11 replies to this topic

[weinoo]

A long time ago I started a topic called Tired of the Alice Waters Backlash..., that sure brought out people's varied opinions.

I've always been a fan of Alice, her didacticism and sometimes holier than thou-edness notwithstanding.

And I guess I'm not the only one - especially amongst the professional field. As Jonathan Waxman says in an Eater interview, when asked about certain people mocking Alice:

I adore Alice, because she has never changed her tune. She never wavered. I think for a lot of chefs, unless you're touched by that, it's very difficult to understand it.... There's a reason why Chez Panisse has been there since 1971. It has staying power and resonates with people. How many restaurants are like that?

In a lot of ways, Alice has become more of an icon than a chef. You know, I saw Julie and Julia and went up to Nora Ephron and thanked her for bringing Julia back to life. What I really meant is that I like to have Julia with me all the time, I like to have Alice with me all the time, and I like to have Jacques Pepin with me all the time. They touch you all the time. Are they the most current? No, but that doesn't mean anything.

It's certainly nice to see a respected professional offer an opinion about this, because it seems like most of the disrespect comes from those who, ummm, don't really know as much. But they're certainly not afraid to offer their opinions. And Bourdain - well, he's just out to make a buck, no?

So, what do you all think now?

[gfweb]

I only know her by what she says in the media and what I've read. She seems self-righteous and a preachy pain in the ass. Having Waxman's food knowledge isn't required to detect a pest.

By Waxman's standard, success and "never changing her tune" are reasons for affection. OK. If that's his metric, how's he feel about Donald Trump? (FWIW I find him entertaining).

[weinoo]

Oh, please. I think you're grasping at straws. She is self-righteous and preachy - but that's not the point.

And Trump didn't change the way business is done the way AW changed the way food is understood in the US; he's just a big ahole in a world of aholes.

[Crouton]

Completely off topic here but I don't think Alice Waters is well known outside of those who read forums about food. Everyone knows who Julia is.... lots know who Pepin is, or at least have heard his name. So I don't think it really matters what the opinion is of Alice Waters... I don't see her "going down in history" outside of a few archived internet discussion boards or perhaps a name of some foundation.

[gfweb]

Oh, please. I think you're grasping at straws. She is self-righteous and preachy - but that's not the point.

And Trump didn't change the way business is done the way AW changed the way food is understood in the US; he's just a big ahole in a world of aholes.

For me her attitude is exactly the point.

I'd never say that you had to agree with me.

[rancho_gordo]

So maybe some don't like the messenger but surely the message of good, real food must ring true for anyone bothering to read a food board. You may not like her delivery (or I suspect, her aesthetic) but you have to believe that she's sincere and trying to do the right thing. And she's influenced a lot of people in a positive way.

[weinoo]

So maybe some don't like the messenger but surely the message of good, real food must ring true for anyone bothering to read a food board. You may not like her delivery (or I suspect, her aesthetic) but you have to believe that she's sincere and trying to do the right thing. And she's influenced a lot of people in a positive way.

My point exactly, Steve.

[Dakki]

As one of those people who don't really know as much I'll reserve my opinion on Ms. Waters, but reading gfweb's post I thought The Alice would make a fantastic nickname for her.

[SylviaLovegren]

I remember what American cooking was like before Alice. We used to have only frozen salmon available in restaurants...in SEATTLE! And I went to the fanciest restaurant in town for a big event and ordered espresso afterwards -- the waiter asked if extra strong instant Sanka would do. She'll helped change those things. I'll be forever grateful to her for the direct effect she had on the quality of my life, not to mention that of most of the continent!, attitude or no attitude.

[Eastgate]

People should also keep in mind the generations of cooks that Alice Waters trained and promoted. Especially female cooks who, before Chez Panisse, were rare in the US snd even more rare in Europe. Add to that the role of Panisse in getting BayArea artisanal foods going, and you've got a legacy for the ages -- never mind the nay-sayers.

[heidih]

People should also keep in mind the generations of cooks that Alice Waters trained and promoted. Especially female cooks who, before Chez Panisse, were rare in the US snd even more rare in Europe. Add to that the role of Panisse in getting BayArea artisanal foods going, and you've got a legacy for the ages -- never mind the nay-sayers.

Indeed - treasures like David Lebovitz

[andiesenji]

The only time I met her was way back in the early to mid '70s, when I attended a conference for women writers with a friend whose original partner for the trip had backed out at the last minute and I was willing to make the drive and hang out. A bunch of us went to a late lunch at Chez Panisse - It had only been open for a couple of years at the time. She was very gracious, chatted with us and introduced us to "another writer" that she introduced as "Mary Francis" and which only later I realized was MFK Fisher (who had also been at the conference). I was impressed with the food, the philosophy and the enthusiasm for fresh, locally produced foods.

I guess I did write about it in the post weinoo started in '09.

I wrote: Posted 22 April 2009 - 12:33 PM
"I have long been appalled at the "trashing" of Alice Waters by people who should know better, but the fact that they say or write these things, shows that they haven't a clue, much less good manners.

I first visited her restaurant back in the mid '70s, not a long time after it had opened and my friends and I were impressed. (A group of women attending a writers conference for women in Berkeley.)

She has been generous with her time in advising and helping the Berkeley school system to greatly improve the food served in the school cafeterias, resulting in much healthier children.

My daughter and a group of her students, who are participants in the Jefferson awards program attempting to improve the school cafeteria offerings in the Livermore school system, were invited to meet with her last month and were treated with courtesy and given a significant amount of her time and a great deal of help.

Incidentally, they won the top award for the State of California and will be going to D.C. for the national competition in June.

This fact alone, that she is not just hyping the use of fresh, locally grown foods, for her own profit, but for the betterment of her community and others, is enough to convince me that she is doing it right.
Anyone who thinks differently is either unable to comprehend the importance of her contributions or DOESN'T want to believe because they want to sell their articles."

Nothing in the past three years has caused me to change my mind.

Edited by andiesenji, 10 July 2012 - 08:57 PM.