36 replies to this topic

[tan319]

Here is a link to the definitive (?) sous vide tech & cookbook, authored by Michelin starred chef Joan Roca..

http://www.chipsbooks.com/sousroca.htm

JBPrince doesn't appear to be carrying it yet, KA&L probably are.

169.95 ain't cheap but I'm sure this is worth every penny.
Enjoy.

[theabroma]

I see what you mean by the necessity of the sous-vide book ... may have to smash the piggy bank!

And on an errant note, as I perused the table of contents I noted a recipe and explication of the following:

Concept Recipe for Indirect Cooking
Suckling lamb shoulder with ewe’s milk

... and couldn't help but smile remembering the ancient injunction "thou shalt not seethe the kid in it's mother's milk" ... and that it supposedly formed the basis of the dietary restriction of consuming milk and meat together.

A charming coincidence.

Regards,

Theabroma

[chefseanbrock]

this book is amazing!!!!

worth every penny, they have made an art out of sous vide cooking

sean

[tan319]

So you've found it pretty helpful, sean?
Are you guys using immersion circulators?

this book is amazing!!!!
worth every penny, they have made an art out of sous vide cooking
sean

[chefseanbrock]

we've had the spanish edition for a few weeks and it is really helpful, these guys did alot of research and it shows....

we love our immersion circulators, they are so accurate and save so much space, I would say 50 percent of our food is cooked sous vide

Edited by chefseanbrock, 03 July 2005 - 01:23 PM.

[chefdg]

What is an immersion circulator? Or more importantantly, where can I get one?

[edsel]

What is an immersion circulator?  Or more importantantly, where can I get one?

An immersion circulator is a heating element with a pump to circulate the water. It's basically the working parts of a tempertature-controlled water bath without the tank. You bolt the circulator onto the side of a container of water to make a water bath for your process. I have a Lauda MS that I use with a twenty-gallon pot. It has no problem maintaining ± 0.1 °C, which is plenty accurate for sous vide cooking.

You can get immersion heaters (or complete water baths) from laboratory supply companies. You can also find them second-hand, although that may not be a good option if you plan to use it in a restaurant kitchen - health officials may be suspicious of where the instrument was used in its previous life.

nathanm started a topic on sous vide that has discussions of equipment.

[tan319]

Thanks for the link,edsel.
BTW, did anyone notice that Wylie Dufresne (wd50) wrote the foreword to this book?
Also, how does one correctly pronounce Wylies last name?
Maybe chefseanbrock can answer that one?
Thanks!

[Bux]

Thanks for the link,edsel.
BTW, did anyone notice that Wylie Dufresne (wd50) wrote the foreword to this book?
Also, how does one correctly pronounce Wylies last name?
Maybe chefseanbrock can answer that one?
Thanks!

Cool that Wylie wrote the foreword to Roca's book. Although Wylie was cooking to a full house the night I was last there, and it was a Tuesday, Dewey Dufresne agreed that critical success has been greater than popular success so far. I suppose you could say that he's not listening to either PT Barnum or HL Menken, or just not craving popular success all that much.

Dufresne is pronounced something like Du-frain or Doo-frane.

[tan319]

Thanks for the help, Bux.
That's how I was pronouncing it.
As for his popularity, seems like he's always got a full house according to the threads.
He's cooking about 50% of his menu sous vide, from what I've been reading.

[Bux]

. . . .
As for his popularity, seems like he's always got a full house according to the threads.
He's cooking about 50% of his menu sous vide, from what I've been reading.

I suppose to some extent it may be a matter of how long in advance you have to call for a reservation. I called about a month in advance, that would be par for most places in NY with any credibility -- for an off night. What I don't know is how recently the last table was reserved. From my perspective, the ideal restaurant would fill up the day before. That way I don't have to make my plans long in advance and I don't have to worry about it going out of business.

Most of his food arrives looking as if it were created or conjured, rather than "cooked." I say this with no disrespect. I've had the same sense about Adrià's food. It breaks ground in terms of the way we perceive cooking and food. Adria has been criticized for using "industrial techniques." In essence, what I think that means is that he's preparing food less like cave men in close proximity to an open flame and that it's going to be harder for the average amateur cook to go home and replicate the dish.

[Michael Ruhlman]

Can anyone tell me if he confits sous vide?

[akwa]

Can anyone tell me if he confits sous vide?

which he

btw herve this wrote the forward for the original edition

why the change

all the same what a great book

takes the fact that two generations of swiss, etc. are using these techniques and eats their lunch

[docsconz]

Can anyone tell me if he confits sous vide?

which he

btw herve this wrote the forward for the original edition

why the change

all the same what a great book

takes the fact that two generations of swiss, etc. are using these techniques and eats their lunch

My suspicion is that they felt that Wylie may be more familiar to an English speaking, in particular American, audience than Herve This. It may also be that Chef Dufresne is particularly close and well connected with the Spanish avant-garde. I am trying to decide whether I should get this book now or when I am back in Spain later this summer. How far is Gerona from Roses?

[Bux]

. . . . How far is Gerona from Roses?

The Michelin Guia Rosa says 56 kilometers. I recall a fair amount of traffic as well. Much of that was truck traffic, which might also explain the number of young women standing by the side of the road seemingly going nowhere. Naively at first, I looked to see if there wasn't some sort of rural bus stop.

[Bux]

Can anyone tell me if he confits sous vide?

I'm wondering what the advantage would be, or at least I was. Assuming one used sufficiently high enough heat and you'd have to do that if you were then going to let the finished confit sit around for a while, even refrigerated, then you'd have the advantage of a sterile airtight package. It would be lot like canning. Eating Spain has brought me a new respect for canned goods, as has the introduction to canned boudin noir that's produced according to Christian Parra's recipe from the southwest of France. I'm not only thinking this would be the way to go for commerical confit, but wondering if the vacuum packed confit I've seen for sale wasn't cooked in the same pouch. Would it work?

[Michael Ruhlman]

the advantage would be the need for less fat, lower heat, easier storage, and general conveniece and perhaps even a better finished result.

I'm wondering though if it works; it seems to me the density of the fat does something important in the traditional cooking process.

Also, there's a danger of botulism poisoning in the vacuum packed bag held at low temperatures.

Edited by Michael Ruhlman, 08 July 2005 - 05:55 AM.

[tan319]

. . . . How far is Gerona from Roses?

The Michelin Guia Rosa says 56 kilometers. I recall a fair amount of traffic as well. Much of that was truck traffic, which might also explain the number of young women standing by the side of the road seemingly going nowhere. Naively at first, I looked to see if there wasn't some sort of rural bus stop.

[tan319]

Michael,
you may have already checked out some of these other threads regarding sous vide but here's a link anyways, just in case...

http://forums.egulle...opic=39023&st=0

I think Botulism gets addressed in here, maybe in the later pages.
Also, nathanm has gathered a lot of knowledge in his pursuits of all things sous vide, maybe shoot him a PM, I'm betting he would be keen to share.
Good Luck!

the advantage would be the need for less fat, lower heat, easier storage, and general conveniece and perhaps even a better finished result.

I'm wondering though if it works; it seems to me the density of the fat does something important in the traditional cooking process.

Also, there's a danger of botulism poisoning in the vacuum packed bag held at low temperatures.

[Wolfert]

Also, there's a danger of botulism poisoning in the vacuum packed bag held at low temperatures.

If you're using a home vacuum packing system such as foodsaver, rather than a professional chefs' system, it's best to serve meat or duck within one week. (MOre sophisticated machines allow chefs to keep refrigerated cooked food in pouches in the refrigerator for many months.) You can't do that with the clamp\food saver and not worry. So what I do is use the food within a week. If for whatever reason, a refrigerated pouch begins to puff up, discard at once.

YOu can always store home cooked, home bagged food for longer storage in the freezer.

When I make duck confit in bags and plan to switch to long term fat storage for
a complete flavor change in other words, to have the best of both worlds,I transfer the cooked duck and fat to a pan to simmer a few minutes then pack them in earthenware jars and store in the fridge for up to 5 months.


BTW For saftey, all confit should be heated through before serving, even for dishes to be served cold or at room temperature. When I worked in Daguin's kitchen back in the 70's I remember he used to steam the legs
for about ten minutes in a couscous type steamer before frying or broiling or oven browning.


edited after Tan 319's post: Michael: go to that forum asap. Nathanm is an egulleteers "treasure" on the subject.

Edited by Wolfert, 08 July 2005 - 07:34 AM.

[Michael Ruhlman]

thanks for the post and I'll check out that forum.

[marlena spieler]

While the result of sous vide cooking is divine, and i would love to know the intricacies of it as it seems to be a totally different mindset from hands-on cooking, nonetheless, am i the only one who feels uncomfortable with all of the cooking in plastic? i am very concerned about plastic molecules leaching into the food.

and maybe i like to smell my food, stir it with my hands, touch it with my fingertips....i do find sous vide removed from the sensual side of life. but truthfully, i do worry about the whole plastic thing.

marlena

[docsconz]

My wife has the same concerns, but I suggest you check out the sous vide thread if you haven't already. As for me, I'm not that concerned at the temperatures used for cooking sous vide. I'm more concernedabout the potential for bacterial illness if not handled properly.

Is it any less hands on than roasting?

[Michael Ruhlman]

my guess is that because the plastic never goes above 212 degrees F./100 degrees C., plastic molecules don't get into the food or affect its flavor. can't deny the lack of sensorial appeal, but cooking anything slowly gently for a long long time is its own kind of pleasure

[marlena spieler]

Is it any less hands on than roasting?

Oh, yes, much less hands on, or rather nose-on: when you roast you can smell the goodness, your can judge the doneness by using your sniffer, you can give it a prod with a utensil, or with your fingers quickly, you can turn it over and admire it, you can add a few cloves of garlic just for the sheer joy of it....though sous vide cooking i gives excellent results (and i've been in enough starred kitchens to see them with their sous vide bags all lined up, stashed away, ready for warming........, it reminds me a bit of........please forgive me..........microwave cooking. that is the food is isolated and cooked according to directions and timing rather than one's senses and intuition.

i guess you can tell i'm not a baker. i hate measuring things too.

x marlena

[Wolfert]

I think in a microwave, all the heat is absorbed uniformly within the food, and it is quickly cooked producing something that doesn't have much 'chee' or life. Why can you always sense when food is cooked in a microwave?
On the other hand, in sous vide cooking, the outer surface of the food absorbs the heat first, and this heat then moves slowly inwards. This takes a long time at low temperature and the resulting food can be very intense in flavor and succulent in texture. If you didn't know that the food was cooked sous vide you would be more apt to think it is just 'perfectly cooked.'

[Bux]

. . . . If you didn't know that the food was cooked sous vide you would be more apt to think it is just 'perfectly cooked.'

The sensory deprivation of cooking sous vide doesn't extend to eating sous vide cooked food.

[Corinna Dunne]

What is an immersion circulator?  Or more importantantly, where can I get one?

I don't think the link below has been posted. Apart from starting the sous vide topic, Nathan also started a topic on where to get an immersion bath (great info on eBay etc). You'll get it here:

http://forums.egulle...topic=60181&hl=

Also, just one question. I am assuming that Joan Roca's book is an American edition. Does anyone know if there is an English edition?

[pedro]

Corinna, you may want to take a look at:
http://www.derecoqui...nde.asp?ID=5883]http://www.derecoqui...nde.asp?ID=5883[/URL]

There's also a French edition:

http://www.derecoqui...eng.asp?ID=5884

The price is the same for the three editions, 99.5€.

[Corinna Dunne]

Thanks for this Pedro. I see that they also have the El Bulli Vol 3 English edition which doesn't seem to be available on Amazon yet (I was cross checking the prices).