13 replies to this topic

[Shalmanese]

I remember starting from around 2 years ago, I started having real problems caramelizing onions. At first, I attributed it to technique error but I'm increasingly suspecting that the problem may be due to the ingredients.

I remember very clearly that with the onions I used to buy, you would throw them in the pan, they would sizzle for about a minute and then they would soften and shed an enormous amount of liquid into the pan. With enough onions, it would almost look like onion soup. The liquid would be efficient at deglazing anything left in the pan which meant you never had to worry about burning. You would let it cook for a bit longer, and the liquid would evaporate and the onions started browning evening in a glossy coating of fat, onion sugars.

Now, it seems I throw onions in a pan, they exude a tiny bit of liquid which evaporates before the onions have even fully softened and it becomes a challenge to brown them well. Little bits of onion stick to the pan bottom and there's not enough liquid to detach them so they burn before the other parts get good color. I've tried more salt, less salt, white onions, yellow onions, red onions, butter, olive oil, everything I can think of.

Has anyone else noticed the recent changes in onion moisture or am I delusional?

[Mjx]

Have you tried putting a lid on the pan for the first 5 to 10 minutes?

I haven't noticed onions being less wet (but I'm in a completely different part of the world, and probably using onions from a different source), but to make the most of whatever moisture does come out of the onions when I caramelize them, I put a lid on the pan until the exuded moisture has accumulated a bit, otherwise, since the amount of onion in direct contact with the pan is initially not that large, a lot of the moisture just evaporates off as it is exuded, instead of accumulating.

[thirtyoneknots]

The lid is a good idea. Have you observed this using onions from a variety of stores, at different times of year?

I notice significant seasonal changes in onion quality (and sometimes price) but nothing like you describe consistently over 2 years.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I'm with MJX - lid! Otherwise, screaming hot pan and oil, cold onions, will also do the trick (and rather quickly, last time I did it this way for crispy caramelized).

Also in another part of the world, but I haven't noticed any lack of moisture in my onions (in fact, I sometimes get the kind that weep copious amounts of oniony liquid when I cut them - these are awesome for the kind of caramelization you're talking about.) I haven't noticed a seasonal difference, either, but then again the parts of the country where onions are grown don't really have well-marked seasons, just a sort of eternal springtime.

[KennethT]

I'll sometimes add a little water to the onions to get them going... The water helps the onions cook through and soften before browning. I guess a lid would do the same thing, but sometimes I'm lazy and don't feel like clean something else...

[Shel_B]

... I sometimes get the kind that weep copious amounts of oniony liquid when I cut them - these are awesome for the kind of caramelization you're talking about ...

I caramelized onions a few times a year, and have never paid much attention to the amount of liquid they exude - maybe because the onions have all been moist enough. This thread has got me thinking about the moisture content. Is there some way of knowing how moist or dry the onions are when purchased, before cutting them? Mostly I use what are often called "storage onions." Will the age of the onion effect the moisture content? Which might be more most, young or old onions?

[gfweb]

I haven't had weeping onions in years. My eyes usually do the weeping around onions.

What I have seen is a higher number of bad yellow onions in the past year.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

... I sometimes get the kind that weep copious amounts of oniony liquid when I cut them - these are awesome for the kind of caramelization you're talking about ...

I caramelized onions a few times a year, and have never paid much attention to the amount of liquid they exude - maybe because the onions have all been moist enough. This thread has got me thinking about the moisture content. Is there some way of knowing how moist or dry the onions are when purchased, before cutting them? Mostly I use what are often called "storage onions." Will the age of the onion effect the moisture content? Which might be more most, young or old onions?

I suspect that age, but more specifically how long the onions have been held since harvest, will affect how much moisture there is in each bulb. Kind of the same way that a carrot fresh out of the soil will always be crunchier and juicier than one that's been held in the root cellar all winter. Ah, floopy March carrots....

I've had weeping onions that were what you'd consider "new" (very small bulb size, almost pearls) as well as what you'd think were "old" (huge big bulbs), but in all cases I'm willing to bet that the granny I bought them from had pulled them up the previous evening in preparation for market day. If you're using "storage onions" then they're almost guaranteed to be drier than that, since they've been held for an undefined (but I'd assume longish) period of time. Worse if they're supermarket onions, because then who knows how they were treated, transported, held, and whatnot from the point of harvest. So I suppose what I'm saying here is that the freshest possible onions, regardless of their age (in terms of time from seed to harvest) are most likely the juiciest.

ETA - the best test I've figured to gauge the age of an onion without cutting it is simply to heft it a little. The freshest onions seem a little heavy for their size, and of course with all things being relative this does take a bit of time to figure out. I've been hefting onions for about a decade, so I have an idea of what an old one weighs when compared to a fresh one of similar size.

Edited by Panaderia Canadiense, 08 May 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Kouign Aman]

I've been hefting onions for about a decade

this seems made to be a tag line.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

And here I thought the tagline in that post was "Ah, floopy March carrots...."

[pyrguy]

What I have seen is a higher number of bad yellow onions in the past year.

Me too. I stopped buying more than two or three at the time. Any more than that and they go bad. A large number of them are bad in the grocery. Potatoes are starting to be the same, a large number with internal bad spots. I usually bake smaller potatoes. But I've taken to baking twice the number I plan to serve just incase.

[scott123]

The moisture in onions hasn't really changed much in recent years. It fluctuates depending on the age of the crop/time of the year, but it's always fluctuated. What has changed, though, is the texture of the onion and the ability to caramelize them. Within the last 5 years, yellow onions have started getting a lot tougher (and far less flavorful). I can only assume that growers have shifted in this direction due to longevity and shipping benefits (softer onions rot faster). Sometimes you get a tender onion that caramelizes easily, but many times you'll get an onion with thin, tough layers that are both harder to cut and harder to soften without uneven/excessive browning.

It's taken me probably a thousand pounds of onions to come to fully understand how to best caramelize them. Here's what I've figured out.

1. Don't be stingy with the oil. I used to be able to caramelize 1 large onion in 1 T. of oil. Not anymore. These days, it takes at least 2 T. per large onion. For three lbs. onions, I use 150 g. oil. The more oil you use, the easier onions are to caramelize.

2. Listen. There is no magic temperature where onions caramelize best. As you've already experienced, a great deal of their water is released at the beginning, so you'll generally want to start on a high heat to drive that off (unless you're working with a very thin layer). If you listen carefully, you'll hear exactly the point where the water is mostly driven off and the sizzling becomes more intense. At that very second, the heat has to be lowered, or you'll get the dreaded burning. Don't lower it too much, though. Onions lose a lot of moisture at the onset, but they'll always be losing some moisture beyond that initial phase and if you drop the temp too much, they boil. Too low of a temperature also increases the risk that the onion never softens. One used to be able to 'sweat' an onion on a very low temp for hours and come up with the perfect caramelized onion, but, with these newer harder onions, that process is a thing of the past.

3. Don't crowd the pan. If the layer is too thin, you can always turn down the heat, but if the layer is too thick, and the onions start boiling in their own juices, it's impossible to extract the water. Contrary to countless online recipes, *cough* serious eats *cough* a boiled onion is not a caramelized onion.


This is all a huge pain in the butt, and, to really do it properly, it takes at least 2 hours, and, unfortunately, until you make a lot of them, they tend to require pretty diligent supervision. At the end of the day, though, there's few better flavors on this planet. You want the best lasagna? Caramelize onions and add them to the sauce. The best Chili? The best meatloaf? The best pierogies? Take the time and go through the trouble.

Edit: Re; salt. In theory, salt should break down the walls of the onions membranes and allow it release more water/soften/caramelize faster, but, in my experiments, I have not found this to be the case. I think it's probably better to leave the salt to the final dish.

Edited by scott123, 09 May 2012 - 01:51 AM.

[gfweb]

Adding a bit of baking soda speeds the Maillard reaction by raising pH and onions brown quicker. Like in half the time. I have not compared the taste of these onions to traditionally browned ones. That is for tonight.

[JAZ]

It's taken me probably a thousand pounds of onions to come to fully understand how to best caramelize them. Here's what I've figured out.
. . .

3. Don't crowd the pan. If the layer is too thin, you can always turn down the heat, but if the layer is too thick, and the onions start boiling in their own juices, it's impossible to extract the water. Contrary to countless online recipes, *cough* serious eats *cough* a boiled onion is not a caramelized onion.

Actually, as I learned in this topic, there are at least two results that people call "caramelized" onions -- the ones that brown on the outside, which I think you're describing, and the ones that slowly brown all the way through and break down into a paste, which is what I always thought of as "caramelized." The latter type actually rely on simmering slowly in the water thrown off by the onions. The liquid itself turns a golden brown, as do the onions. If you want them to turn a darker brown you can achieve that result by cooking off the water at the end, but they certainly will brown in the liquid. I do it all the time -- crowd the pan, salt the onions, cover the pan and cook very slowly. I end up with a great result, although I'm sure it's different from yours.