542 replies to this topic

[Magus]

I am looking to build the next burger empire. I am originally from Brooklyn but now transplanted in the Midwest. This empire can be built with the help of food lovers on egullet.

First...in order to build this empire I need a FANTASTIC! burger. I can make a good burger from a frozen puck by using my custome made seasonings and all of its embelishments, but good is not good enough...this burger will need to be "OUT THE GATE!" So I will need to be able to make these burgers in house.

I will also need to figure out how to keep these business secrets secret.

What kind of buns should be used? regular, potato, Should I toast them on the griddle.

Does anyone have any suggestions on doing so. I would like to know what types of meat to grind toghether along with percentage of fat content. I cooked a frozen burger with a 30% fat content and even when I cooked it well done, it was still very juicy. The only problem is that this quarter pound burger shrunk quite a bit making it the same size as a regular burger bun. Although it taste great, it did not look very impressive size wise.

In the process of serving the best burger, I am forced to serve fries. So I have to go for the goal of making some fantastic fries to go with the burger. Buying frozen fries from a distributor would be the easy route...I want to make fresh cut fries..DOUBLE FRIED. If anyone can lend a hand with this information that would be great. I would like to know what kind of spuds to purchase, what is the BEST oil to fry them in...veg oil, beef tallow etc. what are the degrees to double fry them and the over all process of making a great fry. I am not trying to win any awards for healthy food...I would rather have the food taste great than worry about how fattening it is.

This brings me to my last question. When It comes to shakes, The shake would have to be off the hook as well. Do I use a premium ice cream, or do I use a custard, Do I purchse the ice cream or custard already made or do I try and make them myself.

Soda...buy or make my own?

I want peole to walk away and say "that was the best burger, shake and fries that I have EVER had. I want my food to be a "no contest" when people are thinking about these foods.

I know this is a TALL order but I want to bring the quality and service of food back to what it once was.

Thank You

Edited by Magus, 13 September 2005 - 06:51 PM.

[Jason Perlow]

I would attempt to reproduce the original Mcdonalds hamburger from circa 1965. Down to the exact detail. You'd sell them like hotcakes. I'd go totally retro. Minimalistic. Shakes in two or three basic flavors -- vanilla, chocolate, and maybe strawberry, and I would use soft serve. Long, thin fries cooked in beef tallow.

Sodas I would either procure old-style flavors in in retro glass bottles with crown caps or I would get premium syrups made only from sugar cane, and take extreme care with the mix.

No chicken sandwiches, nuggets or veggie burgers. Forget breakfast. Extremely limited menu but do it well.

The meat grind and fat composition is important but not nearly as important as making everything fresh. You can certainly get good ground beef from a distributor if you dont want to grind it yourself.

I presume you are going to griddle fry the burgers as opposed to broil/grill?

[Magus]

I would attempt to reproduce the original Mcdonalds hamburger from 1965. Down to the exact detail. You'd sell them like hotcakes. I'd go totally retro. Minimalistic. Shakes in two or three basic flavors -- vanilla, chocolate, and maybe strawberry. Long, thin fries cooked in beef tallow.

Sodas I would either procure old-style flavors in glass bottles or I would get premium syrups made only from sugar cane.

Funny you say retro. I am going to base this business out of a 1945 spartan travel trailer. This trailer is all aluminum, open all year round. It is roughly 8ft wide by 33 feet long.

I also worked at McDonalds back in the early 80's. They used reconstituted onions. They were dry in a bag...we had to put them in a steam pan...add water and put them in the walk in refrigerator. They had every thing timed. The grill had beepers...put the frozen pucks down,...it told you when to sear, turn and take the burger off the grill. But how would I know how they did it back then... I was born in 69

Edited by Magus, 13 September 2005 - 07:12 PM.

[Magus]

Shakes in two or three basic flavors -- vanilla, chocolate, and maybe strawberry, tro. and I would use soft serve. Long, thin fries cooked in beef tallow.

Question: where can one buy beef tallow? Is this a kind of oil or is this something that is added to the oil.

Sodas I would either procure old-style flavors in in retro glass bottles with crown caps or I would get premium syrups made only from sugar cane, and take extreme care with the mix.

Retro glass bottles? what is a crown cap?

No chicken sandwiches, nuggets or veggie burgers. Forget breakfast. Extremely limited menu but do it well.

I already have a chicken sandwich...I can forgo the nuggets but cutting out veggie food cuts out alot of customers in my area.

The meat grind and fat composition is important but not nearly as important as making everything fresh. You can certainly get good ground beef from a distributor if you dont want to grind it yourself.

I dont really have a butcher that I can trust in re. to giving out the "secret" meat mixture to other businesses. On the other hand, It adds more stress on me trying to keep it a secret.

I presume you are going to griddle fry the burgers as opposed to broil/grill?

I am going to use a thermostatic griddle all the way.

[Chris Amirault]

Go to LA, study In n Out, and replicate it on the east coast.

[Daniel]

I would attempt to reproduce the original Mcdonalds hamburger from 1965. Down to the exact detail. You'd sell them like hotcakes. I'd go totally retro. Minimalistic. Shakes in two or three basic flavors -- vanilla, chocolate, and maybe strawberry, and I would use soft serve. Long, thin fries cooked in beef tallow.

Jason this comment makes me wonder what the original burger is?

[MarketStEl]

Retro glass bottles? what is a crown cap?

A crown cap is a metal cap that is crimped onto the mouth of the bottle; unlike the screw caps that are more common today, it takes a bottle opener to remove it. (12-ounce beer bottles are also sealed with these caps, but many of them now use a version that has a screw-thread-like groove incorporated into the crimps so that it can be twisted off.)

The crown cap is so called because it resembles a crown when placed top down. Philadelphia's Crown Cork and Seal was--and I believe is still--one of the biggest manufacturers of these types of bottle caps.

[Magus]

Does any one know where I might start to look for Beef Tallow. It seems that this stuff is pretty hard to find.

[Jason Perlow]

I would attempt to reproduce the original Mcdonalds hamburger from 1965. Down to the exact detail. You'd sell them like hotcakes. I'd go totally retro. Minimalistic. Shakes in two or three basic flavors -- vanilla, chocolate, and maybe strawberry, and I would use soft serve. Long, thin fries cooked in beef tallow.

Jason this comment makes me wonder what the original burger is?

Holly Moore can probably go into detail -- they resembed the current basic Mcdonalds hamburger and cheeseburger, except they were made fresh, with fresh ground beef. They used dried onions and par-froze the burger patties prior to cooking them.


I found a website that claims to have the original formula:


http://www.stuffucan...ld recipies.htm

[Magus]

Does anyone know the percent mixture of sirloin, brisket to fat of the shake shack? This sounds like a good mixture. Also, I cooked a burger that contained 30% fat, I was able to cook it well done and it was still juicy. I just have an issue with serving undercooked food with many people being lawsuite happy these days.

I saw the McDonalds site and this seems pretty straight forward.

As far as shakes go, I was thinking of using a good icecream with heavy cream instead of milk. I was also thinking of using a shake mixer instead of a blender. Soft serve ice cream would require a machine and they are a kings ransome.

[Daniel]

Holly please weigh in on this... A nation holds its weary ears towards S.Jersey Upper Pa...

Edited by Daniel, 19 September 2005 - 10:11 AM.

[TPO]

I don't know where in the Midwest you are, but Minnesota has some famous burger places that might be worth researching.

One thing that seems to attract people is a specialty item with a cool name. Matt's Bar in Minneapolis offers a burger called a Juicy Lucy -- two patties with melted cheddar sealed in between them on toasted buns with piles of fried onions. The wait to get one at lunchtime can be very long, but worth it. Also in Minneapolis is Annie's Parlour, old-fashioned soda fountain with fantastic shakes and burgers.

In St. Cloud there is this tiny little place called Val's Rapid Serve which has a very limited menu and one thing they have is burgers that taste similar to the original McDonald's burgers. They often win for best burger in central Minnesota.

As far as soda goes, if you're in the Midwest now you will have to learn to call it pop. I think making your own soda would be fun, but I think offering soda that has been around a while also would be a hit. IBC root bear and cream soda in bottles goes great with burgers, and there must be other brands that are really good but not often found in restaurants.

Fuddruckers, although it is a chain restaurant, offers a decent hamburger cooked the way you order it. I have ordered them so that they are still pink in the middle -- I can't remember what their disclaimers are but they must have some.

[Jason Perlow]

As far as shakes go, I was thinking of using a good icecream with heavy cream instead of milk. I was also thinking of using a shake mixer instead of a blender. Soft serve ice cream would require a machine and they are a kings ransome.

You could do it that way and you'd get good results as well.

[Megan Blocker]

Go to LA, study In n Out, and replicate it on the east coast.

Exactly what I was thinking. I want a Double-Double!!!!

[slbunge]

Have you already outfitted the trailer? If so, what do you have in there for appliances and how much cooler/freezer space will you have?

[Magus]

This is the trailer type that I am purchasing for the restaruant.

I think it fits with what I want to do.
Business Names I am thinking of

Number 9 Eatery




The trailer is not outfited yet, I will need to gut the whole thing, rewire it, and make it food ready.

No matter how far I move away from the East. Soda..will always be soda

[MarketStEl]

Hey, Magus, beautiful food porn on your profile page.

Just curious: Why "Number 9 Eatery"?

And you can certainly continue to call it "soda"--just don't use that word on your signage. If "pop" sticks in your craw, use "soft drinks".

Edited to add: And exactly where in the Midwest are you?

--Sandy, Kansas City native

Edited by MarketStEl, 19 September 2005 - 10:19 PM.

[Magus]

Like the number nine I want my food of my establishment to be like no other. The number 9 is the only number that if you multiply it by any number, the sum of thoes numbers is 9. i.e 9x54=486, 4+8+6=18 1+8=9. I want my food to be somthing special, thats why I am digging for feedback, I want to be the best at what I do.

[Magus]

Food wise I really like Jasons idea about keeping the menu limited. Although I have SOOOOOO many food ideas, it may be the case of spreading myslef too thin, (no pun intended).

Idea: I have a miro-brewery in town, I am going to check with them to see if they would not mind botteling some soda for me, or if they even have the capacity to do so.

I hear alot of good things about the shake shack, so I will try my hand at making milkshakes from frozen custard. Although the major competiton in that area in my neck of the woods is Ritters Frozen Custard. Otherwise I here that Ciao Bella has a great ice cream I can use.

I was also thinking about delivery but burgers and fries dont keep very well temp wise. No one in my area makes a fantastic cheese steak...there is one place that serves steakum

I also make my own marinade. I have a marinade for chicken, pork, beef and venison. There is not one restaurant that market there own sauces here.

Edited by Magus, 20 September 2005 - 05:01 AM.

[Jason Perlow]

You're going to turn a classic Airstream into a mobile burger joint?

I am not sure whether to be blown away or to recoil in horror!

[Magus]

No need to be alarmed. I figured what better way to serve vintage flavored food but from a vintage "establishment"

These were built back in 42, I think it will just add to the whole. This is more of what I will be working with.




This is why the food has to be fantastic. Every detail must be thought out with precision.

On another note. I would imagine back then, they served milkshakes in clear glasses. well, I have found a source for solo cups (starbucks like) with a dome lid. Do you think that would work.

[raxelita]

I hear alot of good things about the shake shack, so I will try my hand at making milkshakes from frozen custard. Although the major competiton in that area in my neck of the woods is Ritters Frozen Custard.  Otherwise I here that Ciao Bella has a great ice cream I can use.

Just a heads up to you that Ciao Bella would likely make a very expensive shake, especially after shipment to the heartland. Maybe you can go cahoots with Ritters?
I like your ideas so far, and wish you luck.
R

[Jason Perlow]

On another note. I would imagine back then, they served milkshakes in clear glasses. well, I have found a source for solo cups (starbucks like) with a dome lid. Do you think that would work.

I think it would look visually nice, but the cups aren't insulated, so it might not be as good as styrofoam for keeping the shake cold.

[Magus]

This is the logo in progress

I am in the process of making it look weathered



I am thinking of stickers to hold the butcher paper on the wraped burgers



I think it will look halfway decent on a cup and menus.

I am just wondering if I sould say burgers and shakes instead of dining car

Edited by Magus, 20 September 2005 - 09:33 AM.

[TPO]

Now I really need to know where in the Midwest this will be located so I can go there.

I like the logo. I'm not sure about the words. "Dining Car" implies to me a full diner menu, and as some others have said I think a smaller menu of fabulous food is better than a larger menu of good food. "Burgers and Shakes" would work but you might have to change "The Original" above it. I'd like to say "The Original Burger Joint" but the logo seems too classy for such a casual name. You could try something like "Classic Burgers and Shakes," although that may be redundant with "Vintage Flavor."

I love the idea of stickers on butcher paper-wrapped burgers.

[MarketStEl]

Now I really need to know where in the Midwest this will be located so I can go there. 

What he said.

Indeed, I think I asked the same thing upthread.

That's one phat logo. I'd second TPO's recommendation to remove "dining car" from the logo, as it implies a larger menu than you plan to offer. Even though the logo is very classy, I don't think that "Burger Joint" would be demeaning at all. In fact, I kinda like the juxtaposition.

And as I said to you in a pm, I do hope that someday you will be able to move up to a real vintage dining car with menu to match. The Airstream is a good start, though.

You've put a lot of thought into this business. I hope you're mobbed on opening day.

Edited by MarketStEl, 20 September 2005 - 11:18 AM.

[Magus]

Has anyone ever tried to marinade meat, grind the meat and then make burgers out of it. I have never tried it, it seems like it can be done. Also, has anyone ever try to grind chicken breast?

Come to think of it, I dont think restaruants had such things back then.
The also did not have diet soda.

Edited by Magus, 20 September 2005 - 12:30 PM.

[Jason Perlow]

I would definitely go with "burgers and shakes" instead of "dining car"

[Chris Amirault]

You're going to turn a classic Airstream into a mobile burger joint?

I am not sure whether to be blown away or to recoil in horror!

I had a similar reaction, but then thought of Providence's own Haven Brothers Diner, which -- though not an Airstream -- does have a few qualities in common with Magus's project. Click here (and scroll down) for a vintage shot and here for a more contemporary snap.

[phaelon56]

Gimme Coffee of Ithaca NY and Brooklyn built a gorgeous espresso bar in a 1948 aluminum trailer.

It;s installed on the Cornell University campus and the above page has a link to photos of the restoration, construction and installation project. Mega cool and i'ts been very well received.

Good luck on your project.