23 replies to this topic

[Aloha Steve]

We are remodeling the kitchen and considering buying the new Wolf steam oven as part of the appliance package.

I know for baking bread its probably a no-brainer that it is a good idea but what about for regular oven
duty? IE: Casseroles, ribs, roasts etc.

To incorporate it into our plans, we would have to give up something, probably the convection microwave in favor of a micro drawer. Since we use the micro primarily to melt and reheat, this trade off does not seem to be a disadvantage.

Please community give us your thoughts. Will using a steam oven come close to the promises of better tasting foods?

Edited by Aloha Steve, 22 March 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[KennethT]

There's a lot of advantages to steam ovens - high end restaurants use them for lots of things - but I don't know about the Wolf model. It doesn't seem like you can control the humidity inside, like you can for a Rational CombiOven, which would be a true steam oven, but it's hard to tell from the Wolf literature.

[minas6907]

I've never used a steam oven, just improvised for bread baking, I'm not so sure though about it being much useful for anything else, I've never had anything I've been roasting that I just was dying to have more steam in the oven. Maybe someone else can give better advice, but if I was doing a casserole or roast, it seems like the addition of steam would inhibit the browning of the food. In a casserole type dish there should be plenty of liquid in it already, that's why steam comes out of the oven when you open it. I'm always leery of promises that food just tastes better with some new feature, the pleasant flavor and texture comes from proper preparation of the ingredients, not just steam in the oven. I personally would consider that feature useful for only bread.

[SJMitch]

We have the Gaggenau combi steam oven and it was the best purchase we made for our kitchen remodel. We use it several times daily.
It is a little more flexible than the Wolf. For one, it is plumbed in, so no refilling of water tanks needed. Besides '100%' steam it has what it calls 60% and 80% steam for midrange levels of steam. It also has an option labelled '30%' steam, but if you read the manual, this just means that the oven vent is closed and the oven gets humidified from the steam from the food alone. The Wolf also has this vent-closed setting.

I've found that 60% and 80% settings aren't critical, and you can approximate them by first cooking at 100% and then drying out the food some with a 0% or full convection setting. If you look through the recipes in, say, Modernist Cuisine, they don't really utilize the midrange settings, recipes are usually done either with standard convection (0% added steam) or 90/100% steam. So the fact that the Wolf lacks them is not really a big deal.

Surprisingly, the function we use it most frequently for is reheating a plate of leftovers. Uncovered, or loosely covered, a microwave cooks fast but dries out the food. The steam oven heats a plate of fridge temp food reasonably quickly (about 15 minutes starting with a cold oven), and keeps it moist. We haven't used our microwave to reheat leftovers since we got the steam oven. Once you try reheating in a steam oven, I think you'll be hooked, at least when you can spare a little extra time.

Cooking with steam is also great for vegetables (keeps them sweeter than boiled), for flans and custards, and yes, for meat roasts (which I prefer to start at 100% steam and then switch to 0% at the end).

The cavity is smaller than a standard wall oven (at least on the Gaggenau) but this is a plus -- it preheats quickly.

You can cook with steam in a regular steam pot on the stove, or (to control dry bulb temp in addition to adding steam) put a tray of water in a oven, but the steam ovens make it so much more convenient. Plumbed-in is even more convenient but the plumbed Gaggenau new is very expensive, although there are some prior models still available here and there for much less.

We use our so much I wish we had two! With two cooks and multiple dishes, there is usually competition for the steam oven.

[Aloha Steve]

We have the Gaggenau combi steam oven..........................
We use our so much I wish we had two! With two cooks and multiple dishes, there is usually competition for the steam oven.

Thank you for the info. Very helpful.

[Aloha Steve]

Here's the link of the Steam-Convection oven for convenience sake:

OVEN

Any other thoughts?

Edited by Aloha Steve, 22 March 2012 - 11:22 PM.

[Mjx]

My boyfriend is dying to get the Gaggenau model SJMitch mentions above (to match the regular Gaggenau we already have), but even though I bake bread at least once a week, I have doubts. My boyfriend mentioned 'steamed vegetables/other things!' I had to point out that it makes more sense to use a steamer basket for a minute on the stovetop, and he hates most steamed things. In terms of cost-effectiveness, it seems like using a steam oven for many of the suggested/possible uses isn't that great: I can't see my way to firing up the oven for 15 minutes to heat leftovers, either, but that may have more to do with the sort of leftovers we usually have, which are easily heated very quickly on the stovetop.

But if I could get that steam oven for free, I'd consider it worth it for baking bread

[EnriqueB]

I have recently changed my convection oven and I also wondered about buying a Gaggenau. My main issue was that, being able to have only one oven, the Gaggenaus only reach around 220ºC or less if I remember well, while the convection oven I was looking at goes up to 300ºC, something I find very useful for roasting, pizzas etc.

[ermintrude]

I have an AEG steam oven, here's the latest model http://www.aeg.co.uk...vens/BS7304001M
Not as sophisticated as a true steam oven buy very usefull, also great for low temp cooking and the food probe makes it great to get food spot on.

[SJMitch]

I have recently changed my convection oven and I also wondered about buying a Gaggenau. My main issue was that, being able to have only one oven, the Gaggenaus only reach around 220ºC or less if I remember well, while the convection oven I was looking at goes up to 300ºC, something I find very useful for roasting, pizzas etc.

You remember correctly about the temp, it does only go up to 450F. It has no broiler. It would also be rather small for an only oven. Not counting the microwave we actually have 3 ovens: a large gas oven with rotisserie and fantastic broiler, a mid-size regular convection wall oven, and the steam oven. I'd gladly trade the midsize oven for another steam oven, but not the rotisserie/broiler gas oven. I would not recommend it as an only oven unless one never does any broiling and doesn't need a large size oven.

For reheating food, the temp range I use is 230F-280F and the oven is well-designed, so I don't find it heats up the kitchen. I put the food in on the serving plate into the cold oven, turn it on and come back in 15 minutes. Unlike with a microwave, I don't need to bother covering it, so other than the time (15 minutes versus 5 to 7) I find it more convenient than the MW. It also holds far more than my microwave so I can reheat multiple people's plates at once. One downside is that the plate gets very hot as well, so we keep a stack of side towels near the oven.

If you live near a Purcell Murray you can go test one out. They have both free demos (with food) and will let you schedule a time to bring your food and cook with it. That was what convinced us it was worth it.

[JBailey]

I have a dedicated Cleveland steamer and it is wonderful for all sorts of vegetable and protein preparations. However, it does not replace the need for an oven. There are several smaller and some even portable steamer units in the marketplace. If money is no object, then get a Rational, but it has a three phase electric requirement.

[Shalmanese]

I have a dedicated Cleveland steamer...

*ahem*, I think you mean you have a dedicated Cleveland Steam Oven...

[Msk]

I also have the plumbed Gaggenau and use it frequently. Aside from reheating leftovers and steaming, it also does an emazing job reinvigorating bread. I have done custards, and eggs, and hosts of other stuff.

I like it alot, but not sure it could be my only oven.

Mike

[Aloha Steve]

Does anyone bake bread with your steam oven?

[Edward J]

I couldn't get much technical information from the Wolf site regarding this oven.

For years, there have been many commercial convection ovens with a "steam' feature. But this is not true steam...

For pro Euro-bakeries and many Chinese bakeries, the ovens (or steamers) are fitted with a box that generates steam. This operates independent of the oven and belches clouds of steam into the oven cavity. These units consume a lot of power to convert water to steam. Most of the Euro-bakers use the steam in 2 or 3 10 second blasts and then no more for that bake.

What the commercial convection ovens (but NOT including the Rational ovens) have, is a water line connected to a solenoid. Press a button and water is squirted onto the squirell cage fan of the oven. Tiny droplets of water are flung all over the oven cavity. However, you need energy to convert water into steam. The energy comes from the oven's walls. You will get steam but at a cost--lower oven temps. It will take the oven some time to get back up to temperature again.

[Msk]

RE: Baking Bread

I have on several occasions with good success. However, I have never done a side-by-side with my gas viking range oven.

Mike

...edited to direct the response....

Edited by Msk, 25 April 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[andiesenji]

For about thirteen years I had a Blodgett convection/steam oven for my catering needs.

It held 10 full-size sheet pans and also had 5 wire racks. It was like this one, except both doors had glass.

I stopped doing commercial baking and let my commercial kitchen certification expire and no longer had any use for the oven, which used a lot of gas. (Required a bigger gas line) so eventually I sold it to a friend who has a small bakery/cafe.

There are several manufacturers that make similar ovens and they are designed to take a beating. I bought mine at an auction - a TV studio that produced cooking shows was moving and simply put all the appliances and fixtures (also bought two SS tables) into the auction.
It was used but not as much as in a commercial kitchen and was ideal for me.

No matter where you live, you should be able to find a reliable dealer that carries used equipment where you can get a better deal than buying a new one.


One of the advantages of using steam while cooking or baking is that aromas and flavors do not intermingle. Many times I baked savory tarts, etc., at the same time as sweet things, cheesecakes, pies, tarts, and with no crossover flavors.
I was suspicious of this when I read it in the Blodgett manual but that's the way it worked. I recently saw a blurb about the Miele steam oven with the same notes.

Edited by andiesenji, 25 April 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Aloha Steve]

RE: Baking Bread

I have on several occasions with good success. However, I have never done a side-by-side with my gas viking range oven.

Mike

...edited to direct the response....

As far as you could tell, the crust came out the same?

My concern is I'm used to throwing a cup of hot water onto a half cookie sheet placed on the bottom of the pre-heated oven to get a blast of steam, when first putting the dough in.
And the Wolf bread recipe says do not pre-heat.

I'm wondering how the recipes will turn out?

Edited by Aloha Steve, 25 April 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[Msk]

My memory is that it was an improvment over a dry oven, but how much over an oven with "Simulated steam" like you tried is uncertain.

My gaggenau has a "steam burst" button so thats what I used. The wolf might be worried youd lose all the steam if you pre heated and all the steam comes in the beginning.

Mike

[SJMitch]

Does anyone bake bread with your steam oven?

I've done a few loaves with the Gaggenau steam oven. I've used two methods depending on how substantial I want the crust to be.

One way is to preheat the oven on the 100% steam setting, and then after 3-10 minutes (depending on how long you think steam is important in the baking of breads) turn it to 0% steam so it vents the humidity. This did make a decent crust.

For a heartier crust, I've be able to add even more steam by first doing the '100% steam' setting with preheat, then putting the bread in, switching the oven to 0% and then holding the mist button [this button is not available when the oven is set to 100% steam] to add more, and switching it back to 100% steam for some minutes, and then back to 0% to finish off.

In either case, I preheat with a cast iron platter dusted with flour or cornmeal, but there are some stones that fit the Gaggenau steam oven (e.g. the American Metalcraft Stone12 fits). The Gaggenau does top out at 450F.

Here's a pic of a loaf of 5-minute-a-day bread baking in the steam oven:

[Mjx]

. . . .

In either case, I preheat with a cast iron platter dusted with flour or cornmeal, but there are some stones that fit the Gaggenau steam oven (e.g. the American Metalcraft Stone12 fits). The Gaggenau does top out at 450F.

. . . .

There's also Gaggenau's own stone, but it's not cheap, and I have some doubts about it (although again, I wouldn't say no to a free one).

[SJMitch]

There's also Gaggenau's own stone, but it's not cheap, and I have some doubts about it (although again, I wouldn't say no to a free one).

Is that a new accessory for the Gaggenau steam oven or are you thinking of the stone (plus extra heating element) they sell for their regular convection oven? The interior of the steam oven is much smaller than the regular ovens, so it couldn't be used in the steam oven. (nor does the steam oven have the port for the extra heating element that works with their baking stone and roaster accessory).

[Mjx]

There's also Gaggenau's own stone, but it's not cheap, and I have some doubts about it (although again, I wouldn't say no to a free one).

Is that a new accessory for the Gaggenau steam oven or are you thinking of the stone (plus extra heating element) they sell for their regular convection oven? The interior of the steam oven is much smaller than the regular ovens, so it couldn't be used in the steam oven. (nor does the steam oven have the port for the extra heating element that works with their baking stone and roaster accessory).

Yes, the stone for their regular oven. When we spoke with a rep., he said that the effect of a stone in a steam oven was found to be too insignificant to warrant their making a version for the steam units (I'm hypothesising that this has something to do with the overall lower temperature when the oven is full of steam.).

[SJMitch]

Yes, the stone for their regular oven. When we spoke with a rep., he said that the effect of a stone in a steam oven was found to be too insignificant to warrant their making a version for the steam units (I'm hypothesising that this has something to do with the overall lower temperature when the oven is full of steam.).

Because of the humidity settings, the wet bulb temperature in the Gaggenau combi oven set at high humidity will be higher than in a dry oven. I haven't done it yet, but after seeing the wet bulb curves in Modernist Cuisine for the Rational combi oven, I've wanted to measure and plot them for my Gaggenau combi oven for comparison and to see how variable Gagg's temp control is. I'm partially hoping someone will beat me to it, though, so I won't feel the need to rig up equipment.

In any case, I get much higher oven spring when placing the dough onto the preheated cast iron pan than onto a thin pan. A stone should behave similarly.

The Gagg accessories are very overpriced, so it's no big deal if they don't have a stone for the steam oven. The stone I listed is less than $10 (though as I mentioned, I already had an iron platter that fit). Also, standard hotel pans (1/3, 1/2, and 2/3 sizes) fit on the steam oven rails and can be found in any restaurant supply shop for around $10 each.