakase to be quite tasty, if not innovative. I would expect that he'd push the boundaries a bit further for the NY scene. And a hot-rock rice-bowl dish: a fusion of Donburi, BiBimBap and sashimi that they called "Yellowtail BuriBap" was really great. Morimoto's a stickler about rice, and it shows...

It will be interesting to see if the food gets way more innovative, or if they rely on the formula that's been working. Both Morimoto and Buddakan could probably make money simply duplicating their Philly concepts. They might not win-over the dining cognoscenti, but there are plenty of folks in NY, natives and tourists alike, who would be susceptible to the charms of the theatrical settings and interesting-enough menu. It may not be new in NY, but it will be well-executed.

I certainly hope that both will not simply replicate themselves, and will indeed rise to the challenge of NY competition. We'll see...

[Vadouvan]

1.NY Vs Phila.

Have to agree with BUX, really pointless discussion.
No reason to compare, both cities should celebrate the strength's of thier respective dining scenes.
There is always a better city. Phila isnt trying to be and doesnt want to be NY.
There is just as much crap in NY as there is in philly, look at Express on Park south, food is garbage but its still wall to wall people.


2. Morimoto/Buddakan Culinary merits.

Stephen Starr isnt spending $20 million on two restaurants in the meat packing district because he is interested in James beard awards. Its about money, has nothing to do with philly food scene.
If ONO, Spice market and Matsuri are packed, Buddakan and morimoto *will* be packed despite what any of the purist say. That's why they sell specialty cocktails.
The demographic is very specific and I doubt it intersects with those who love Yasuda and Karumazushi. Most of the people who go to Morimoto Phila are out of towners, same thing will happen in Ny on weekends.

3. La Colombe coffee *ONLY* tastes really really good at the cafe on 19th and sansom.
I had it at Ducasse and it wasnt nearly as good.
There is excellent espresso in NY too, St Ambreous on 77th and Madison for example.

Edited by Vadouvan, 26 January 2006 - 01:32 PM.

[KatieLoeb]

Or is it just a well executed Nobu knockoff?

Buddakan is even worse- a derivative of China Grill with a few Japanese (tuna tartare, etc..) type dishes thrown in there.....

Is anyone sensing a theme here?

Vadouvan's point about the money is a good one. Steven Starr is a restaurateur. In a former life he was a rock concert promoter. He is not and never has been, a chef. He's about capital investments in large scale thematic restaurants. The concepts are ones that have worked before, and worked well (read: profitably) for others before him. That doesn't by definition make his restaurants bad, but it does mean that the focus might be different than what the average eGulleteer would seek in the competition for their dining dollars. Nonetheless, his restaurants are successful by his own standards. $$$$

[Vadouvan]

Um....
Next door Nobu and Nobu57 are well executed Nobu knock-offs.

Ultimately critics of these places are missing the point, its the same purist argument you heard when Megu, ONO and EN Brasserie opened.
It aint about the food, it's about $$$$$.
No it wont be on the top ten japanese restaurants in the city but it will be in the top 5 $$$ sales, that's why they coughed up $10 million.
Last summer when they saw a sea of people trooping in and out of spice market, they figured it out.
I assure you, more than the purists, the people least interested in these two places opening are Mssrs Vongerichten/Suarez/Chodorow.
Im not saying people are going to stop going to spice market or Ono but those cash cows are going on a diet next spring. just watch.
Why do you think Starr had the party and invited all the "neighbors" ?
It's called a "FU" party in the industry.....
as in "FU, we are going to split your customer base and tap into all this cash flowing around"

[philadining]

A restauranteur into making money?!??! Scandalous!!

I'm not suggesting that Morimoto is going to be the best Japanese restaurant in NY, but if the places were all flash and hype and no substance, Starr could have bought a few more blinky lights and hired some schmuck to cook. Yes, he's a master of PR and buzz, but he also hires good people in the kitchens, or, as with Morimoto, partners with them.

No, Starr's places are not entirely about the food. Many fine restaurants are not only about the food. I suspect many of us here on eGullet prefer no-hype, chef-driven restaurants and wouldn't really mind if the dining room were an unrenovated garage, if it had comfy chairs. But a lot of folks, with a lot of cash, like a bit of glitz and flash, and actually enjoy those expensive silly specialty drinks.

But do you really think Morimoto is going to serve complete crap at a NY destination with his name on it? Michael Schulson is a good chef, did he give that talent away when he came to Buddakan in NY?

Vadouvan is right: the eG crowd and Asian food purists are not the target audiences for Morimoto and Buddakan. But I still maintain that there will probably be some good food to be had at both places. Maybe not everything... maybe nothing will surprise or thrill us eG sophisticates, but the restaurants are not just PF Changs with better lighting design.

[Sneakeater]

But that's the thing about all those places (I'm talking about ones in NYC, which are the ones I know) -- Megu and Matsuri (where I've eaten), Ono (where I haven't but know people who have). The food isn't terrible. They all have name executive chefs; that's part of the selling point. The food just isn't very fine. But that's because the food isn't the point. The food is just a lure. The food can't compete with -- or even survive -- the scene.

So should we applaud these places for not being terrible, or just ignore them (even you agree they're not aimed at us)? Seems like an easy call to me.

[lizard]

Stephen Starr isnt spending $20 million on two restaurants in the meat packing district because he is interested in James beard awards. Its about money, has nothing to do with philly food scene.

One of the things that should be pointed out is that Starr does hire good talent, and with the resources generated by his specialty drinks alone, he can allow some very great chefs go on to even greater things.

It's no fluke that last year's James Beard Rising Star winner worked at Striped Bass. The best chefs in the country as well as the world would kill for a setup like the one these guys get.

I highly doubt that Chodorow puts such a premium on talent or product quality at his "Asia de China Grills". While maybe not the raison d'etre of these establishments, it's a pretty nice benefit, and one that should be weighed carefully.

Edited by lizard, 26 January 2006 - 03:50 PM.

[ulterior epicure]

Late to this thread... back to the topic...

I have been to Morimoto twice, and both times had his omakase. I'd have to say the first time was much more impressive than the second (although Morimoto was personally cooking for me the first time)... I would agree that his food is far from "authentic" Japanese... but he is certainly creative and that is very fun to experience! I would indeed be curious to see how his NYC bureau fares.

As for the rest of the Philly restaurants, I've done most of the old school institutions and am itching to try the new(er) biggies like Vetri and Striped Bass.

Studio Kitchen sounds absolutely a "must!" Thanks for all the reviews.

U.E.

[Leonard Kim]

I think I'm most in agreement with philadinings post and would add that

1) In all the publicity, there's not much we've heard from Mr. Morimoto himself, perhaps because of his somewhat limited English. However, in an essay he wrote for the Iron Chef book, he says the following, written before Morimoto NYC and even Morimoto Philadelphia:

What if I die five years later, amid all these congratulatory words?  Then nothing has come out of my being an Iron Chef.  The real battle for Masaharu Morimoto begins now.  I plan on opening my own restaurant in New York in the year 2001.  I plan to go as far as I can as a chef.  Do I have a chance?  Of course I do.  Failing in Tokyo is one thing, but I cannot afford to fail in New York.  I will succeed in New York.

I think these aren't words of a chef just attaching his name to a restaurant. I suspect that Philadelphia was, sorry, a trial run, a stepping stone, call it what you will, with New York always the intended goal. So it's probably not fair to view this as a Philadelphia export, at least from Morimoto's (if not Starr's) standpoint. Actually, given the fact that people's dining experience at Morimoto Philadelphia seems awfully well-correlated to whether Morimoto was actually in the kitchen, things may take a turn for the worse there.

I suspect Morimoto considers himself a New Yorker leading me to

2) Of course Nobu is the reference point. Morimoto was head sushi chef there. Reichl's 1995 review is framed by her interactions with Morimoto (which I find rather charming as this was before he became IRON CHEF MORIMOTO) and she uses him as the exemplar of the Nobu spirit.

In New York, Mr. Matsuhisa's spirit of invention lighted a spark in the kitchen, igniting each chef to new and increasingly daring feats. The fire started slowly; in the beginning the kitchen seemed lost when Mr. Matsuhisa, who spends only one week a month in New York, was not on the premises. But then the head chef, Shin Tsujimura, who spent many years at Hatsuhana in Manhattan, and the chefs who work with him began to seem excited by the possibilities of being liberated from tradition.

"Do you like my 'sorbet,' the head sushi chef, Masaharu Morimoto, asked one day, stopping by to introduce his latest creation. The little ball of white fluff looked like ice cream but turned out to be grated turnip with a single enormous peeled grape inside. On top, like the icing on a sundae, was a fan of marinated abalone. Each bite was clean, refreshing, delicious. . . .

Sushi lovers will find that no kitchen in the city turns out a more spectacular plate of raw fish. And sake lovers, having learned to love the flavor of the Hokusetsu sake, which trickles out of iced bamboo pitchers with the pure flavor of melted snow, will find it almost impossible to drink the stuff served in other restaurants. Even dessert, once the Achilles heel of the kitchen, has improved. Melon balls dance across slabs of slate framed by stars made of jellied fruits and chocolate. Grape sorbet arrives in a bamboo box. And what is this on top? A feathery toothpick that looks like no other in the world.

"Do you like it?" Mr. Morimoto asks, laughing with delight. "I carved it out of a fish tail."

And say wasn't Nobu itself an import of another city's restaurant? Here's Reichl again, in words that could be recycled, should Morimoto succeed:

But while you're waiting for these new ventures, let me suggest a visit to Nobu, a remarkable restaurant that epitomizes the energy of the city at this exact moment.  When Nobu opened last year, most people assumed that it would be a clone of its Los Angeles sibling, Matsuhisa. In the beginning, despite flashy digs designed by David Rockwell and management by the restaurant impresario Drew Nieporent, that is pretty much what it was. But the restaurant's instant popularity had a remarkable effect: as Nobu matured, it gained confidence and developed its own personality. It has grown into a restaurant that cannot be compared to anything else.

3) But this is 12 years ago, which is the point some of you are making with respect to the prospects of this restaurant "at this exact moment." And the other point is, taking away the hype, how good is Masaharu Morimoto really? Good enough to be head sushi chef at Nobu. And how far has he come since then? Where does that place him now among the city's Japanese chefs? Is it good enough for the success of Morimoto NYC? I have no answer to these questions, but it seems to me this is the way to approach the food question, and probably some of you can take a good stab at it.

[Sethro]

On the Buddakan NY note, I had a chance to see Michael Schulson's menu, and stylistically its on a way different level than Buddakan Philly. I think they're are indeed intending to compete with NY's most food-foward establishments.
As far as Morrimoto NY, my understanding is that we can expect to see something dramatically different there as well.

[KatieLoeb]

If you check Gothamist they posted some pictures of the interior. I can't tell if it's classy or gaudy.
I don't know much about the Philly restaurant, but is it good because it's an oasis in a desert, or does it really compare with top NYC Japanese restaurants?

The former that's why he opened up in Philly first, it didn't take much to be the best.

However I do believe that he's going to be more creative in NYC than he has been in Philly.

The reason Morimoto opened up in Philly first is because he needed to get out of Nobu's shadow. And because he had a restaurateur willing to put his name on the door and pick up the cost of designing a restaurant around him. It's easy to be a big fish in a smaller pond, especially when your backer owns Sea World, or the restaurant equivalent of it in Philadelphia. The idea of being Shamu, or the featured attraction, and then going back to NY a conquering hero is undoubtedly quite appealing. Besides, you can't miss someone unless they've actually left, right?

As to whether he's more creative in NY or in Philly remains to be seen, but I haven't been that blown away by any of what I've seen here. Some folks find the menu creative - I really don't. And it's outrageously expensive by anyone's standards. I have my own favorite BYO Japanese restaurant that's outside of Philly that I think is quite creative and a third of the cost. I'll keep going there happily and let others wait on line for expensive eats and overpriced drinks with moody phallic lighting.

[Vadouvan]

Agree with your point Katie.
In fact your key point of getting out of Nobu's shadow is exactly the reason they opened in Phila first coupled with the fact that cost are much more sensible here.
Morimoto phila cost 2.5 to 3 million, in comparison..Ny 10 to 12 Million.
Of course both numbers are severly inflated for PR purposes but back to the food.
All the food that was being served in the first 6 months of Morimotophila were basically out of the First Nobu book. Granted he was head sushi chef there but jeez, there just was no Imagination......... but you can get away with that in philly since very few people realise it.
If you remove all the fluff like shaved daikon and mountain peach, all the food at the phila outpost is basically more boring pan Asian. For all the money you spend, you can get those dishes cheaper or/and better.

Matt Ito blows them away on most cooked Items and Sagami definitely nails them on both Hamachi Kama and Nasu Shigiyaki. The oyster program is al NObu, creamy spicy sauce, aji panca. aji amarillo, maui onion ect ect.
Yes Starr did say they will fly in fish from Japan, lots of people do, Megu, Masa, Yasuda ect ect.
By the way, the best dish on the menu at philly morimoto is the ramen noodles soup.