20 replies to this topic

[tommy]

recently i picked up a pack of ground beef (80/20) to make hamburgers at a big party i was having. usually i'll grind my own meat, but given the amount i needed, i figured i'd go for the pre-ground. i mean it's not as though it's so horrible that it would make anyone sick.

at any rate, i made a hamburger with this stuff, and it was the most ridiculously juicy thing i'd ever had. i thought that i just got lucky with the cooking method (on the weber gas grill, as it has been many times before) or the package itself. i got another batch of meat to see if it was just an anomoly, and again, it produced one of the juiciest burgers i've ever had. and a third batch yesterday as well.

i can't get over this meat. i don't know what the story is, or why it's so different than any other store's ground beef, but it literally squirts "juice" and makes a sort of squishy-wet-sound when you bite into it.

i'm not sure if this is specific to the S&S where i purchased the meat, but i'd be curious if anyone else has bought ground beef from them and had the same experience.

[Rosie]

What was the percentage of fat in the package?

[tommy]

What was the percentage of fat in the package?

80/20. no different than what i've been buying for years elsewhere.

and i have to say that if it's only a fat issue, which i imagine it might be, then it's amazing that every restaurant that makes hamburgers, and every person who buys ground meat, isn't using meat with a higher fat content.

regardless, the difference between this meat and meat elsewhere is astounding.

Edited by tommy, 12 July 2004 - 06:08 AM.

[chefdavidrusso]

I don't know if this is common knowledge (and I apologize if it is) but test marketing and other such studies have shown the 77/23 is the perfect lean-to-fat ratio in ground beef for hamburgers. It's juicy without being greasy, and the fat content isn't so high as to cause the burger to shrink too much during cooking.

Just a random bit of food trivia on the issue for anyone who cares

[menton1]

It's amazing to me that Stop n Shop got anything right... not only do I find their selection of products awful, but their prices are astoundingly uncompetitive. I REALLY miss Grand Union...

IMHO the best Supermarkets in the area for price, selection, and service are the Glass ShopRites-- one on Rte 4 East in Paramus, and the other in Englewood next to Thai Chef.

[tommy]

IMHO the best Supermarkets in the area for price, selection, and service are the Glass ShopRites-- one on Rte 4 East in Paramus, and the other in Englewood next to Thai Chef.

but how is their ground beef.

[Jason Perlow]

IMHO the best Supermarkets in the area for price, selection, and service are the Glass ShopRites-- one on Rte 4 East in Paramus, and the other in Englewood next to Thai Chef.

but how is their ground beef.

The one in Englewood has become my standard go-to place. I HATE the Stop-and-Shop in Tenafly. Their produce is abyssmal. I'd rather go to Tenafly Gourmet Farm and pay their inflated prices for their absolutely pristine produce (which I frequently do) then deal with Stop-and-Shop.

The Englewood Shop Rite is also 24 hours -- and its great to go there late at night.

[tommy]

IMHO the best Supermarkets in the area for price, selection, and service are the Glass ShopRites-- one on Rte 4 East in Paramus, and the other in Englewood next to Thai Chef.

but how is their ground beef.

The one in Englewood has become my standard go-to place. I HATE the Stop-and-Shop in Tenafly. Their produce is abyssmal. I'd rather go to Tenafly Gourmet Farm and pay their inflated prices for their absolutely pristine produce (which I frequently do) then deal with Stop-and-Shop.

The Englewood Shop Rite is also 24 hours -- and its great to go there late at night.

but how is their ground beef?

[Jason Perlow]

IMHO the best Supermarkets in the area for price, selection, and service are the Glass ShopRites-- one on Rte 4 East in Paramus, and the other in Englewood next to Thai Chef.

but how is their ground beef.

The one in Englewood has become my standard go-to place. I HATE the Stop-and-Shop in Tenafly. Their produce is abyssmal. I'd rather go to Tenafly Gourmet Farm and pay their inflated prices for their absolutely pristine produce (which I frequently do) then deal with Stop-and-Shop.

The Englewood Shop Rite is also 24 hours -- and its great to go there late at night.

but how is their ground beef?

All of their meats are excellent.

[schmooty]

I will vouch for the ground beef at the Shop Rite on Rt 4. I buy their 80/20 all the time and it produces juicy wonderful burgers every time. I agree that the Stop and Shop is overpriced and lacking in produce. However, they do carry products such as Bell and Evans chicken that I can't get at Shop Rite.

[tommy]

given the likely method (and lack of science) in creating ground beef for mass consumption, i have to assume that "80/20" varies greatly from batch to batch, store to store.

does anyone have insight as to how these numbers are determined and their relationship to the actual fat in the meat? additionally, i'm assuming "chuck" isn't "chuck" from place to place, and different "parts" might be going into this stuff, which would explain differences as well.

thoughts?

[suzilightning]

IMHO the best Supermarkets in the area for price, selection, and service are the Glass ShopRites-- one on Rte 4 East in Paramus, and the other in Englewood next to Thai Chef.

but how is their ground beef.

The one in Englewood has become my standard go-to place. I HATE the Stop-and-Shop in Tenafly. Their produce is abyssmal. I'd rather go to Tenafly Gourmet Farm and pay their inflated prices for their absolutely pristine produce (which I frequently do) then deal with Stop-and-Shop.

The Englewood Shop Rite is also 24 hours -- and its great to go there late at night.

but how is their ground beef?

i'll do some research for you up here in the sparta stop and shop

though most of the people i have talked to up here don't care for the quality of the foods(expired dairy, cereal two years past date are some of the things i've heard ) and there was a fishy smell in that department one time i ventured in.....

but for you, tommy

[ghostrider]

I gotta stick up for Stop & Shop! I think they're great! At least the one in Lyndhurst. They have the best seafood counter in the area (tho not as good as Whole Foods, which I consider out of area) & quite a few other delicacies - e.g., the Bell & Evans chicken that schmooty mentioned - that ShopRite simply doesn't carry, not even the glass ones.

Ultimately I have to go to all 4 stores (my local brick ShopRite, the glass ShopRite in Lyndhurst, the S&S in L'hurst & the Whole Foods in Montclair) to get everything I want at a reasonable price. They all have their virtues, & failings. It's a pain, but what's a foodie to do?

Oh, the ground beef - can't really help you there, I don't do that stuff any more. Unless it's Australian. Which shows up at my local brick SR once in a while. It reminds me of European beef, interesting flavor.

Edited by ghostrider, 12 July 2004 - 04:20 PM.

[scott123]

Re: moist hamburgers

I've been making a lot of meatloaf lately and noticing the differences in texture when differing amounts of liquid are used.

It seems that more liquid you add, the more tender/juicy the meat gets. Too much and it won't stay together and you'll have soup.

I'm not saying that Stop & Shop adds water to their meat, but if you did buy meat elsewhere and wanted to match the Stop & Shop level of juiciness... try adding some water to the 80/20 (or 77/23 as suggested) ground meat.

My meatloaf results all point to this conclusion.

[menton1]

Ultimately I have to go to all 4 stores (my local brick ShopRite, the glass ShopRite in Lyndhurst, the S&S in L'hurst & the Whole Foods in Montclair) to get everything I want at a reasonable price. They all have their virtues, & failings. It's a pain, but what's a foodie to do?

Just to clarify: Glass Shoprites are ONLY the ones owned by the Glass Brothers, they only own Englewood, Paramus, Rochelle Park, and Rockaway. ShopRites are a cooperative, and many groups own different stores, and they can be quite different, even though they use the same buying group and same advertising. The ones run by Glass are IMHO the absolute best in the state. I think the one in Lyndhurst is a Singer Bros. Shoprite. It's definitely not a Glass. Try one of the Glass Shoprites, and you will never go to Stop n Shop again. You will also save about 15-20% off your shopping total at Shoprite vs. Stop n Shop.

P.S. Glass Shoprites have Bell & Evans Chickens, and also the fabulous Murray's chickens!! The Englewood store also has the nicest supermarket fish dept. I've seen anywhere, including Wegman's!

[chefdavidrusso]

given the likely method (and lack of science) in creating ground beef for mass consumption, i have to assume that "80/20" varies greatly from batch to batch, store to store.

does anyone have insight as to how these numbers are determined and their relationship to the actual fat in the meat?  additionally, i'm assuming "chuck" isn't "chuck" from place to place, and different "parts" might be going into this stuff, which would explain differences as well. 

thoughts?

The ratio of lean to fat is actually pretty strictly regulated by the USDA. Certain sections of a cow (like the chuck, or sirlion, etc) have pretty standard and well established natural ratios. In other words, ground chuck is naturally going to have 80% lean and 20 % fat. I can't remember exactly what the margin of error is allowed to be, but I know that it's pretty tight. What your even more reputable places will do is literally seperate all the lean from all the fat and then weigh out the exact proportion. So the long and short of it is that within a very small margin of error, "80/20" is going to be the same from batch to batch, store to store. What makes the difference in the quality of the final ground beef is going to be the age of the animal at slaughter, as well as the length of time between grinding and consumption.

And if I can add a thought to the meatloaf discussion (such as it is)...I have always found that the key to juicy meatloaf (and the same with meatballs as well) is adding alot more breadcrumbs than you would ever think is normal....almost equal amounts breadcrumbs and meat. I know it sounds like you're trying to cheat and stretch things, but that's exactly the point. Meat was never so abundant as it is now and, traditionally, people wanted to get the most out of what they had. It just so happens that it was good food science. When you cook meat, the proteins expand leaving less space between themselves. The water that was there has no place to go but up and out. That's why cooked meat is always less juicy than raw meat. When you add the breadcrumbs, the starch in the bread absorbs the water and holds it in the ground meat, thus producing a juicier loaf (or ball)

Sorry....that's the culinary instructor in me coming out to play

I know it's not a supermarket, and I don't know how many of you are near to my area, but I have beccome hooked on Goffle Road Poultry for all my poultry needs. Anything with wings they have, plus they retail a small selection of dry goods, frozen items, some cheese, butter, and stuff like that. Their eggs are the best I have had...they almost have a faint sweetness when you cook them, they're so fresh. I've cooked their Cornish hens, and have eaten their rotiserie chicken (they do 2 cookings a day...one that's ready at lunch time, and another that is ready at about 5 o'clock. You order it, they cook it)

I've had good supermarket luck at the A&P in Midland Park, but I'm also about 4 minutes from the Whole Foods in Ridgewood. I'll go there for meats and fish and some specialty things, and then do my day to day shopping at the A&P. But the butcher across the street from the Whole Foods is pretty good....he cuts from sides of beef and whole pigs...he doesn't just get box beef. And he does some of his own dry aging, makes his own sausages, and does his own smoked meats.

Ok...that's enough topics for one post

Edited by chefdavidrusso, 12 July 2004 - 08:35 PM.

[tommy]

The ratio of lean to fat is actually pretty strictly regulated by the USDA.  Certain sections of a cow (like the chuck, or sirlion, etc) have pretty standard and well established natural ratios.  In other words, ground chuck is naturally going to have 80% lean and 20 % fat.  I can't remember exactly what the margin of error is allowed to be, but I know that it's pretty tight.  What your even more reputable places will do is literally seperate all the lean from all the fat and then weigh out the exact proportion.  So the long and short of it is that within a very small margin of error, "80/20" is going to be the same from batch to batch, store to store.  What makes the difference in the quality of the final ground beef is going to be the age of the animal at slaughter, as well as the length of time between grinding and consumption.

that's interesting stuff, chef.

just tonight i noticed that Kings now has a sign that says something along the lines of "we grind our beef on premises, so we can closely monitor the amount of fat blah blah blah." fair enough.

now, why is the ground 80/20 chuck at Stop and Shop so much different than any other 80/20 hamburger i've had in the past 36 years. i fed the burgers to 3 people tonight and everyone agreed that something was up. something good. but something up.

as an aside, i would hope that ongoing discussion of which supermarkets suck and which supermarkets are favorites could happen on a different thread. while i find opinions like that fascinating, i was hoping to have a discussion on ground beef from supermarkets in the northern jersey area, or anywhere for that matter. if, as punishment, this needs to be moved to the "general" board, fine, but the geographic nature of the question lends itself, in my eyes, to the NJ board.

and back to chef russo, you missed a nice night at Village Green on saturday. there were like 6 egulleters floating around being loud and eating a lot.

Edited by tommy, 12 July 2004 - 09:37 PM.

[chefdavidrusso]

now, why is the ground 80/20 chuck at Stop and Shop so much different than any other 80/20 hamburger i've had in the past 36 years. i fed the burgers to 3 people tonight and everyone agreed that something was up.  something good.  but something up. 

Though I don't have a definitive answer on that one, my guess would be the quality of the live cattle from which the ground beef was made. Are there any indications anywhere of the breed that they as a supermarket use, or something like that?

And not to start a whole VG discussion here...somehow I didn't think that a rambunctious 8 month old would do well in such a dignified establishment. But with so many eG'ers being loud and rowdy, perhaps he would have fit right in

[scott123]

When you add the breadcrumbs, the starch in the bread absorbs the water and holds it in the ground meat, thus producing a juicier loaf (or ball)

I agree that breadcrumbs absorb the moisture and make for a very tender, juicy meatloaf.

My meatloaf experimentation, though, has been bread crumb free since I've been low carbing for the past 5 months.

More liquid, be it milk, water, ketchup, or juices from the onions get's in the way of the protein strands attempting to bond to one another and results in a looser framework. A looser protein framework prevents the meat from squeezing out all the moisture as it cooks. Assuming of course, you don't overcook it.

I've made 50+ loaves with differing amounts of liquid and they all support my theory. Try it yourself.

Less liquid = denser/drier
More liquid = looser/juicier

And this is all independent of the moisturizing effects of bread crumbs.

[ghostrider]

Ultimately I have to go to all 4 stores (my local brick ShopRite, the  glass ShopRite in Lyndhurst, the S&S in L'hurst & the  Whole Foods  in Montclair) to get everything I want at a reasonable price.  They all have their virtues, & failings.  It's a pain, but what's a foodie to do?

Just to clarify: Glass Shoprites are ONLY the ones owned by the Glass Brothers, they only own Englewood, Paramus, Rochelle Park, and Rockaway. ShopRites are a cooperative, and many groups own different stores, and they can be quite different, even though they use the same buying group and same advertising. The ones run by Glass are IMHO the absolute best in the state. I think the one in Lyndhurst is a Singer Bros. Shoprite. It's definitely not a Glass. Try one of the Glass Shoprites, and you will never go to Stop n Shop again. You will also save about 15-20% off your shopping total at Shoprite vs. Stop n Shop.

P.S. Glass Shoprites have Bell & Evans Chickens, and also the fabulous Murray's chickens!! The Englewood store also has the nicest supermarket fish dept. I've seen anywhere, including Wegman's!

Oh. Thanks. I seriously thought that "glass Shoprites" was an architectural term. Well I guess that was obvious. D'oh!

as an aside, i would hope that ongoing discussion of which supermarkets suck and which supermarkets are favorites could happen on a different thread. while i find opinions like that fascinating, i was hoping to have a discussion on ground beef from supermarkets in the northern jersey area, or anywhere for that matter. if, as punishment, this needs to be moved to the "general" board, fine, but the geographic nature of the question lends itself, in my eyes, to the NJ board.

and back to chef russo, you missed a nice night at Village Green on saturday. there were like 6 egulleters floating around being loud and eating

So, it's OK to talk about ground beef, &/or the Village Green, but nothing else in this thread?

Seriously, point taken. Sorry if I for one took things off course.

I tend to treat Net threads as conversations, one thing leads to another, they go where they will go. Some folks view straying off topic more harshly than others, & etiquette in this area varies from board to board. I'm a serious regular on several other non-food boards, obviously more of an occasional contributor here, I guess I'm srill trying to get a handle on the etiquette here. Anyway, if staying on topic is a big thing with the Jersey egulleters, then I'll try to reign in my straying tendencies in the future. Focused discussions have their place in the scheme of things too!

[rooftop1000]

I am going to drag this thread up, and although it wasn't the Ridgewood store I was just at a Northern NJ Stop and Shop.
6 years later and Stop and Shop no longer grinds their own beef. I was wandering aimlessly through the meat dept because I really wanted to use up half a package of hamburger rolls and driving to ShopRite would have cost more than the rolls. One of the men from the meat room asked if I needed anything so I asked point blank about the ground beef. He said "no it isn't ground in the store and HE WOULDN'T EAT IT"

WTF


tracey