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Can you make cocktail syrups with guar or xanthan gum?


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15 replies to this topic

#1 ThatNateGuy

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 01:20 AM

Hey There,

I'm new to the forums but have been reading vigorously with extreme excitement over everything that is being concocted on these forums, but that's besides the point. I have been using Small Hand Foods Gum syrups for a little over a year now and am wanting to start experimenting with my own. Thankfully I have some old cocktail books with recipes to make it. However I am having an extremely hard time sourcing Arabic gum (acacia powder) locally. What I am wondering is if Xantham or Guar Gum would suffice in its place (obviously they are a more powerful emulsifier so the dosing would be different) Any input on the matter would be extremely helpful. Thanks in advance..

-Nate

#2 Chris Amirault

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 06:46 AM

We've discussed gum/gomme syrup quite a bit elsewhere (click here for my recipe in the dedicated topic). I've fiddled around with xanthan and guar gums a bit in non-cocktail applications, and I'd say that it's worth tracking down the arabic for this one. Gum syrup with arabic has a malty quality that's not present in those other gums (by intention, I believe). I also think that the meringue-like foam you get with egg white drinks using gum syrup is out of this world -- though, again, I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons with those others.
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#3 SznNZ

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:49 AM

I make a 2:1 sugar syrup with 0.35% Xanthan Gum as per Modernist Cuisine, it makes a more creamy stable foam in drinks with egg whites

#4 mkayahara

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:03 AM

Will Goldfarb makes a "modern" gum syrup using locust bean gum, if that helps at all. I haven't tried it, though, so I can't vouch for it.
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#5 KatieLoeb

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 02:01 PM

I use xanthan gum in my orgeat recipe. Doesn't keep it from separating completely over time, but does seem to help keep it emulsified for longer once it's shaken up. For whatever that's worth...

Not quite sure I understand what you're trying to do with simple syrup. Just give it more body? Why not make a richer syrup and just use less accordingly?

Katie M. Loeb
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#6 ThatNateGuy

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:21 PM

Chris- I have broken down and ordered it online as a friend from bourbon and branch said its completely different without the arabic gum. Thanks for your advice and your recipe though.

Katie- No not just trying to give it body. Trying to make a traditional Gomme (gum) syrup. I have been using Small Hand Foods assortment for over a year and figured why not start making my own and infusing with other flavors not available. Thus i was seeing if i could substitute the gum so i could source it locally. Another reason I am doing this vs Rich syrup is that i love the taste/body of gum syrup and find it to be much better and more shelf stable than a rich syrup.

Everyone else- thanks for the responses and i hope to be able to lend you advice/knowledge in my future on the forums.

#7 Chris Amirault

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:23 PM

ThatNateGuy, you are hereby ordered to do a side-by-side analysis on taste, texture, and all other factors upon receipt. Report back. This is not a drill.
Chris Amirault
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#8 ThatNateGuy

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:02 PM

Haha, well fair enough Chris. While i won't say I am an expert by any means. I will give my report when the product arrives. I will be making a large batch with the following flavors:

Original
Pinapple
Raspberry
Rosemary Mint
Apple

so it should be fun..

#9 slkinsey

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:05 AM

The arabic/xanthan combination works very well together. But one thing I've found is that you have to have a very light hand with the Xanthan gum or you run the risk of a slimy texture.
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#10 KatieLoeb

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 10:54 PM

ThatNateGuy:

Most definitely looking forward to the report on all those delicious sounding variations. Take notes. We expect full on recipes that are capable of being easily reproduced. Somebody has to take one for the team. Welcome to eGullet. :biggrin:

Katie M. Loeb
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#11 Mayur

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:52 PM

The arabic/xanthan combination works very well together. But one thing I've found is that you have to have a very light hand with the Xanthan gum or you run the risk of a slimy texture.

I prefer xanthan/locust bean (for this and for pastry apps).

0.3% xanthan
0.1% locust bean

This makes an absurdly kick-ass shaken drink syrup. Weirdly (I'm looking into the science on this) it also locks in the color on herb syrups.
Mayur Subbarao, aka "Mayur"

#12 KatieLoeb

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:13 PM

...Weirdly (I'm looking into the science on this) it also locks in the color on herb syrups...



Really?? That's intriguing just on its own. I'd be most curious to hear back on what you discover about that.

Katie M. Loeb
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Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol


#13 slkinsey

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:23 AM


The arabic/xanthan combination works very well together. But one thing I've found is that you have to have a very light hand with the Xanthan gum or you run the risk of a slimy texture.

I prefer xanthan/locust bean (for this and for pastry apps).

0.3% xanthan
0.1% locust bean

Percent of what? Total syrup weight (i.e., sugar and water combined) or only water or only sugar?
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#14 Mayur

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:46 PM



The arabic/xanthan combination works very well together. But one thing I've found is that you have to have a very light hand with the Xanthan gum or you run the risk of a slimy texture.

I prefer xanthan/locust bean (for this and for pastry apps).

0.3% xanthan
0.1% locust bean

Percent of what? Total syrup weight (i.e., sugar and water combined) or only water or only sugar?

Total syrup weight.
Mayur Subbarao, aka "Mayur"

#15 sbumgarner

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:53 AM

Do the xanthan and locust bean gum powders have to be emulsified in hot water and then mixed into syrup like the gum arabic in Chris' recipe mentioned earlier in the thread or can the powders simply be emulsified into the warm 2:1 syrup?

#16 Mayur

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:54 AM

Two things:

First, I was off with the ratios. It's 0.1% xanthan, 0.03% locust bean.

Second: You can hydrate the gums in hot syrup, but I don't see the point. It's just as easy to heat the water, hydrate the gums in the water, then add the sugar and blend.
Mayur Subbarao, aka "Mayur"