33 replies to this topic

[rgruby]

Hi all,

Dined with my wife and another couple at Susur a couple of weeks ago. I'll try and describe the meal as well as I can (I realized about the second course that maybe I should take notes, and they petered out near the end. I also realize upon looking at them nearly three weeks after our meal that perhaps I should have transcribed them closer to the meal itself!)

Also, neither couple dines out at high end restos on any regular sort of level. Susur and a NY Times 3 star (Patria) I dined in in Sept are the only places remotely of this level I've dined in this year. The other couple have dined in a Michelin starred resto (Tamarind), but neither my wife nor I have. This is simply mentioned to give you some idea what our palates have experienced. This was our 3rd trip here, the first time for the other couple.

OK, onto the food. My wife and I both ordered the tasting menu - there was very little overlap between what we were served, with the exception of the pork belly course, where the protein (pork belly) appeared to be the same preparation, but with different sauces and sides. The other couple are "Darwinian" vegetarians. Basically they won't eat the flesh of creatures that managed to crawl out of the inky depths of the primordial ooze. They had the veggie with seafood tasting menu.

The first course/ amuse was tofu with spinach. One featured steamed silky tofu with a traditional (whatever that means) black bean topping and a mirin-soy broth. The other was fried and topped with a mushroom duxelle. Both served on ceramic spoons. Everbody thought these were a good start. The amuse amused.

Susur has this "reverse course" serving policy with tasting menus - instead of the app first, he delivers the heavier courses first and then works backwards towards lighter fare. In practice, I didn't see a whole lot of difference between the next three or four courses in terms of lighter / heavier. Not sure it would have affected the enjoyment of the meal had the serving order been mixed up - but the true hits and the relative lowlights mostly came later.

Also, I have no idea how to choose wine with this type of cuisine. I'm no oenophile to begin with. My usual strategy is to order a decent bottle of Gewurtz and hope it can stand up to the heartier and/or spicier stuff without overwhelming anything delicate. And so we did.

OK, next course. One plate had a lamb chop with a lemongrass heavy peanut sauce, snap peas, mint and chile sauce (?huh? - not sure that's right), a taro "dauphine" (I'd call it a puff), and zucchini stuffed with eggplant caviar. My plate had venison loin with a bone marrow and porcini crust, foie gras and lobster reductions, a candied walnut (I think), water chestnut (ditto) and a cube of very finely cut layers of potato and squash wrapped in bacon (I think they described it as a mille feuille - I know that is not spelled correctly.) In any event - mucho mandoline music. Looked great and tasted great.

The Darwinians had what my notes say was lobster, with spinach, lobster broth and other stuff.

Everyone liked what they had - the Darwinians were not blown away, however. They were impressed by the presentation and the care and attention to detail on the side dishes. For example, their dish had a chive sprouting out of a lobster antennae as a garnish.

For the next course the Darwinians had a dish with romano beans, belgian endive, cherry tomato sauce (my notes say this but it wasn't really a tomato sauce at all really - my recollection is more a clearish broth with tomato bits), with parmesan cheese and garnished with a roasted tomato crisp as garnish. My description of this does not do this dish justice. I think it may also have contained heroin or something else highly addictive- it was very good and tasted far more complex than my simple description. And the Darwinians were more impresed with this than with the lobster course.

The meat eaters had a smoked, roasted oyster and pan seared foie gras with black truffle sauce, jerusalem artichoke puree and a pastry "bridge". The oyster with the truffle sauce is one of the most amazing things I have ever eaten. My wife got the foie gras plate - including a spiced pear slice (can't remember how prepared), slice of foie gras torchon, beef tongue and pig ear terrine (interesting contrast of textures - -don't remember it being strongly flavoured though), squab in a chinese wine reduction with clementine powder, foie gras mousse and blueberry sauce on a ginger cracker, and a japanese wine "jelly". These were all served on a long thin plate.

I say my oyster won this round, but the romano bean dish was freakin' amazing too, and I have opinions on vegetarians that would not be out of line with Tony Bourdain's.

Next, the Darwinians got a japanese eggplant with onion oil, and a mirin (and I think soy again) reduction. Green onions, cilantro and tomatoes seem also to have been involved. At least one of the Darwinians has gone on and on about the layers of flavours in this dish since - I think it was a hit!

The meat eaters got the pork belly. I understand this to be a signature dish - but - it wasn't my favorite. We were served a "blackened" (say my notes - the outside was - well not blackened exactly, at least not like a catfish - more like laquered) pork belly which had roughly equal portions meat and fat. The fat was actually very firm and the idea is to eat a bit of the flesh, fat, and the "blackened" exterior (jeez I'm not explaining this well) together. I found the surface (laquered bit) tough to cut through, and the flavour as a whole was not my favourite. In fact, there's not that much of it. There is an intersting contrast in textures going on, and the mild flavours do get perked up by the sauces. One was served with a tamarind reduction, garlic lentils, and an eggplant, onion happy thing (say the notes). The other was served with a raspberry sauce and daikon was also involved. (Note taking is getting sloppy already!) This one just didn't set off taste bud explosions like the previous course for me.

After that came a seafood course. One found lobster tail meat wrapped in shoestring potatoes and deep fried. That plate also saw a pineapple ravioli, pickled red onion, green heirloom tomatoes, and possibly a dill sauce.

The other offering was a scallop mouse cake topped with roast (I think pan-seared) crab with a dill sauce and garnished with lobster roe.

The lobster in potatoes with pineapple "ravioli" was a definite hit. I don't have notes of what was in the pineapple ravioli - because at the time I don't think we figured it out. Thinly sliced pineapple served as the "pasta". And again, a lot more going on in these dishes than my notes and memory allow. This may have been the highlight for the Darwinians.

Next up was the soup and salad course. The salad was spinach with tarragon vinaigrette, avocado, golden beets, goat cheese and parmesan crisps. Delicious, but probably for the first time all night I felt I could have made that. The soup was a tomato "consomme" with shrimp ravioli and a choux paste pastry with a lobster-corn topping. I don't remember too much about the soup.

Dessert was up next. No notes. It was fabulous. I'm not sure Susur is noted for desserts, but I doubt they're second to anyone in TO anymore, if they ever were. Best I've had in this city, and far superior to what I had at Patria a couple of months ago.

Sorry there are no pictures, but I pondered taking the camera, and at the end of the day decided I'd feel too self conscious doing so.

I felt the service, while a bit informal, was very good. Not smothering, but definitely attentive. For me, this is a good thing.

The Darwinians felt this was the best restaurant meal they have ever had. It's right up there for me too - maybe only topped by the first time I was here. I've had individual dishes, or at least elements of individual dishes, that rival what I've had here, but to keep coming, course after course, over a three hour period with food at this level, is not something I get to experience very often. I feel privileged to have the opportunity to eat food at this level, even if only once a year or so.
Hope this gives a bit of the flavour of a meal at Susur.

Cheers,

Geoff Ruby

[summertruffle]

Spectacular. Thanks for writing it. I certainly appreciated it.

[rgruby]

Not a problem!

I wish I'd taken pictures though! Can't really imagine doing that during a meal, but it'd sure help me remember things a bit better.

Cheers,
Geoff Ruby

[winemike]

Thanks for your report. I really liked it.
You surely appreciate food

I have been to Susur just once but visited many Michelin starred restaurant before
(from one to three stars in different countries). And Susur was right up there.
I am not a Michelin inspector, of course, but if he serves the food he served us
(about 6 months ago) on a regular basis, he would certainly earn 1 or 2 stars,
without a doubt.
And, in Toronto, I have not yet visited a place that would beat Susur if Canada
had a Michelin guide. Or could anyone recommend a better place ?

I found his food very "intellectual", though. Very sophisticated, and perfectly
crafted. Pairing wines with his food is fairly difficult and the "reverse" menu
surley does not help. Making it even more intellectual ?

[chrisnorth]

I agree with the "intellectual" comment. Ate there two years ago and had an extraordinarily memorable meal. They were fully booked that night and I was in Toronto just for the weekend, and after some begging the offered to let me eat in the "lounge" (a small area where guests sit for a minute before being taken to their table -- not a bar proper). The maitre d'hotel served me personally, and Susur came out after every course to ask me what I'd like to eat next. (The answer, of course, was "whatever you'd like to cook for me, Chef!")

My second visit was a few months ago and while the food was still exquisitely prepared, somehow it didn't impress me as much. I'm not sure if the food changed or if I did; lately I've been less interested in elaborate, labored food, and I came away from the meal thihnking that while it was excellent, I hadn't really enjoyed it as much.

[Explorer]

I am not a Michelin inspector, of course, but if he serves the food he served us
(about 6 months ago) on a regular basis, he would certainly earn 1 or 2 stars,
without a doubt.

Hmm...TG you're not a Michelin inspector!
I've been at Susur and Michelins and Relais many times. Hit and misses are not allowed nor delivered 99% of the time at Michelin stared restaurants.

Yes, Susur's food is overly "manipulated", and the overall service/ambiance is a bit artificial, bordering on not-genuine. The establishment is definetely very commercially focused, so if you like to hand your wallet at the door without due consideration for value delivered, you'll have a great time.

Having said that, a few dishes will stand out as works of geniuses. For example the lobster in potatoe and pineapple ravioli (which we also had) are exquisite. I have never seen anyone cut pineapple cubes so small and perfect.

[winemike]

I've been at Susur and Michelins and Relais many times. Hit and misses are not allowed nor delivered 99% of the time at Michelin stared restaurants.

Surely, you're joking.

If you're not ... I'm wondering .... have you really been *often* to
Michelin starred restaurants ?! Or do you simply say "there are Michelin
stars so the food is good" ??!! Because I have had a lot of misses.
Food that I even found totally missed. E.g. Le Crocodile (3 stars at the time)
served a menu "Hommage a Sobek" a couple of years ago. A menu
with strong middle east notes (Egypt, of course). At the opposite
of the very traditional food he normally serves. Not worth any of the
stars he had. Not a single one.
I have a lot of other examples.

Sure, Michelin stars are about regularity. You don't get 3 stars
because you served a fantastic meal once but if you deliver
consistently what I have been delivered at Susur, he would
earn Michelin stars. For his food only, of course. You surely
know that Michelin stars are also earned for many other things,
service (wine service being very important), variety of the food
served, regularity of menu renewals, setting, etc...

Susur has a poor wine list (well, if you compare it to the one I have
seen 6 hours ago at Buerehiesel, for instance, his wine list is a joke).
The reverse menu is a bit too revolutionary and the two "services" at
6pm and 8.30 pm do not help.
So it's difficult to say "he's worth 2.12 stars ..." but you cannot state
99% of food served in Michelins are not trys and/or are not missed.
Implicitely, Susur would not earn any star.
That would just prove you've got no idea.

[Explorer]

Perhaps you could get the name of the restaurant right? Its' "Au Crocodile".
[QUOTE]You surely
know that Michelin stars are also earned for many other things,
service (wine service being very important), variety of the food
served, regularity of menu renewals, setting, etc... "
Therefore, you answered your own question re: Susur getting a star or not.

[winemike]

Therefore, you answered your own question re: Susur getting a star or not

Yes I did.
He would earn stars.

Susur was globally better than my last meal at Lameloise, for instance.
Also better than my last visit at "La Cote d'Or" where I have been many times.
Far better than a 1 star like "Le Montrachet" (who lost it last year, by the way).
Far better than Petrus in London, another 1 star ... Do you need more examples ?
If you have a problem with Susur's style, that's another issue.
Would you be someone who thinks Pierre Gagnaire does not diserve any star ?

And I repeat (you have not read that, obviously) :

if he serves the food he served us
(about 6 months ago) on a regular basis

... he would earn stars.

[docsconz]

The meal I had at Susur about a year and a half ago was one of the best I've had anywhere. I liked the reverse format, although wine pairing is more difficult. I did not get any sense of the restaurant not being "genuine", whatever that means.

[GordonCooks]

I would contend that Susur would rate at least a single star if not two if michelin standards were applied on the merits of the cuisine. Service may be slightly less than perfect - but always good natured and hospitable. Truly intent on creating a remarkable meal. The wine list is lacking but the available CDNPs from Beaucastel and selection of GVs prove capable foils for the food.

[rgruby]

I have to wonder;

If Susur's isn't doing food that would rate a Michelin star, why all the hubbub, profiles in Gourmet etc?

As I mentioned, I haven't eaten in a Michelin starred resto, but I have eaten in a NYTimes 3 star, and Susur was far and away the more memorable meal.

I would like to think that Susur is swimming in the same waters as Keller and some of the other American chef's that are expanding beyond the strictly Cal-Ital-French vernacular, although Tetsuya's in Sydney, looks like the closest comparison I can think of. I haven't eaten there though.

So, to those that have eaten more widely and perhaps better than I, who else is doing the type of food that Susur is doing. (Trying not to use the F-word). Is anyone, anywhere, doing it at a higher level? Is Susur doing things - well, food, things - at the level of a Keller or Trotter, Bouley or Boulud, if perhaps not as consistently in the eyes of some.

And, although there were highs and lows in my meal there, I wouldn't describe these as hits and misses. More like highs and even higher highs.

Cheers and happy hols,
Geoff Ruby

[Explorer]

Hmmm. He's got you all (or some) fooled, apparently. We are talking about the food.

Service at Susur was definitely not at par with European standards. Just as an aside, first they screwed up the dates of the reservation and called to confirm it a day prior, then they gave us an awful table after requesting ahead of time one inside for a birthday occasion. When we arrived and asked for another, they didn't care about it and gave us one by the door where we caught the draft every time the door opened (have you seen tables that catch drafts at Relais or Michelins?). Then, our waiter had body odor every time he came to our table. Obviously, the wine list isn't at par with the level expected, showing that Susur doesn't care about wine, in addition to reversing the menu which makes it even more challenging for wine pairing or on the palate.
Next- about the food- I don't have the time to get into every detail, but out of the 18 dishes we had, about 9 were botched up. I will look at my notes and time permitting will provide more details, later. I am not the only one making a fuss about Susur's cuisine. As you recall, even Feenie thought the food there was almost a joke (am paraphrasing). I am willing to put money on a bet that Michelin inspectors would not give Susur any stars on surprise visits. That subject is actually meaningless because the Michelin rating process has not been applied to North America. I am not sure why, but I know that very few establishments would probably qualify.

Then when I hear about the guy whom Susur apparently asked what he wanted to eat next and then went inside and made the dish for him and then came out to ask how it was. I wonder if that person believes in Santa Claus as well.

Regarding Gourmet, etc., sure Susur is better than most in Toronto. And so is his marketing and PR. They are excellent because of his financial backing and connections that help.

I am not sure why you're bringing-up Gagnaire, Strasbourg's restaurants and Loiseau into this. I loved our meals at both Gagnaire and Loiseau prior to his death. Michelin stars (even 1) are earned after years of consistency. Here in North America, a chef could be hailed as a star after a couple of years of fame, whereas it might take at least five years if not ten sometimes of consistent year after year performance for a chef to be hailed accordingly, in Europe. Different standards. I am not saying that Susur is an overnight success as he has been at it for a while.
Some chefs do it for fame, others for the money, others for the love of food. I don't mind when there is a balance, but when I see an imbalance, it irritates me because I have seen many aspects of gastronomy at work for the last 25 years.

Winemike- I will avoid getting personal with you or Susur as it's not the objective of this forum, and it's not something I generally do. At least, we agree that Senses' Aprile is not as good as could be, either. I haven't been to Perigee yet, but will be curious to compare it to the rest of Toronto, soon. In the meantime, our next destinations are Le Bristol and Le Meurice and some other new places in Paris.

Is Susur doing things - well, food, things - at the level of a Keller or Trotter, Bouley or Boulud, if perhaps not as consistently in the eyes of some.

Consistency: THAT is the key!!!!!

And, although there were highs and lows in my meal there, I wouldn't describe these as hits and misses. More like highs and even higher highs.

It's a subjective matter of expectations. Susur's food is very daring and creative, almost to the point of inviting inconsistency. He is creative (but not nearly as creative as Gagnaire). Have you seen Gagnaire's latest book Sucre-Sale: the dishes are amazingly creative!

[GordonCooks]

I can only speak from personal experience - the service may be not good as places like Daniel, Le Cirque, J-G, etc. But out of the hundreds of dishes i've eaten there - I've loved all but maybe 10. I've looked at them, tasted them, dissected them, and enjoyed them. It's probably just personal taste - Some will enjoy a somewhat over the top approach and some will like a little more classical restraint.

I'd be curious if Susur was in the restaurant that night. When he is there - he looks at every dish as it leaves the kitchen. He's constantly checking the dining room looking for feedback and checking what comes back on the plates. Is Susur a top-notch ? maybe not. Is the food top notch? Yes (IMHO) Surely worth Michelin's Restaurant of Notice.

[winemike]

I am not sure why you're bringing-up Gagnaire, Strasbourg's restaurants and Loiseau into this

Well, I just wanted to say that I had visited these places a lot of times
and that Susur (just his food, forget service, wine, etc...) served food
which I think is, at least technically, in this league. And these are all 3 stars.
I also meant that Michelins can sometimes fail to deliver. And that the only
single time I had eaten at Susur, the food was great.
I am glad reading from you that you had a more negative experience,
I may have been too enthusiastic.

Michelin stars (even 1) are earned after years of consistency. Here in North America, a chef could be hailed as a star after a couple of years of fame, whereas it might take at least five years if not ten sometimes of consistent year after year performance for a chef to be hailed accordingly, in Europe. Different standards

I could not agree more with you. Consistency is the key. I did not know
Susur before I went to the place (I was in Toronto for less than 6 months),
I did not know he was a star and was really surprised with the quality of
the dishes even if his food is not my favourite style. To give you a bit of background:
I was actually told to go and visit the place as the food may be very good.
That's pretty much all I knew about the place, I had no idea of the reverse
menu, many different tastes in the dishes (sometimes, far too much for
me), etc ....
Also, if I had expected perfection, I may well have been greatly disappointed.

Anyway, Explorer, tell us about Le Meurice and Le Bristol, I have not been
to these places and would love to read your comments.
Sorry if I was too personal, I do not like that at all either. Apologies to the readers
of this forum.

Mike.

[Explorer]

I'd be curious if Susur was in the restaurant that night.

Indeed, he was. I booked, only knowing he would be there. We even spoke when he came to our table (by our request), but he wasn't really interested in "hearing" anything. He was just making an appearance.

[Pan]

I have to wonder;

If Susur's isn't doing food that would rate a Michelin star, why all the hubbub, profiles in Gourmet etc?

As I mentioned, I haven't eaten in a Michelin starred resto, but I have eaten in a NYTimes 3 star, and Susur was far and away the more memorable meal.

Which NY Times 3 star have you eaten at?

I hope you have a chance to eat in a Michelin-starred restaurant someday.

I have no opinion on Susur, as I have yet to even visit Toronto! Interesting thread, though.

[docsconz]

Susur came to our table and was very interested in what we thought - especially our then 12yo son. Susur told him how he should eat a particularly complicated but delicious dish. At the end of our meal he took us on a tour of his kitchen which was surprisingly small given the quality of the food that came out.

We certainly hit the restaurant on a great night - it is one of the most memorable meals of my life and yes I have eaten in many of the very top restaurants in the US and Europe. Perhaps the restaurant is inconsistent. I haven't eaten there enough to truly say. However, I can also say that any restaurant can have an off night as can any diner. I find that so much of a restaurant experience is dependent on the diner - expectation, mood, level of satiety prior to the meal, and any sense of being slighted. A truly great restaurant overcomes those details approximately 99% of the time, which still leaves it imperfect as it must be as a human institution. One meal may be enough to hail a restaurant as the greatest ever, but should not be enough to condemn it in the face of ovrwhelming opinion. How many threads have we seen on eGullet reflecting disappointment with heralded establishments. One relatively recent one on Martin Berasatagui comes to mind. While a bad experience may have been had there, I doubt that it is not a great restaurant. If those bad experiences come to be more common or predominate, then that opinion would likely change.

[kevin]

The issue of consistency is very subjective, particularly to an establishment such as Susur's, because he does do this French/Asian fusion some of the compositions may not be to everyone's tastes. The issue for a chef doing such food is whether the food is as he/she hoped it would be, when doing a tasting menu and particularly the reverse one that he does, do the flavours of the dishes progress in the manner that the chef wishes it to, if it does it is correct. Regardless of whether the customer gets it. I personally do not like it because it detracts from the enjoyment of wine, and I somewhat think it is "gimmicky", why else would no one try an emulate it.

In relation to the Michelin star issue, from my experience (working in as well as eating in) the first star is a "food" star the levels of service, wine lists, facilities and all the rest are not as important as they are in a 2 and 3 star. There is an expected level of professionalism, but it is not regarded the same as those places that aspire to 2nd and 3rd stars. Looking at what D. Thompson has achieved at Nahm would lead me to believe that Susur could realistically get a star, the question is would he be willing to risk his little Utopia that he has created for himself here in Toronto to go to a New York or London where he would become just another talented chef in a much deeper talent pool. I would not bother in his position why risk what you have, greed and ego are two very destructive characteristics for a chef. He doesn't strike me as someone that demonstrates much of either.

[docsconz]

Nice post, Kevin. Welcome to eGullet.

Maybe noone else does the reverse order because it would be such an obvious copy. While the order does make wine pairing more difficult, it is not impossible in the least. The order makes sense intellectually and it worked very well for me.

[kevin]

Did it work intellectually for you because you found all the courses to be very good, which obviously will skew your perception, when food is good (great) sometimes, what does it matter what order it was presented in. I guess I am a bit old school in that to me a tasting menu should follow along classical lines whether it is in the French or Japanese progression of flavours and cooking techniques. I have spoken to people that have eaten there, they all cook for a living, they did not like the way in which the meal flowed. They for the most part enjoyed the dishes they were served but for them the meals did not work because of the way the courses came to the table. Ferran Adria places great emphasis on the flow and pace of his tasting menus and with his style he certainly has greater leeway in terms of "playing" with tastes, textures and techniques. I can't help but think this was as much a way that Susur could gain press and notoriety as much as it is an intellectual approach to the tasting menu.

[docsconz]

It works intellectually because the most robust fare is served first while the appetite is still strong and then gets lighter as the appetite weakens. It really is a simple and elegant concept that worked for me with the meal I had. It is diffeent though and doesn't mesh well with some deeply engrained culinary customs mostly wine pairing and a history of progression.

[Johnathon]

I had to giggle when reading the Le Crocodile to Au Crocodile mix up, especially considering it was not too long ago when I had lunch and then dinner with the chefs from both restaurants while Chef Emile Jung was visiting Le Crocodile to celebrate Le Crocodile's 20th Anniversary. The subject of Michelin stars in Europe and the standards expected was raised many times, but this is indeed in need of another thread.

Susur provides some of the most unique and beautiful food in Canada. My first experience was the reverse menu and though I thoroughly enjoyed the experience of flavour and taste, I chose to not repeat the order the next few times I dined there. The food is on par with the best of the best of the restaurants I have dined at in terms of skill, creativity and execution. Susur is Susur. There are few realistic comparisons to make to what he is doing with taste, texture and flavour.

I would, and most certainly will, return to his dining room on my next visit to Toronto.

In respect to Michelin Star ratings for North America (and I was hoping Jeffrey Steingarten would address this from Chef Hawksworth's question to him in the Q&A), the main differences felt here is in service and the consistency thereof. ADNY excels in this area yet so many restaurants in NA fail miserably in service. There seems to be a lackadaisical and melancholy approach to so many servers. Mainly because they do not view the profession as a career of choice. How many servers do you know are "actually" actors or musicians and are just making a few bucks to fuel their "real" career?

Edited by Johnathon, 27 December 2003 - 08:04 PM.

[rgruby]

Which NY Times 3 star have you eaten at?

I hope you have a chance to eat in a Michelin-starred restaurant someday.

I ate at Patria - another place where the f-word could be used. I was there the last week in September. I understand the chef is opening up a new place - or had just opened up a new place close to when I visited. I have no idea if the food there (Patria) suffered for this. I did post a question here as to whether Patria was still a good place to eat, and no one dissuaded me!

I must say I do tend to favour fusion, and/or asian influenced places. Well, middle eastern, north african too. Straight French or Ital interests me less- perhaps because I've never really delved into the higher end places of either cuisine, either at home or on my travels to, well, France and Italy (and Spain and ...). So, there's my personal bias and limitations of my palate and experiences involved here as well.

About Patria - a good meal, the first course, a serving of 4 different ceviches, sticks in my mind. My wife and I both had the tasting menu. So does the cheese course, because I found the cheeses really uninteresting. I'm not really an expert on this either - very much NOT an expert, but all the cheeses were firm to hard (no, runny stinky cheeses) and fairly mild. Nothing that would offend anybody. But I was also tired after walking around a goodly portion of Manhattan below Canal, so that may have affected my enthusiasm, or lack thereof, by the end of the meal and a very long day. And, I was only there once. And, I did enjoy my meal - but I don't feel it was in the same league as any of my three visits to Susur.

Re: eating at a Michelin starred place - I hope to rectify that soon. I'll be in Europe, most likely Italy, for most or all of the summer, and eating in Michelin starred places is going to happen. Not sure in Italy - hoping to get to France and Spain as well, and possibly the UK, but we'll see. (Ooh, that's another question - I'm going to be there by myself - can one eat solo in such places and with the wardrobe I intend to bring (I travel really light - backpack light - no tie, no jacket, nice-ish pants and shirt?).

And just a note on the Susur/ Michelin star thing. I raised this as an issue partly because I've never eaten at an M starred place and wondered if Susur's food measured up. Part of this was my belief was there was no way it couldn't, given my meals there. Apparently some agree, some disagree. Still, far above the other spendy meals I've had here and elsewhere. I know service, ambience, chandeliers, crystal, cheese courses/carts and a bazillion other factors (wine lists / pairing with the food etc.) influence the Michelin star rating system. Susur may suffer in many of these areas. I kind of like the slightly funky vibe of the place though.

OK, I'll leave it at that - I don't know that it's time yet for another discussion of whether Michelin should do North america and who would rate.

So, I wish you all a happy holiday season, and better eating (and cooking if that's your thing) in the new year.

Cheers,
Geoff Ruby

[Pan]

Geoff, I've never been to Patria, so I have nothing to say about the place.

I don't favor fusion, but that's neither here nor there.

I brought my recital dress (gray suit, white button-down shirt, tie, formal shoes) with me to France in the summer of 2002 for the specific purpose of wearing it for formal dinners, but that was my choice. As long as you wear semi-formal clothing (neat pants and button-down shirt, no sneakers), you should be fine. Do keep in mind, however, that some of those rooms are airconditioned to a level that makes wearing a jacket comfortable and that you might be a bit cold not wearing one, or a sweater.

[GordonCooks]

I'd be curious if Susur was in the restaurant that night.

Indeed, he was. I booked, only knowing he would be there. We even spoke when he came to our table (by our request), but he wasn't really interested in "hearing" anything. He was just making an appearance.

Sorry to hear Susur is not your cup of green tea. Any Toronto faves ?

[Schneier]

I had dinner earlier this week at Susur.

Susur is probably Toronto's most interesting restaurant. Chef Susur Lee cooks creative Asian-French fusion cuisine, and is known for beautiful presentations. It's the one Toronto restaurant I was most interested in trying.

The restaurant is muted white, with long clear lines. White walls, white cielings, white tablecloths, white chairs. The dark floors and small decorations are pretty accents, and the whole room feels serene.

Unfortunately, it's also noisy when crowded. But when the room is empty, the feeling is serene and simple.

Which is in stark contrast to the food.

The food is complicated. Every course has a huge number of ingredients, and they're put together in interesting ways. Some courses are compilations of smaller dishes, arranged artfully on the plate. Everything is arranged artfully on the plate. Some of the plates are so beautiful you don't want to mess it up by eating it. But eating is the point, and thankfully the food doesn't fall over itself. With very few exceptions, the complicated dishes worked well. I really enjoyed my meal here.

There are dishes you can order a la carte, but the real deal are the tasting menus. There is a three-course menu, a five-course menu, and a seven-course menu. The waiter explains that they can be tailored to individual tastes and allergies, although the menu warns that people with allergies may have problems with the menus.

The menus are also served in reverse order, with the heavy meat first and moving backwards towards the lighter dishes. I don't know what I think of that. And here I am writing this up, almost 24 hours after the meal, and I STILL don't know what I think of it. It's interesting. It makes wine pairings harder. But I'm not sure.

We didn't order wine.

And, of course, we ordered the seven-course menu.

But wait! There's more! They don't have one menu, they have two. And they send out one of each for the two of us, allowing us to try both. Of course we switched plates in the middle, which means that the number of different dishes we would try became fourteen.

I liked this place already.

(A note on the notes: I tried taking notes, I really did. I did okay for the first few courses, but there were just too many ingredients. I gave up about halfway through. The waiter was nice enough to write our menu down after the meal, and anything in quotes is from that piece of paper.)

Amuse Bouche:

A celery root blini, topped with lobster salad and Oestra caviar.

A tuna crisp with saffron aoli and a dill pickle.

Both were intersting and tasty, and a nice portent of things to come.

First Course:

"Smoked squab with a spicy barbecue sauce."

This was the only questionable dish, so it was probably best to get it out of the way early. The squab was perfectly cooked, and delicious. It was served with mashed potato and a corn compote, both of which were fine. The harcot vert and rhubarb bundle wrapped in bacon was pretty. But the barbeque sauce was out of place. It didn't work. It didn't tie the dish together. it jarred.

"Smoked beef filet tenderloin topped with a porcini and bone marrow crust. Back olive and artichoke Stilton sauces."

Much better. There were three sauces on the plate: the black olive sauce, the artichoke sauce, and a tomato puree. They blended beautifully, and were delicious. There was also a potato cake thingy.

Second Course:

"Soy marinated foie gras terrine with a fresh fig and port aspic. Foie gras bavarois with a black currant preserve."

This was the cold foie gras course. The figs worked perfectly with the foie gras. The black currant did, too. It was also the prettiest presentation of the night.

"Squab ballantine, ball of duck confit, and seared foie gras. Flavors: green onion, lemongrass, tamarind, and mango-saffron."

This was the cold foie gras course. It was really three things: the seared foie gras with a slice of tamerillo, the hot squab ballantine, and the ball of duck confit wrapped in, I think, leek. The "flavors" above were four parallel stripes of sauce. It was the second prettiest presentation of the night, and also very good.

Third Course:

"Wuxi pork with a pork braise sauce, roasted pear with apricot puree."

My notes started petering out right about here, and I don't remember what else was in the dish that didn't get written down by the waiter. It was a good dish, though. Not great, but good.

"Ham with a tamarind sauce, marinated endive salad."

It was a piece of braised ham, a piece of cooked endive, and a very interesting daikon cake wrapped in tofu skin. It was only an okay dish.

Fourth Course:

"Hamachi salad with rice crisp vermicelli, julienne carrots, diakon, and cucumber, salted plum and ginger dressing.

This dish was fantastic. It was cold and light and crunchy and refreshing, just about the best palate cleanser you could ask for.

"Marinated citrus sable fish with citrus segments and an herb infused oil, topped with a squid ink crisp."

Another good dish. Ignore the "squid ink crisp"; it was a tastless black noodle. But the sable was perfectly cooked, and the dish worked really well.

Fifth Course:

"Oxtail ravioli with a smoked oyster and truffle sauce, shaved black truffles."

"Shrimp flan with lobster, pink peppercorn lobster bisque."

Both were very tasty. I remember the lobster being rich and flavorful, and the oyster being huge. The black truffle worked well with the dish, which I didn't expect.

Sixth Course:

"Tomato consomme with tapioca and lemongrass."

I thought the tapioca was more for show than for flavor, but the soup was delicious. It was hot and light, and the lemongrass gave it the slightest of kick. And it was the only course we didn't have to divide in half so we could swap plates in the middle.

Seventh Course:

This was dessert. It wasn't written down, so I'll try to work from memory. The two plates each had four things on them. The passion fruit flan was the absolute winner. The liquid chocolate cake--I know, I know--was second. The banana tiramisu was also delicious. There was another chocolate-cake-like thingy that was okay, and another flan topped with whipped cream that wasn't any better. There was also a gooseberry dipped in something, and a chocolate truffle.

We were full, anyway.

The bill came in at $125 per person--and that's Candian. A fantastic deal, I thought.

Bruce

Edited by Schneier, 20 February 2004 - 09:49 PM.

[Marlene]

Beautiful review. Thanks for sharing it with us Have you eaten in any of Toronto's other fine dining establishments? If so, how did Susur's compare?

Edited by Marlene, 20 February 2004 - 08:45 PM.

[Schneier]

Beautiful review. Thanks for sharing it with us Have you eaten in any of Toronto's other fine dining establishments? If so, how did Susur's compare?

I've been to Opus (many years ago), North 44, and Scaramouche. Susur is the best meal I've ever eaten in Toronto.

Bruce

[merlin]

Thanks for the review Bruce.

Just reading the Globe & Mail article on the dinner Susur Lee and David Hawksworth put on at West in Vancouver a few days ago. A couple of the courses sound like what you had.

Alexandra Gill observed:

"Susur Lee's oyster with braised oxtail ravioli and black truffle sauce. The fragrant black truffle sauce elicited moans of delight, but confused guests who were unfamiliar with the nuances of Susur's style. It was the most robust dish of the night, and served for the third course"

-and-

"And while Lee came across as more complex culinary artist, his honey-marinated sablefish served on a bed of spiced citrus slices had a mixed response."

I had not heard much of Susur Lee until I read an article about him in Gourmet some time ago which made me so ravenous that I wanted to hop a plane and head to TO. Some day soon I hope. Your description reinforces that urge.