44 replies to this topic

[Chris Hill]

Something you often see in recipes for stewing dishes is that you should leave it overnight for a better flavour (for example, it's mentioned in this chilli recipe I just used: http://www.guardian....hilli-con-carne).

In my household it's taken as a matter of fact, and instinctively feels true. But is really? Has anyone actually put this statement to some scientific rigour? I've had a dig around this site, Googled around a bit, flicked through McGee's book, had a butcher's at Modernist Cuisine, yet can't find any concrete information. I'm constantly reading statements like "it allows the flavours to mingle" which is just meaningless, and makes me think this is just one of those cooking fallacies like "sealing meat". For example, in "Meat" Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall says (in addition to repeating the seemingly meaningless "mingling" statement) that the cooling "settles the texture of the meat giving it a chance to re-absorb the liquid", but I understand resting meat to be more about letting the juices gel a little and to help prevent further moisture loss on carving, and that "re-absorbing moisture" is not something that is physically possible.

Personally I suspect it might simply be down to the re-heating process causing further reduction, thus concentrating the flavour a little more, and nothing more to it than that. But I would love to know firstly whether there's been any testing done in this area to prove whether this is fact or fallacy, and if fact what the scientific reason for this phenomena is. Any ideas?

[Hassouni]

"Does leaving a stew overnight really improve the flavour?"

I dunno the science behind it but HELL YES it does! Especially chili or anything with tomatoes (Iraqi stews are prime candidates for aging, as it were).

Somewhere, possibly on Good Eats, or possibly in article by Kenji on Serious Eats, it was recommended braised meat be cooled overnight and gently reheated before serving. Something sort of along the lines of what you said here:

"settles the texture of the meat giving it a chance to re-absorb the liquid", but I understand resting meat to be more about letting the juices gel a little and to help prevent further moisture loss on carving."

[HowardLi]

I think one of the reasons why cooling overnight is sometimes recommended is because if you serve right away, the pieces of meat fall apart. IIRC the time while cold helps the meat restabilize?

[David A. Goldfarb]

I can't say why, but it invariably seems to be the case that cooling thoroughly and reheating improves a stew or braised dish, even compared to just cooking longer and slower. It also makes it easier to skim the fat. A little fat is okay, but too much feels greasy.

[Dakki]

I dunno the science behind it but HELL YES it does!

QFT. I can't say why but flavors and texture are both better the next day, and by a pretty wide margin.

(Don't know if these are technically stews, talking about meats cooked in various sauces here).

[mskerr]

YES.

[ChrisZ]

I think that some of it is psychological, to do with the way that cooking something for a long time fills your kitchen/house with its aroma, and you become accustomed to it - just like the way you can't smell your own cologne/perfume. Eating the same meal that you have been smelling for hours will not have the same level of impact as eating the meal in an environment that smells neutral. So if you reheat a meal a few hours or days after the smell has dissipated then it tastes more intense. That's my theory, anyway...

[Jenni]

I think I am one of the only people who absolutely HATES leftovers! Everyone else I know raves about how things taste better the next day, but I just don't feel the same way. Sure, it tastes different to me, just not better! I hate the idea of stale food and feel that there is a certain "leftover taste" in such dishes which I dislike. I am sure it is all completely psychological!

For what it's worth, there are dishes I make that I think benefit from sitting for an hour or so, but I don't like to eat things that have been sat around for a day. On the other hand, I love love love pickles (Indian style pickles I mean) and often age mine for a very long time, so I don't know how that fits in with my particular variety of crazy!

[Mjx]

I think I am one of the only people who absolutely HATES leftovers! Everyone else I know raves about how things taste better the next day, but I just don't feel the same way. Sure, it tastes different to me, just not better! I hate the idea of stale food and feel that there is a certain "leftover taste" in such dishes which I dislike. I am sure it is all completely psychological!

For what it's worth, there are dishes I make that I think benefit from sitting for an hour or so, but I don't like to eat things that have been sat around for a day. On the other hand, I love love love pickles (Indian style pickles I mean) and often age mine for a very long time, so I don't know how that fits in with my particular variety of crazy!

Physics and chemistry are at work here, not just psychology! I recall reading in one of the ATK publications that flavour-bearing molecules migrate about in food, so (for example) that browning the crust of a loaf of bread will impact the flavour of the interior; oxidising and other chemical processes also alter flavour.

I usually make two days' worth of stews and such, because although it's good on the first day, on the second day, the flavour tends to be better balanced, more seamless.

[Jenni]

<p>

Physics and chemistry are at work here, not just psychology!

My comment about it being psychological was a little jab at myself - I was mocking my tendency to feel "icky" about leftovers! I am sure that there are indeed scientifically explainable changes that happen on a chemical level in leftover food.

[Katie Meadow]

Making a blanket yes or no statement about stews being better the day of or the day after seems senseless. What kind of stews are we talking about? Some meaty stews or braised dishes like briskets, coq au vin various types of slow cooked shanks hold up really well and often seem better the next day. For me that is the result of ingredients that only gain from resting and the fact that often the next day means a labor-free opportunity to simply appreciate what I made without a lot of prep work or clean-up.

Things I find less appealing the next day are soups or stews that include rice or noodles and delicate vegetables, soupy bean-pot dishes that tend to thicken up, or anything that tends to suffer in textural quality after sitting around. Generally if I don't love leftovers at least I appreciate them; the exception is any dish made with fish or shellfish. Seafood risks getting overcooked just sitting for an hour in the stew-pot and definitely underwhelms after suffering overnight in the fridge.

[Beebs]

Definately yes for meaty types, especially braises with beef. The meat is so much more tender and delicious after sitting a day or two. It tastes dry if you eat it right away.

[Jenni]

This is interesting and may be confirming a suspicion that I have....the "leftovers are better" rule seems to apply most of all to meat dishes? So as a vegetarian, there may be some logic in my hatred of leftovers?!

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Jenni - absolutely. The only veggie dish I've ever had that was better on the reheat was a braised eggplant thing, and it wasn't too spectacular in the first place....

(edit - good splellar!)

Edited by Panaderia Canadiense, 11 June 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Mjx]

This is interesting and may be confirming a suspicion that I have....the "leftovers are better" rule seems to apply most of all to meat dishes? So as a vegetarian, there may be some logic in my hatred of leftovers?!

Actually, I've found that legumes seem to hold up quite nicely.

[Jason Perlow]

Beef Bourgignon is definitely better on the next day. I don't know why but it just is. So are Ashkenazi Jewish stews such as briskets and the like.

[pbear]

I think that some of it is psychological, to do with the way that cooking something for a long time fills your kitchen/house with its aroma, and you become accustomed to it - just like the way you can't smell your own cologne/perfume. Eating the same meal that you have been smelling for hours will not have the same level of impact as eating the meal in an environment that smells neutral. So if you reheat a meal a few hours or days after the smell has dissipated then it tastes more intense. That's my theory, anyway...

There's definitely a mellowing process with some dishes, especially spicy ones, but I think the environmental factor mentioned here is generally the larger factor. In fact, someting along these lines is what I came into the thread to post.

[naguere]

I think reheating does make a stew or curry more flavoursome .My top tip though

is on the day of consumption, stir through a finely chopped raw tomato and a repeat of

the kind of fresh herbs you used in it's initial construction.

All that flavour and a fresh taste.

[Edward J]

I think everyone here has made the mistake of putting a raw onion next to a block of butter in the fridge, or next to eggs, or mild cheese. Heck I had an Aunt who would send us chocolates that had a distinct aroma of "Chanel #5", she must have kept the chocoaltes in a drawer next to her perfume

Eveyone knows that the fat from the stocks has a lot of flavour

What I'm striving to say is that fats absorb odours and flavours. We can use this to our advantage--using the fat from stocks to sweat our soup vegies with, "marinating" butter with aromatics a day or two before hand before making, say fruit cake, storing truffles in a jar with butter cubes....

Well, that's my version of "Science"....

[Justin Pinkney]

I think that some of it is psychological, to do with the way that cooking something for a long time fills your kitchen/house with its aroma, and you become accustomed to it - just like the way you can't smell your own cologne/perfume. Eating the same meal that you have been smelling for hours will not have the same level of impact as eating the meal in an environment that smells neutral. So if you reheat a meal a few hours or days after the smell has dissipated then it tastes more intense. That's my theory, anyway...

I like this answer. Some time ago on twitter I remember reading someone speculating that maybe it tastes better because you have to put less effort in to get something tasty. Clearly the stew left for 24 hours will have undergone some changes, and it sure seems to me that often the flavour improves. Still, it's probably hard to pin down to a particular effect, and to show that it really is a genuine effect probably requires more stew, time and willing participants than most people have access to.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

This is interesting and may be confirming a suspicion that I have....the "leftovers are better" rule seems to apply most of all to meat dishes? So as a vegetarian, there may be some logic in my hatred of leftovers?!

Hmm. Last night I put some reheated leftover curried zucchini (just sauteed grated zucchini deglazed with creme fraiche with a good dose of curry powder) over pasta and it was incredible. The first round was good, but this was lovely.

[Edward J]

I'll repeat myself: Fats absorb odours, as well as flavours. If there is fats or oils in the sauce and/or meat, they will take on the surrounding flavour .

[catdaddy]

Allowing a pot of chili or stew or a braised brisket to cool and age overnight certainly makes it better. As with many foods a little fermentation adds new and evolved flavors. Given the average home fridge's ability (or lack thereof) to quickly cool hot things, I wonder if a little microbe activity improves things.

[Chris Hill]

Very interesting point Edward J, I hadn't really thought about it like that, and does perhaps suggest there's more to the "flavours mingle" thing that I was giving credit for.

[Justin Pinkney]

I'll repeat myself: Fats absorb odours, as well as flavours. If there is fats or oils in the sauce and/or meat, they will take on the surrounding flavour .

Sure, but over what timescale (and temperature) does this occur? Are there significantly more fat soluble molecules dissolved in the fats after overnight resting, and what about the same for the water component? If it really is the reason for improved flavour then can the effect be reproduced by simmering for longer? At what point do you reach equilibrium?

[Shalmanese]

Allowing a pot of chili or stew or a braised brisket to cool and age overnight certainly makes it better. As with many foods a little fermentation adds new and evolved flavors. Given the average home fridge's ability (or lack thereof) to quickly cool hot things, I wonder if a little microbe activity improves things.

I very much doubt it, the average stew is pretty much sterile at the end of cooking and any newly introduce microbes don't have enough time to get established enough to proceed with fermentation.

[DTBarton]

Any soup/stew/braised dish that combines multiple ingredients improves with some age. The flavors marry and the dish becomes much more finely integrated. If I have the time, I'll cook a multiple ingredient dish to be served the same day as early as I can as it benefits greatly from resting for several hours before serving. If the dish has noodles or beans and gets a little thick, just add some broth and reheat gently.

[Edward J]

I'll repeat myself: Fats absorb odours, as well as flavours. If there is fats or oils in the sauce and/or meat, they will take on the surrounding flavour .

Sure, but over what timescale (and temperature) does this occur? Are there significantly more fat soluble molecules dissolved in the fats after overnight resting, and what about the same for the water component? If it really is the reason for improved flavour then can the effect be reproduced by simmering for longer? At what point do you reach equilibrium?

No real tempertaure zone. Surely you must have noticed that when you put a block of unwrapped butter in the fridge next to a raw onion, it takes on odours?.

Don't understand about fat soluable molecules dissolved in..whatever. There is fat in the meat, there is fat in the sacue (roux, other oils or fats). The fats take on the flavours and odours of the surrounding ingredients.

Kind of like a fruitcake, tastes better after a week or so; the butter and eggs have taken in the surrounding flavours.

Don't think simmering will reproduce this effect--just time. Well, O.K. you can simmer for a great length of time,but at a certain point you will destroy the texture of the ingredients and flat-line the sauce.

[CDRFloppingham]

Any soup/stew/braised dish that combines multiple ingredients improves with some age. The flavors marry and the dish becomes much more finely integrated. If I have the time, I'll cook a multiple ingredient dish to be served the same day as early as I can as it benefits greatly from resting for several hours before serving. If the dish has noodles or beans and gets a little thick, just add some broth and reheat gently.

In the world of science (the 21st Century world), declaring someting to be true is not enough to be accepted as true. On the internet, such a declaration is less accepted as truth.

[Edward J]

Probably......

I don't claim to be a scientist--never made past Gr. 12 chemistry, never read Alton Brown, and never even stayed in a Holiday Inn, but ....

I apply what I do know, to cooking and baking.

Now, take for instance gravity:

I've never seen an apple drop from a tree, or thrown stuff off the tower of Pizza, but I know gravity. In baking-- for instance, baking a blind 9" single crust shell, I can either fight gravity, or use it to my advantage. To fight it, I can line out a 9" pie pan with dough, place a coffee filter in it, and load it up with beans or weights and hope for the best. Gravity will pull the dough down to the hieght of the beans, or even lower, so I have to compensate with higher wall pie pans or more beans.

To use gravity to my advantage, I take the same lined 9" tin, stick an other tin on top of it (so the dough is "sandwiched" between the two tins), invert the assembly on a tray, and bake it. I let gravity do it's thing and pull the crust down.while baking. When cool, I flip over the assembly, remove the first one, and get a perfect baked crust with minimal--if any--shrinkage.
Thus endeth my flirtation with gravity.

With flavour, I use the same techniques.

I know fat is a flavour (and colour, and odour) absorber. l use this to my advantage.

Now, I do know that some vitamins are water soluable and some are fat soluable. I know some chemicals are water soluable, some alcohol soluable, some Ether soluable, etc.

I know that every recipie for vanilla icecream or vanilla custard, vanilla sacue, etc. tells me to "ripen" the mix ovenight. I know that vanilla custard contains milk and cream, both of which contain milk fat. I know that egg yolks contain fat. I know that the vanilla bean's flavour is both fat souable and alcohol suluable.

I know that, according to Escoffier, the best fat for sauting/sweating soup vegetables is "boullion fat", or the fat that is skimmed off stocks. I know for a fact that this fat carries a lot of flavour from it's ingredients. I know that many "ethnic" recipies include the use of Schmaltz or rendered down animal fat, which carries a tremedous amount of flavour.

I know that many Chefs store their truffles in a tighlty sealed jar with cubed butter, (see J. Peterson, "Sauces") I know for a fact that this butter, after a minimum of 12 hours, positively reeks of truffle.

I know that compound butters (Cafe de Paris, Maitre D', etc) have much more flavour if allowed to rest at least 12 hours. I know that butter contains at least 822% milk fat.

I know that when making ganaches and flavoured chocolate, if I infuse, say, spices, with warm cocoa butter overnight and fliter out the spices (theoritically it's sawdust) my cocoa butter is intensly flavoured and can be combined with couverture, giving my chocolate a strong flvour with no "contaimation" of foreign matter.

I know that if I peel an orange, or lemon, or grapefruit and spray myself, what I have sprayed myself with is not juice, but the volatile oils from directly under the skin of the fruit, and very hard to remove from my skin. I smell like oranges for the whole day....

I know that many food manufactures use distilled oils rather than compounds or flavourings in quality foods. I.E. peppermint oil, citrus oils, or, in the case of Coca-cola, numeg oil.

But what I don't have is scientific mumbo-jumbo to say the same thing, other than, Fats absorb flavours,