13 replies to this topic

[Rory Hart]

I am following the directions in Ruhlman and Polcyn's Charcuterie for the fennel cured salmon and am wondering if it is okay to cure the salmon in a ziploc bag. I regularly use ziplocs to cure bacon so I'm thinking there probably isn't any issue. They talk about using foil but that seems less convenient and I can get most of the air out of a ziploc so the cure covers the salmon more evenly.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks

[Keith_W]

I can think of two potential issues. I normally wrap my salmon in something semi-porous (e.g. foil or plastic wrap), then place it in a bowl, with a smaller plate on top of it, with a weight on the plate. This produces a lot of liquid which weeps out of the fish and into the bowl. Crucially, the liquid can escape whilst most of the cure is still held against the fish. The liquid is emptied every day during the curing process. In fact the whole idea for curing fish this way (with a weight pressing down on it) is to get rid of as much moisture as possible so that you can achieve the signature texture of cured salmon.

The first issue - if you use a zip-lock bag, your fish will be in contact with the liquid throughout. It will eventually reach an equilibrium and the fish will not weep any more moisture. Given how delicate fish is, this equilibrium will probably be reached very quickly - perhaps in less than a day. You may actually find this desirable but it will change the result.

The second issue - make sure your zip-lock bag will maintain the seal when you weigh it down with a heavy weight. You don't want it to burst and spill fishy liquid in your fridge ...

BTW another Melbournian ... welcome! :)

Edited by Keith_W, 05 March 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[budrichard]

I have been using Freezer type Zip Lock bags for years for all my curing including whole sides of salmon.
Presently I have a half of a whole brisket (120 cut) curing in A 2 GAL FREEZER ZIP LOCK in a large Pyrex baking dish to catch any leakage.
I have had absolutely no problems with using Zip Locks and the only potential problem might be any leaching of chemicals from the Zip Lock materail but since Zip Locks are designed for food, I have to assume this does not occur to where it amounts to much and I don't have the equipment to detect any leaching anyway.
Use the Zip Lock for your Salmon, you actually require less salt/water as the Zip Lock keeps the fish in contact with the solution. Just put the bag in another container to catch any leakage and turn very few days.-Dick

Edited by budrichard, 05 March 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[Chris Hennes]

I've done plenty of cures in vacuum bags, where the same principle applies: it works very well, in my opinion, and I find the resulting texture to be excellent.

[Rory Hart]

The first issue - if you use a zip-lock bag, your fish will be in contact with the liquid throughout. It will eventually reach an equilibrium and the fish will not weep any more moisture. Given how delicate fish is, this equilibrium will probably be reached very quickly - perhaps in less than a day. You may actually find this desirable but it will change the result.

This different to what Charcuterie says:

Pan size is important, because the fish will release a lot of liquid, forming in effect a highly seasoned brine in which it will cure; and you want the brine to cover as much of the fish as possible.

BTW another Melbournian ... welcome! :)

Yay! I've seen a couple of us around, not surprising given what a foodie town this is especially atm with the festival on and the likes of Bourdain and Oliver on our streets and in our restaurants.

[Keith_W]

Hmm, OK. I was taught to make gravlax by a friend's mother and that's what she said :) I suppose that might be an old wives tale then. The next time I make a batch, I will try it in a zip-lock bag.

Oh and BTW Oliver and go back to the UK! I can't stand him :P

[Rory Hart]

Hmm, OK. I was taught to make gravlax by a friend's mother and that's what she said :) I suppose that might be an old wives tale then. The next time I make a batch, I will try it in a zip-lock bag.

Oh and BTW Oliver and go back to the UK! I can't stand him :P

It is probably a difference in curing processes.

I don't mind Jamie, he is an excellent advocate for people thinking about what they eat. His recipes generally aren't overly exciting but they're solid and straight forward.

That said I'd kill (a pig or two) to hang out with Bourdain. Didn't bother getting tickets to his show, I've watched so many of them already I don't think I would get anything out of it. But chatting to him over a beer (or meal) would be freaking awesome.

Edited by Rory Hart, 06 March 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[Rory Hart]

The salmon went into the cure this morning. :D

[nickrey]

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

[Rory Hart]

Turned out beautifully!

The salmon came out of the bag a touch over seasoned at the tail end and I only cured it for two of the recommended three. The fleshy 2/3s were delicious however and I served it last night as tartare with toast points and creme fraiche as suggested in Charcuterie. Will do the tail for a day less next time. I also stored it after washing in ziploc bags with the air pressed out for 4 or so days and they were just as good as when they went in. No idea about longer.



I think I will* do the dice smaller than that next time it was a little hard to manoeuvre on the plates and didn't hold its shape well when formed with a ring.

* It was so delicious and simple (apart from the forward planning and skinning) that I have to do this dish again.

Edited by Rory Hart, 11 March 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[scubadoo97]

I've done salmon in a dry cure and in a wet brine. They both work but there are textural differences.

Starting with a dry cure in a bag gives the effects of both methods to an extent

[Rory Hart]

What sort of textural differences?

[scubadoo97]

What sort of textural differences?

when using a brine to cure the salmon the texture is softer, wetter and silkier. When you use a dry cure, the fish firms up more due to the loss of moisture. My most recent attempt started with a10% brine for 24hr followed a dry cure for 24 hrs. This helped firm up the fish without making gummy bear salmon which I find happens with a 3 day dry cure

Edited by scubadoo97, 08 April 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Rory Hart]

Interesting I will try this asap! Thanks!