20 replies to this topic

[mkayahara]

Although I know it isn't universally accepted, I am a firm believer in the existence of "umami" as a separate taste. But in a discussion on Twitter today, it was pointed out to me that not many dishes can be described as having "too much umami", whereas foods are commonly too sweet/sour/salty/bitter. The only counterexample I could come up with was Doritos, mostly due to the amount of MSG they contain.

So what do you think? Is there such a thing as "too much umami"?

[jmolinari]

Yes, definitely. I can't think of any examples off hand, but i've often thought to myself, "this food is WAY too savory".

Actually i just thought of it... BBQ Spare Rib potato chips from our vending machine. I ate some and just thought "this isn't too salty, it's just pure savoryness...pure MSG"

[jsmeeker]

is that like asking if a dish can have too much bacon?

[jmolinari]

is that like asking if a dish can have too much bacon?

The answer to that is a most resounding "yes" as well!

[Shalmanese]

Yes, a heavy hand with umami obliterates other flavors and just makes something taste generically savory. It's the taste of bad chinese restaurants.

[Wholemeal Crank]

Yes, definitely. Umami has it's time and place, but not every dish, every time, calls for it.

[Mjx]

Although I know it isn't universally accepted, I am a firm believer in the existence of "umami" as a separate taste. But in a discussion on Twitter today, it was pointed out to me that not many dishes can be described as having "too much umami", whereas foods are commonly too sweet/sour/salty/bitter. The only counterexample I could come up with was Doritos, mostly due to the amount of MSG they contain.

So what do you think? Is there such a thing as "too much umami"?

I'm not certain whether you're distinguishing between MSG-created umami, and any other sort (I'm not reflexively anti-MSG, by the way).

Umami from most sources is pretty hard to overdo, since you usually get it from sources that don't become excessive unless they get really concentrated (e.g. by reduction, dehydration), and even then, I think that you start to get some breakdown products, with bitter/salty compounds forming/becoming too prominent.

MSG is just concentrated umami, so it's pretty easy to hit 'too much umami' with it, what Shalmanese described as 'the taste of bad Chinese restaurants', or the taste of cheap snack food (I've noticed this in a lot of seasoned peanuts).

[Shalmanese]

Umami from most sources is pretty hard to overdo, since you usually get it from sources that don't become excessive unless they get really concentrated (e.g. by reduction, dehydration), and even then, I think that you start to get some breakdown products, with bitter/salty compounds forming/becoming too prominent.

MSG is just concentrated umami, so it's pretty easy to hit 'too much umami' with it, what Shalmanese described as 'the taste of bad Chinese restaurants', or the taste of cheap snack food (I've noticed this in a lot of seasoned peanuts).

I've definitely over umamied a dish before. It was a pasta sauce made from braised goat, cream, dried porcinis, dried morels & truffle salt and it just tasted too umami for me to eat more than a tiny portion of.

[Mjx]

Umami from most sources is pretty hard to overdo, since you usually get it from sources that don't become excessive unless they get really concentrated (e.g. by reduction, dehydration), and even then, I think that you start to get some breakdown products, with bitter/salty compounds forming/becoming too prominent.

MSG is just concentrated umami, so it's pretty easy to hit 'too much umami' with it, what Shalmanese described as 'the taste of bad Chinese restaurants', or the taste of cheap snack food (I've noticed this in a lot of seasoned peanuts).

I've definitely over umamied a dish before. It was a pasta sauce made from braised goat, cream, dried porcinis, dried morels & truffle salt and it just tasted too umami for me to eat more than a tiny portion of.

That does sound a bit...overcrowded. But I also think that falls in the 'over-concentrated for the given volume' category, what with the braised goat cheese, and all the dried mushrooms (just my subjective opinion, obviously).

[rarerollingobject]

Most of the 'mites' taste too umami to me..Vegemite, Marmite, Promite etc. Many Americans have possibly never had the "pleasure" of tasting these, which are essentially boiled down yeast extract.

It's not just that they're too salty (which they are), but too mouth-puckeringly savoury, to my taste.

[gfweb]

I wouldn't want umami in a salad. I want salads to taste in shades of green.

[mkayahara]

I'm not certain whether you're distinguishing between MSG-created umami, and any other sort (I'm not reflexively anti-MSG, by the way).

Again, though, I don't think it's necessary to distinguish between a dish that's too salty because you added too much salt to it, and a dish that's too salty because you added too much of a naturally salty food: they're both too salty. It's a distinction without a difference.

[Jenni]

^^^
Except msg is very concentrated so I think it is logical that it would add a LOT more umami than any product with quite a bit of naturally occurring umami.

[mkayahara]

Except msg is very concentrated so I think it is logical that it would add a LOT more umami than any product with quite a bit of naturally occurring umami.

Oh, of course it's easier to "over-umami" with MSG, just as it's easier to oversalt with pure sodium chloride! But regardless of how you get there, the end result is the same.

[qrn]

Interesting,,,has anyone used MSG in a vinigarette??? Ijust made a vinigarette with onion juice,
garlic juice, salt sherry wine vinegar, taragon ,sugar, and lecithin, wonder if MSG might help give it more of a "hit"???,,the only thing I have used MSG for is a rub for bbq..
Bud...

[Mjx]

Except msg is very concentrated so I think it is logical that it would add a LOT more umami than any product with quite a bit of naturally occurring umami.

Oh, of course it's easier to "over-umami" with MSG, just as it's easier to oversalt with pure sodium chloride! But regardless of how you get there, the end result is the same.

Unless it's used really sparingly, though, MSG makes for very one-dimensional umami, which (to my taste, anyway) makes it hit the 'too-much' mark really easily.

So, although you can have too much umami, it's seems an unlikely outcome when using ingredients other than MSG, since you'd usually have a fair chance of catching the trend in that direction, and not add further umami-enhancing ingredients, or stop reducing, that sort of thing. The only times I've encountered something with too much umami, MSG has been involved.

[Keith_W]

I asked myself an interesting question while making my latest batch of bolognese sauce tonight - can there be too much umami?

Of our other five taste senses - we can easily detect when we are overloaded with a particular taste. Something can taste too sour, or too sweet, or too bitter, or too salty. The effect is to put us off our food. But is there such a thing as too much umami?

To find out, I spooned off a portion into a bowl. Into this bowl. I progressively added MSG. Bear in mind that my bolognese sauce is already designed to maximize umami - the mince has been browned in portions, it has parmesan rinds, concentrated tomato, and fish sauce in it.

Result: it improved for a while (developing that characteristic savoriness) and then it started to get noticably saltier. I suspect that the saltiness comes from the Sodium in the MSG rather than the glutamate itself. It became impossible to ignore the saltiness, but I could not detect the umami itself getting stronger.

What do the rest of you think - is it possible to have too much umami?

[gfweb]

There will be a point where any group of receptors can bind no more of its activator. At that point the response will be maximized and go no further. Sounds like you hit that point.

[Anna N]

I think we discussed this quite recently - click

[Norm Matthews]

It seems to me that you were adding saltiness to umami. Salt brings out flavors. You kept adding MSG until you got too much saltiness. You were not adding savory to see if you got too much but adding MSG until you got too much salty.

[piracer]

fish sauce in bolognase... good idea!