28 replies to this topic

[Andy Lynes]

Nearly every restaurant seems to have a website these days. Some are great, but a few are as badly designed and maintained as any of the worst sites on this web that we call "world wide".

So do you have a favourite that is either visually stunning; simply well designed with up to date, easy to access information, or so bad it's good, with vile backgrounds, impossible to read fonts and colours and info so out of date you feel you've passed through a time warp.

Starter for 10 is http://www.squarerestaurant.com, a real stunner I think, despite some dodgy fonts, and a whole list at http://www.alynes.fr...o.uk/links.html.      

(Edited by Andy Lynes at 11:12 pm on Oct. 18, 2001)

[Fat Guy]

One problem with restaurant Web sites is that, about three years ago, several ridiculously overfinanced internet ventures started hawking Web sites to every restaurant on the planet. For a couple of hundred dollars, or sometimes for free, restaurants were given sites on CitySearch, New York Today, et al. These are rudimentary, one-size-fits-all sites, and most have not been updated since the day they were created. I think that, were it left up to the restaurants, only those with a real interest in quality Web sites would even bother to create their own sites. But thanks to CitySearch and its ilk -- not to mention a surplus of two-bit, fly-by-night Web designers committed to convincing everybody in the world they need a Web site -- there's a lot of chaff out there.

My nomination for an excellent site:

http://www.danielnyc.com/

This site, covering all of Daniel Boulud's restaurants, was designed by none other than our own Robert Buxbaum. Robert is definitely from the minimalist/utilitarian school of Web design, so the site isn't flashy or sexy. It's just good.

Things I like about this site: It is kept up to date (the last update was October 18, 2001), it includes information about each restaurant including menus and interesting stuff about architecture and kitchen design, it contains a news section, and it contains a way to contact the chef with questions. There are even occasional Webcasts.

A bit overengineered, but rich in content, is Alain Ducasse's Web site:

www.alain-ducasse.com

I like the thoroughness of the information, especially in the media section (this kind of thing is very helpful to me as a journalist, because it eliminates the need for me to go hunting for a publicist).

We also discussed the brilliant El Bulli Web site (http://press.elbulli.com) on another thread. This may be the best I've ever seen in terms of its informational content.

[Andy Lynes]

I'm quite suprised at the lack of response to this thread, it's seems to infer that most people don't use restaurant websites that much. Does anyone actually refer to websites before booking a table?    

[tommy]

Quote: from Andy Lynes on 5:59 am on Oct. 24, 2001
I'm quite suprised at the lack of response to this thread, it's seems to infer that most people don't use restaurant websites that much. Does anyone actually refer to websites before booking a table?    

i don't generally, because as fat guy has suggested, they're often out of date.  then again, i can find out more about a restaurant i'm considering through other means, such as this website, then by simply looking over a menu online.  

in a pinch, it's nice to see what type of food they might be offering, but i'd never say "man, that lamb looks great, i'd better go there tonite!" because there's a pretty good chance it won't be on the menu as stated on the website, if at all.

in all aspects, information is only as good as its source and its, ahhh, currentness. ;)

[Fat Guy]

If I want to see a restaurant's current menu, the Web site is the last place I'll look. Even if the menu on the Web site is current, there's usually no unequivocal indication that it is so. So if I want a menu, I call and ask to have it faxed to me. If I'm doing research for a review, I might look at a restaurant's Web site, but again I question most of the information because of uncertainty regarding its currentness. Thus I always call the restaurant or its publicist and ask for press materials anyway. There is the occasional restaurant Web site that includes date information about its menus and includes all the current press releases, bios, etc. But that is a rarity. Even Ducasse's Web site, which is usually a good example of a current and complete site, is still showing the spring tasting menu.

[Bux]

It's clear that I may have a different idea of what a restaurant web site should be than everyone else. I remember being really annoyed when I was out of town and looked up a restaurant's web site and printed up the menu in a cybercafe only to find that when I got to the restaurant, the menu must have been three years out of date to judge by the enormous inflation in prices.  

It's a time consuming job to keep a site up to day. That's for sure. And maybe I've wasted a lot of time in Daniel Boulud's office as I see they have been pretty good at keeping the menus up to date. Does anyone care that not only are the menus up to date, but that they change the recipes in the recipe section to reflect dishes actually on the current seasonal menu? I've known people who tell me they check the site before they go out to dinner and have pretty well made up their minds as to what to order before they leave home or the office. It would be interesting to discuss this as I had some pretty strong feelings about how a restaurant site serves a restaurant and how it serves the public. I don't think it's like a magazine or newspaper ad.

Have web sites become passé that they no longer interest a group of Internet using restaurant buffs? I recall a better discussion about this subject a few years back elsewhere.

[Katherine]

My feeling is there would need to be some sort of "critical mass" of up-to-date and usable websites for the numbers of users to increase. I've seen so many websites that were updated in the distant past, or so full of typos and errors that it was clear the owners don't care. It reflects badly on the rest.

Some of the stuff you read is so clearly PR nonsense. How could we know to trust the site of a restaurant like that?

[Fat Guy]

Quote: from Bux on 2:01 am on Oct. 25, 2001
It's clear that I may have a different idea of what a restaurant web site should be than everyone else.

Bux, can you elaborate on what your idea of a restaurant Web site is, and what you think everyone else's idea is? It seems there is widespread agreement that a restaurant Web site should present a current menu, clearly labeled as such. Beyond that it would be nice to see additional information to help the user better understand the restaurant, the chef, etc. And resources for journalists are nice too.

Have web sites become passé that they no longer interest a group of Internet using restaurant buffs?

I agree with Katherine here: The odds of any given restaurant's Web site containing useful, current information are so low that even die-hard Web gourmets don't rely on them very often. Restaurant Web sites, I might add, are not well promoted. Take Daniel's Web site, for example. Without a doubt, it's one of the best out there -- maybe the best of any top New York restaurant. But I've been to Daniel several times and it's not as though anybody has ever said to me, "Hey, come visit our Web site," or even handed me a piece of paper conveying that message (though I believe it is printed in small type on the business card). I imagine most people who eat there come and go without ever learning of www.danielnyc.com -- which is too bad.

[Bux]

Fat Guy made a few interesting comments. Maybe no one ever made a point of telling you about the web site, but I wonder if the other restaurants of it's class are any more active in this regard. Daniel made a considerable effort via press releases to publicize his web site when it came online. The URL for the web site has been on almost every piece of printed matter I've seen from any of his restaurants. That includes all the handouts for cookbooks, caviar, etc. on display in the restaurant as well as at CB. I heard comments early on that diners found the web site informative. It was shown by calls from regulars that didn't know he had banquet facilities and a catering service until they saw it on the web. When special wine dinners were first announced on the web and by e-mail from a carefully solicited mailing list, I was told they sold out so much faster than when they were announced by mail. So the web site was pretty much a success early on from that point of view, but what would you do about publicizing a restaurant's web site? I would also point out, that they are careful about not collecting a mailing list from those who e-mail the restaurant with odd questions and only send to those who request the news mailings by filling out a secure form. I was adamant about that in the beginning.

It's not that my ideal differs from anyone else's ideal. It's just that if no one uses the web to read menus because they are already convinced the menus will be old, perhaps there's no point in spending all that time and energy keeping them up to date.

The other point about journalists is probably one we may have talked about a long time ago. It was a point I stressed to Daniel very early. My scenario was the journalist from Rio, or Tokyo, who's back home working against a deadline and needs a piece of information. Maybe he calls long distance, but the chef, or his secretary are not there, or busy in the kitchen. This leads to around the world phone tag. Every little bit of pertinent information that you are eager or willing to be made public and that might be of interest to a journalist, should be found on the site. That should be the first resource for him. In general my interest was in getting as much information on the site as possible and organizing it as clearly as possible. I hate web sites that hide the information I want. That includes the latest menu. A coherent site map is something I really like to find as well.

(Edited by Bux at 4:57 pm on Oct. 25, 2001)

[Fat Guy]

It's true, a classy restaurant cannot engage in persistent and blatant self-promotion without tarnishing its image. It must choose carefully which information nuggets it will push on its guests. I'm having trouble summoning up specific memories, but doesn't Daniel occasionally slip a publicity card for a cookbook or whatever in with the bill? Or are those only presented on the rack near the front desk? A similar card devoted to the Web site would go a long way towards spreading the word. Does the restaurant (indeed all his restaurants should do this) collect e-mail addresses of customers via a comment card with an option of being placed on an electronic mailing list? Does the recorded message, if any, on the phone mention the Web site? Actually, I know the answer to this. I just spent nearly six minutes listening to the informational recording. The Web site is mentioned at the very end, after a discussion of dress codes, all the other restaurants in the family, and the catering business. Do reservationists say, at the end of a reservations call, "If you'd like to look at our menu before you visit, you can visit our Web site"? No. Maybe they shouldn't. I don't know. Again, it's a question of priorities. I can't say publicizing the Web site should be a higher priority. I can only say that it doesn't seem to be at this time. This is the case at just about every restaurant.

[Wilfrid]

Interesting thread, because although I spend a lot of time reading about restaurants, I now realise that I hardly ever check out a restaurant's own web-site unless I have a specific question (say about location) which I can't answer from whatever guide is to hand (and let's be honest, for all Zagat's failings, it's handy for addresses and phone numbers).  I'll certainly check out the Boulud site now my interest has been stimulated - but I guess the question is still, what are the web-sites for?  Personally, if I knew I was going to a restaurant tonight, I would actually not check out its menu in advance.  For me, that would spoil the anticipation.

[Wilfrid]

Here's a beautiful site.  I just remembered that one of my favorite restaurants in the world, the Ateneu Gastronomic in Barcelona, has a charming web-site.  Used to be all Catalan/Spanish, but I see you can select English now.  I don't want to read the menu, because I may burst into tears at the thought of how far away it is.  Wish I was eating there tonight.

http://www.ateneu.com/index22.html

[Pete Guy]

Concerning th El Bulli website (elbulli.com), I was very interested in checking it out after I read about it in the "greatest chefs" thread. However, even after clicking on "english" many times, everything comes up in spanish. I can't seem to find any info in english. Am I missing something?

[Fat Guy]

Pete: The El Bulli site is under development right now. Some pages are up, some are down, and others are intermittent. I'm sure the whole thing will be up and running in the near future.

[Nancy Berry]

Here are some good San Francisco Bay Area sites:

http://www.hawthornelane.com/

http://www.chezpanisse.com/index.html

http://www.yanksing.com/index_2.html

[Pete Guy]

Here's a nice one from a place I like in Jersey Cafe Matisse . I recommend it to anyone in the Rutherford area (near Giants Stadium). Excellent seasonal menus and they don't overcharge for the wine (separate wine shop in the front, as it's BYO).

[Scottf]

I do try and find a restaurant's website.  I like to look at a menu, even a sample, for a better idea of what is going on.  

For example I'm coming to NY in 3 weeks and hope to dine at Daniel, Jean Georges and Gramercy Tavern.  I've been to their websites on numerous occasions since the trip's been planned, (Daniel's menu has updated through Spring, Summer and Fall!), and it gets my taste buds going and raises my anticipation level!

[macrosan]

There are only three items of information I would want to find on a restaurant website.

Dress code (actaul as opposed to theoretical)

A photo of the dining area so I can see if the tables are crowded together, and which type of table I would ask for when booking.

A sample menu which will give me an indication of the style and variety of food, and the prices. I have absolutely no interest in deciding what I want to eat in advance of my arrival, and I don't want to know what particular dishes will be available. An up-to-date wine list might help if I actually wanted to research wines in advance, although generally I'm a sucker for the wine waiter's recommendation :-)

I agree with others who have said that 'pre-ordering' takes away the enjoyment of anticipation. Further, what I order is a 'mood of the moment' thing. I have no idea on Tuesday what I will fancy eating on Wednesday.

[Bux]

Is there such a thing as an actual dress code in most restaurants these days? I think few restaurants are so rude as to not allow you to be seated if you're neatly attired. I normally go along with the suggested dress code as a sign of respect. If I'm unwilling to heed it, I'm free to go elsewhere, but I've seen some outrageously sloppy dress tolerated in the best restaurants in Manhattan. On the whole restaurants are getting less formal anyway. I was surprised to see how infromally people dressed in Paris earlier this month. In Brussels, we dined at a restaurant that I expected to be pretty dressy and noticed when we arrived that there was a note on the menu and in the window requesting jackets and ties, but noticed at least one diner in a knit shirt and no jacket.

[chaudfroidoeuf]

On dress code at Paris restaurants, the reservationist at Pierre Gagnaire described a tie as being "strongly recommended" (in French, with emphasis).  Also, Ducasse at Plaza Athenee gave me the more normal version of ties being preferred.  That being said, I have seen diners at both restaurants without ties.

Wholly apart from dress code, I affirmatively want to dress well when I visit I restaurant I like.  I also happen to believe it may help with respect to service at restaurants with which a diner is unfamiliar.

[Bux]

One of my favorite restaurants in NY has recently put up a site. I feel good about listing it as I like the chef and the restaurant as well as because I think it's a logically conceived site with pertinent information. I didn't design the site, although I had offered my servcies to Dan Barber. My one complaint about the design is that it's almost entirely graphic. This allows almost the same layout control as in print media, but it can slow down page loading. It also makes test revision a more complicated process. Speed and bandwidth become less critical as users move towards faster connections and servers offer more storage, this may no longer be the problem I saw it as a few years ago.

http://bluehillnyc.com

[Bux]

This post may be seen as a cheap shot to bump the thread back into prominence. One should expect a bunch of food passionate computer literates to have more interest in restaurant web sites and more to say on the subject. I'm also forwarding this URL to a chef who's interested developing a web site for his restaurant. Maybe eGullet has a role to play in telling restaurants what the prospective diner wants in a web site. I can't be the only guy here who uses google to find guides to other cities when I travel and web sites of interesting restaurants, can I?

[SamanthaF]

http://www.gordonramsay.com/

Sorry...couldn't resist!

Just for Simon.....

[Scottf]

A few more restaurant  websites:

http://www.capital-london.net/

including The Capital restaurant with a current (Jan 02) menu.

http://www.dolphinsquarehotel.co.uk/rhodes_dinner.asp  

Gary Rhodes Pimlico restaurant menu.

http://www.cuisine-collection.co.uk/

Website for London restaurants Zaika, Al Duca and Il Forno

http://www.montcalm.co.uk/

Site for The Crescent restaurant in London

http://www.chaptersrestaurants.com/

Webite for Chapter One and Two.  Chapter One is excellent value and Sam and I have been a few times.  Any one else been?

http://www.pied.a.terre.co.uk/

Site for Pied a Terre in London.

Using the Gordon Ramsay link fron Sam above you can also see Petrus or just follow this one!

http://www.petrus-restaurant.com/

http://www.ransomesdock.co.uk/

Neighbourhood restaurant in South London

http://www.putneybridgerestaurant.com/

Michelin restaurant in err... Putney

http://www.babbonyc.com/

Babbo in NY.  I don't just peruse London websites you know!

http://www.fleurdeselrestaurant.com/

Also in NY.  I like the look of this menu.  May try out on my next visit.

http://www.jean-georges.com/

Jean Georges Vongerichten's website.  Recently updated to flash version.

And lets not forget the website of the restaurant where my brother's the chef:

http://www.haxtedmill.co.uk/

So I think you can safely say I for one enjoy restaurant websites!

[Matthew Grant]

I posted this on another thread. The website includes 5000 recipes from Raymond Blanc as well as sample menus from Le Manoir, details of the rooms available and his cookery courses as well.

http://www.blanc.co.uk/

[Liza]

OK, I'll mention it:
www.starchefs.com
It seems as if a lot of chefs are interested in promoting their brand as being themselves, not any particular restaurant. Starchefs gives you what restaurant websites usually don't: added value. (I have no affiliation with the site, btw). Recipes, bios, interviews, and Q&A with chefs.
My ideal restaurant website would include research and design information, such as how they chose the name, the font, the menus, the layout etc.
Perhaps a virtual tour of the dining room, and kitchen of course!
Group options: private rooms, catering options if any, chef's tables.
An indication of seasonal options
Perhaps mentions of certain suppliers - is the pork from Niman Ranch? Are the tomatoes local? I'd love to know, and it would definitely influence my decision to dine there.
Sample wine pairings they recommend, good to know in advance, doncha think?
What did I forget?

[thom]

I have a vested interest, but for a website for those that work in the restaurant industry (and for passionate foodies as well) I suggest www.therestaurantgame.com

It has a huge depth of information on there, but is especially useful for keeping up to date (with daily news) about the UK restaurant scene.

Hope thats of some use, I'm the Marketing Director for the company, so if you have any questions, queries or criticisms then let me know.

Cheers

Thom

[Andy Lynes]

Thom - just to save your blushes, I have had a long standing link to the site from my own, and I posted a link to my links page earlier in this thread, so hopefuly a few people will have already had a look.

[srjjrs]

any suggestions on determining a restaurant's website address?