21 replies to this topic

[David Ross]

I'm just beginning to venture beyond my preferences for American and French cuisine and exploring the cuisine of India. As a novice cook in terms of the variables and subtleties involved with Indian cooking, I thought I would start with just one ingredient-Lamb.

I've been reading through At Home with Madhur Jaffrey as a reference to my introduction to Indian cookery.

I started with Jaffrey's recipe for "Punjabi Lamb Kebabs." While staying fairly true to the recipe, I substituted rack of lamb for the boneless lamb meat called for in the recipe. I couldn't find, (nor did I take the time to make), the mustard oil called for in the recipe so I used a combination of Chinese Chili Oil, Sesame Seed Oil and Olive oil. And due to the cold, wet weather in the Northwest today, I wasn't able to barbecue on the outdoor grill like I wanted, so I used the recipe suggestion of broiling the meat.

The rack of lamb was marinated overnight in a mixture of yogurt, the three oils, salt, garlic, ginger, garam masala and I added some curry powder and an incredibly fragrant Ras el hanout mix I bought yesterday. To accompany the lamb I made some pickled red onions and served them on a bed of sliced cucumber. And a simple steamed basmati rice seasoned with saffron, tumeric and cumin.

I welcome your suggestions and discussion on how you like to prepare Indian-style lamb.

[Jenni]

Hi David, just so you know, the mustard oil used in India is oil pressed from mustard seeds, so it's not really something you would be expected to make at home! You should be able to find it in stores that sell Indian groceries, and I'm also told that it can be found in Korean stores too. Make sure you get 100% pure, as there are some that are mixed with other vegetable oils. 100% pure will be labelled "For external use only", because it has a high erucic acid content which apparently has concerned EU and USA food health officials, but I believe the studies done on erucic acid that caused these concerns are now being debated. In addition to this, it has a long history of safe usage in the subcontinent, and whilst this is not really scientific evidence, I found it to be quite compelling and often use mustard oil in pickles and Bengali dishes myself.

Back to the lamb, what regions do you think you are interested in cooking from? Or at least, what kind of flavours and textures are you after? Something searing hot and piquant, something creamy and aromatic, moist stews, or dry fries, kebabs, chops, etc?

I am a veggie, so I will probably not be much help, but I can tell you that I don't think lamb itself is that common in India. I think lamb is usually used in Indian recipes outside of India as a substitute for mutton, which often is actually goat rather than sheep. I am sure there are at least some dishes that are actually lamb rather than older sheep though - perhaps an omniviourous South Asian will chime in and help you out!

Edited by Jenni, 03 April 2011 - 01:21 AM.

[liuzhou]

I would also suggest that if you really want to appreciate "subtleties involved with Indian cooking", you can't substitute ingredients in the way you describe. The oil mix you mention is nothing like mustard oil and the oils you used are not generally used in Indian cooking.

If you really want to delve into Indian food, I suggest the first thing you do is bin the curry powder. It is an English invention and not used in India. Ras el hanout is way out of place here. I love the stuff, but not in Indian food. Totally different flavors.

Finally, I'm concerned about your rice. Didn't the turmeric and cumin totally overpower the rather expensive, but subtle, saffon?

I have no doubt that your dish was delicious. It certainly looks it, but it isn't Indian cuisine.

Edited by liuzhou, 03 April 2011 - 01:45 AM.

[Jenni]

^^^
Well yes, that's one way of putting it! I must admit, I thought that David was asking for advice on cooking lamb in an Indian style, not claiming that he necessarily has in this instance. Maybe I have misread.

[liuzhou]

Jenni, you are absolutely correct and have not, so far as I can see, misread.

In response to his asking for advice, my advice is that the substitutions don't really work (if he wants an authentic dish) and it might be better to go back to the original recipe.

Where is the problem in that?

[Jenni]

^^^
liuzhou, I think we are in agreement on the substitution issue. But somehow I felt your post seemed a little harsh, when I felt that David only said he wanted to know more about cooking lamb in an Indian style, not that he knew how to already. Re-reading, I do not feel the harshness I first felt. So I will be quiet now!

Incidentally, I did not spot the saffron or the ras-el-hanout in David's post till you pointed it out (brain has not been in gear in this thread!) so thank you for that. Indeed, when I use saffron in a rice dish I would definitely not add turmeric. I may well use a few other spices though, I would just use them in a subtle way so that the turmeric would shine through.

As for the ras-el-hanout, I cannot really imagine it in this dish. I suppose however that it does contain some spices used in Indian cuisine (in fact some ras el hanout I have seen for sale often appears to be garam masala with chilli powder and rose petal added to it!) so I suppose I can see it's usage in a fusion situation. And remember that there are many Muslim dishes in India that do have quite a bit in common with middle eastern, arabic and morrocan muslim cuisine. But I agree that it is probably better to concentrate less on fusion dishes and more on the basics when first learning about Indian cuisine!

Curry powder? Well, I don't use the stuff myself and certainly in India it is not used on a daily basis in every dish and it has no place in traditional Indian cuisine. More people in India now are using some store bought spice mixtures to speed up the cooking process, but even then these do tend to be more specific than "curry powder". I know that quite a lot of Westernised Indian recipes call for curry powder along with other spices, so I assumed that it was called for in the recipe. I am sure David can clarify this, and perhaps he can also tell us if he made it himself or bought it.

Regarding the oil blend, I got the impression from David's comment about making it himself that he thought it was an infused oil, hence I decided to explain it in my reply. This may account for why he tried to substitute it with a variety of other oils.

By the way, sesame oil is a very traditional oil in India, but it is not the toasted kind like that which is used in East Asian cookery.

[dcarch]

I have a bottle of mustard oil. I bought it here in NYC in a Chinese store. Very powerful oil. A few drops goes a long way. It smells like wasabi.

I will have to go to Jackson Heights here sometime and buy the Indian version and compare. J. Heights in NY is totally populated by Indians.


dcarch

[sheepish]

I'll start by saying my exposure to Indian food doesn't go far past Madhur Jaffery. What I have read is that she often substitutes boned meat because that's what she thinks her audience will prefer, but my personal preference is to cook on the bone. I typically cook with loin or neck chops which I cut into 1-2" cubes with a cleaver. And I use my lamb which I typically don't have slaughtered until it's more than a year old for added flavour. I never use leg, I don't think it has the flavour. I save that for a much more British style roast lamb. I also tend to cook her recipes that involve relatively long cooking which are well worth trying.

The preparation tends to be along the lines of cooking whole spices in hot oil before removing a ginding them. Browning meat in the same oil. Removing he meat. Browning garlic and ginger puree and then adding the ingredients back, often with yoghurt to form the base of the sauce. A very good example would be badami roghan josh from "The Essential Madhur Jaffrey".

The other method that is surprisingly good given it runs contrary to everything I've ever learned about cooking meat is what I believe to be a more Pakistani style where the meat is boiled. There's a lovely recipe in "The Ultimate Curry Bible" for Aloo Gosht. This recipe first introduced me to boiled meat curries and is very good too : http://www.stonefisk...nlambcurry.html

It's well worth buying whole spices and grinding them when needed, unless you use a lot of ground spices and know they were fairly fresh when you buy them, they don't seem to match the flavour of freshly ground. I use an old hand operated coffee grinder to grind spices.

[djyee100]

I've only tried mustard oil once, in a fish pitika dish from Assam. I think mustard oil is an acquired taste. Some people love it, some people hate it. Substituting for it may have been a good idea. I bought my mustard oil in a Middle Eastern store. Also, I was told to cook the mustard oil at high heat for about a minute, to detoxify it.

A couple Indian lamb recipes for you, from a chef named Ruta Kahate. The recipes are in her cookbook, 5 Spices, 50 Dishes. I haven't tried these two recipes, though I've cooked many of her other recipes and I've liked her food for years. A word of caution about salt in the book's recipes: it's for kosher salt, not sea salt (though it doesn't specifically say), so adjust the amount accordingly.

Roasted lamb with burnt onions:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PFkCt6kQNIEC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=ruta+kahate+lamb&source=bl&ots=2YgVD3pPs0&sig=ohSkRAaab_guXJPjcdLxmGpFYaI&hl=en&ei=9q2YTYCTIIP2tgPhk5zIBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ruta%20kahate%20lamb&f=false

Lamb chops with spicy rub:

http://www.epicurean.com/featured/lamb-chops-with-a-spicy-rub-recipe.html

ETA: Oho. When I scroll down in the first link on Googlebooks, I get the recipe for Lamb Meatballs in Spicy Malabari Curry. Now that's a recipe I've cooked, more than once, and it's one of my faves. The meatballs taste good with ground chicken thigh meat too.

Edited by djyee100, 03 April 2011 - 10:53 AM.

[David Ross]

Thanks everyone for replying. I know I'm going to learn a lot from those of you out there who have far more expertise cooking Indian-Style Lamb than I do and I'm asking for your advice in helping me along that path. Let me clarify a few things by answering some of the questions that have been brought forward.

As a reference, this is my original post:

I'm just beginning to venture beyond my preferences for American and French cuisine and exploring the cuisine of India. As a novice cook in terms of the variables and subtleties involved with Indian cooking, I thought I would start with just one ingredient-Lamb.

I've been reading through At Home with Madhur Jaffrey as a reference to my introduction to Indian cookery.

I started with Jaffrey's recipe for "Punjabi Lamb Kebabs." While staying fairly true to the recipe, I substituted rack of lamb for the boneless lamb meat called for in the recipe. I couldn't find, (nor did I take the time to make), the mustard oil called for in the recipe so I used a combination of Chinese Chili Oil, Sesame Seed Oil and Olive oil. And due to the cold, wet weather in the Northwest today, I wasn't able to barbecue on the outdoor grill like I wanted, so I used the recipe suggestion of broiling the meat.

The rack of lamb was marinated overnight in a mixture of yogurt, the three oils, salt, garlic, ginger, garam masala and I added some curry powder and an incredibly fragrant Ras el hanout mix I bought yesterday. To accompany the lamb I made some pickled red onions and served them on a bed of sliced cucumber. And a simple steamed basmati rice seasoned with saffron, tumeric and cumin.

I welcome your suggestions and discussion on how you like to prepare Indian-style lamb.

Thanks Jenni for the tip on the mustard oil. I have two lcoal markets that I think may have it. Your assumption of my comments are correct- I thought it was an infused oil so I thought of trying to steep mustard seeds in canola oil. Thank you for steering me away from that.

I chose to start with lamb because I'm comfortable cooking it in American and French preparations and the lamb recipes in Jaffrey's cookbook were tempting. Jaffrey didn't mention in this particular recipe that mutton or goat were preferable to lamb. Maybe she just assumed mutton and goat would be hard to source in most of America and lamb is more readily available. Trust me, I would prefer mutton if I could find it. I've been on an ongoing search for mutton online for years and have not been successful. I have two sources local sources for mutton, but I have to buy a full or half carcass and have to call the farmer to see if/when it's available. I don't want 100lbs. of mutton in my freezer.

Does anyone know of a US online source for mutton?

What caught my eye about the Punjabi style lamb dish from Jaffrey was the fact that it had the texture and flavors of lamb roasted/broiled. I wanted to start with a technique and flavor result I'm familiar with before venturing into the other styles you mentioned like hot/piquant, creamy/aromatic or moist stews.

As I mentioned in the opening post, I'm a novice at Indian cooking so I was beginning with what I've heard is a trusted source for beginners-Madhur Jaffrey. She offers a number of substitutions in her recipes, (like using cumin seeds, cayenne and lime juice if you can't find Chaat Masala), so I didn't think it would be a problem. Whether it's out of compromise for her audience or she actually uses the stuff, Jaffrey does suggest using prepared Garam Masala in her recipes. "Store-bought is fine" is her quote for the Punjabi Lamb Kebabs that I used as the base for my dish. I'm certainly in tune with the fact that buying and roasting your own spices is preferable to the commerically bottled product, and as I delve into this Indian-Style lamb quest further I will more than likely get comfortable crafting my own spice mixes.

I didn't find the tumeric and cumin overpowered the saffron in the rice. In my mind I was going for hints of the flavor of saffron with overtones of cumin. I primarily used the tumeric to give the rice color, and it barely added any flavor.

The Ras el hanout was store-bought and composed of tumeric, white pepper, black pepper, coriander, ginger, cinnamon, anise, safforn, long pepper, cardamom, rose petal, nutmeg, mace, fennel, and grains of paradise. Are some of those spices used in Indian cuisine? I chose to add the Ras el hanout to the lamb marinade and to sprinkle some of it on the finished lamb because it had an exotic scent and spice that gave me a sense of the aroma of Indian-Style Lamb. I now realize that Ras el hanout is not a traditional purely Indian spice but I couldn't resist in the moment. I do agree that starting with the basics-one protein (lamb) and the basic Indian spices, is probably a stronger beginning position than immediately taking things "fusion."

Thanks again for your suggestions. Any more ideas out there for Indian-Style Lamb Dishes?

[liuzhou]

The Ras el hanout was store-bought and composed of tumeric, white pepper, black pepper, coriander, ginger, cinnamon, anise, safforn, long pepper, cardamom, rose petal, nutmeg, mace, fennel, and grains of paradise. Are some of those spices used in Indian cuisine?

Most of the spices listed are used in Indian cuisine, with the exception of the rose petal and grains of paradise which give a distinctly different flavor.

To really appreciate Indian cooking, I do suggest, if it is possible, that you get yourself a selection of individual spices and experiment with those rather than using store bought mixes.

[David Ross]

The Ras el hanout was store-bought and composed of tumeric, white pepper, black pepper, coriander, ginger, cinnamon, anise, safforn, long pepper, cardamom, rose petal, nutmeg, mace, fennel, and grains of paradise. Are some of those spices used in Indian cuisine?

Most of the spices listed are used in Indian cuisine, with the exception of the rose petal and grains of paradise which give a distinctly different flavor.

To really appreciate Indian cooking, I do suggest, if it is possible, that you get yourself a selection of individual spices and experiment with those rather than using store bought mixes.

Thanks for the info. What exactly is grains of paradise?

[liuzhou]

What exactly is grains of paradise?

They are the seeds of a plant related to ginger and are used as a spice in Africa. They have a strong peppery flavor.

Edited by liuzhou, 03 April 2011 - 07:10 PM.

[Blether]

With respect to you. liuzhou, I don't agree that "curry powder" is such a distinct difference between Indian and faux-Indian cooking. The Indian grocers from whom I buy my spices target an ex-pat Indian audience and sell numerous spice mixes: "fish masala", "tandoori masala" and the like, which in being ready-blended ground spice mixes are, to my mind, curry powders. Likewise, North India's garam masala and the Bengali Panch Phoran are common commercial spice blends.

As for turmeric, white pepper, black pepper, coriander, ginger, cinnamon, anise, safforn, long pepper, cardamom, rose petal, nutmeg, mace, fennel, and grains of paradise... the moghul cuisine of North India and its strong connecton with imperial Persia tell me that there isn't a black-and-white distinction there either.

David, if you're looking for the basics, I believe a mix of 2/3 coriander seed, 1/3 cumin and as much chilli as you like are the most basic spice mix or "curry powder". For myself I'm eyeing various recipes along the lines of "shah jahani raan" for when I have the time. One of the most standout lamb dishes I've had was "Lamb Pasanda" at Khan's in Westbourne Grove, London - a Pat Chapman recipe I have makes it boneless lamb pounded (pasanda, IIRC), marinaded in red wine & spices and finished with cream & nuts. I think the last Indian lamb dish I made myself was Awadhi-style kofta.

[liuzhou]

I'm not disagreeing that spice mixes are used in Indian cooking. However, what is usually sold as "curry powder" isn't one of them.

[David Ross]

With respect to you. liuzhou, I don't agree that "curry powder" is such a distinct difference between Indian and faux-Indian cooking. The Indian grocers from whom I buy my spices target an ex-pat Indian audience and sell numerous spice mixes: "fish masala", "tandoori masala" and the like, which in being ready-blended ground spice mixes are, to my mind, curry powders. Likewise, North India's garam masala and the Bengali Panch Phoran are common commercial spice blends.

As for turmeric, white pepper, black pepper, coriander, ginger, cinnamon, anise, safforn, long pepper, cardamom, rose petal, nutmeg, mace, fennel, and grains of paradise... the moghul cuisine of North India and its strong connecton with imperial Persia tell me that there isn't a black-and-white distinction there either.

David, if you're looking for the basics, I believe a mix of 2/3 coriander seed, 1/3 cumin and as much chilli as you like are the most basic spice mix or "curry powder". For myself I'm eyeing various recipes along the lines of "shah jahani raan" for when I have the time. One of the most standout lamb dishes I've had was "Lamb Pasanda" at Khan's in Westbourne Grove, London - a Pat Chapman recipe I have makes it boneless lamb pounded (pasanda, IIRC), marinaded in red wine & spices and finished with cream & nuts. I think the last Indian lamb dish I made myself was Awadhi-style kofta.

Thanks, I'd love to have the Pat Chapman recipe.

[Blether]

PM'd. It does involve a recipe for blending your own "Mild Curry Powder" - either call it a masala or tell yourself it's not Indian food... in the same way that none of the Indian food you eat in the vast majority of Indian restaurants is Indian food because they use the same techniques.

You need to use boneless lamb leg in place of the beef in the recipe, it's the only cut that'll work.

Edited by Blether, 03 April 2011 - 08:14 PM.

[Jenni]

Spice blends are used in Indian cookery. However, one spice blend is not used for every dish, and also many people prefer to make their spice blends at home, often shortly before cooking a dish. Specific spice mixtures are often associated with different dishes. There are a large number of dishes just call for individual whole spices and individual ground spices rather than a specific blend such as garam masala. Then there are others, such as the South Indian dish sambar, that call for a particular masala. Still, it is better to make this yourself, preferably not long before cooking.

These days, more and more spice blends are appearing in shops in India and the UK/US to give busy working families a shortcut for making dishes quickly. These same busy home cooks may also use instant dosa mix and frozen parathas to speed up their meals - neither of which are a recommendation. If you want to make delicious traditional Indian food at home, grind your own spices. This doesn't just mean making your own garam masala, I also reccomend grinding your own coriander and cumin seeds and so on. The difference in taste is enormous.

The fact that Indian restaurants use spice blends is not really relevent - Indian restaurant food is, 9 times out of 10, a world away from home cooking. Even in India, the food that is served outside of homes is different. Many people have the feeling "who would go out to eat what they could easily make at home?"

A word on "curry powder": The blends sold in this country often not only bare little resemblence to the specific masalas (such as garam masla, goda masala, sambar podi, panch pooran) that are used in Indian cookery, they also often use more of the cheaper filler spices such as turmeric, coriander and cumin. By all means, use them if you enjoy using them. But don't rely on them to flavour all your dishes.

[liuzhou]

this country

Which country?

(although I think it's true pretty much everywhere.)

[Jenni]

I am in the UK, but it is basically true of all "curry powder" sold in the world, because it is a mixture largely sold to a Western audience. India may utilise various masalas to add pep to dishes, but curry powder was invented by the British Raj so they could add the spices they had grown to love in India to their dishes back home in England.

[liuzhou]

Totally agree. As I believe I said, curry powder is an Anglo-Indian invention. Then again most Indian restaurants and in the UK aren't Indian at all. They are Bangladeshi. And half the dishes they offer are unknown in India or Bangladesh.

[robirdstx]

...A couple Indian lamb recipes for you, from a chef named Ruta Kahate. The recipes are in her cookbook, 5 Spices, 50 Dishes. I haven't tried these two recipes, though I've cooked many of her other recipes and I've liked her food for years. A word of caution about salt in the book's recipes: it's for kosher salt, not sea salt (though it doesn't specifically say), so adjust the amount accordingly...

Lamb chops with spicy rub:

http://www.epicurean.com/featured/lamb-chops-with-a-spicy-rub-recipe.html

Thanks for the link to this recipe. My DH has been asking for Indian food and I think this will fit the bill. I already had the chops in the freezer and all of the other ingredients on hand and this lets me play work with my newest toy tool, too.