5 replies to this topic

[macrosan]

Hello Ed

Thanks for joining us. Your replies here sure are making fascinating reading, even for someone who won't get close to most of the places in the USA you talk about

Chinese (and I think most Oriental) meals are generally structured in the form of a mini-buffet, with groups of dishes in the centre of the table and diners taking small portions of two or three dishes at a time into their own bowls to eat.

It occurs to me that this creates some interesting restraints, and opportunities for Chinese meals. On the one hand, the balance of dishes becomes quite complex, ensuring an appropriate variety and quantities of vegetables, accompaniments, sauces and meat dishes. On the other hand (do I sound like Jackie Mason ?) this must give a chef exciting opportunities to mix and match components.

How is a relatively untrained diner to get the best out of this form of self-service ? Which types of dish, in what sequence, provide the best experience ? Or is it safe to assume that dishes served on the table at one time will all "go together" well ?

[eatingwitheddie]

Hello Ed

Thanks for joining us. Your replies here sure are making fascinating reading, even for someone who won't get close to most of the places in the USA you talk about  

Chinese (and I think most Oriental) meals are generally structured in the form of a mini-buffet, with groups of dishes in the centre of the table and diners taking small portions of two or three dishes at a time into their own bowls to eat.

It occurs to me that this creates some interesting restraints, and opportunities for Chinese meals. On the one hand, the balance of dishes becomes quite complex, ensuring an appropriate variety and quantities of vegetables, accompaniments, sauces and meat dishes. On the other hand (do I sound like Jackie Mason ?) this must give a chef exciting opportunities to mix and match components.

How is a relatively untrained diner to get the best out of this form of self-service ? Which types of dish, in what sequence, provide the best experience ? Or is it safe to assume that dishes served on the table at one time will all "go together" well ?

First, thanks for the compliment and second, thanks for the good question.

During my early years in the industry I worked as a captain/maitre'd at a series of high end Chinese restaurants. I have often described my job as 'food shrink.' I would talk with my clients, size them up. ascertain their level of food sophistication, what they liked and didn't like, what they felt like eating, how hungry they were, what they tried last time, and I would then make some suggestions about items I thought were really good and that seemed appropriate. When they hit on one or two they wanted to try I would then direct the conversation to what dishes would go well with what they had selected. The goal was to ying and yang their menu so that they got a good balance of items, flavors, textures and colors. Because I worked in the restaurant and knew how everything looked and tasted, it was easy for me to make sure my clients had a good experience (assuming the chefs did their jobs).

As a customer you need to think this way too. Try arranging a menu that has meat, poulty, seafood, vegetable, and starch. Try to order something, mild, something spicy, something with lots of sauce, something without sauce. If you think about things this way if will give you an approach that will work in many different kinds of restaurant situations.

Unfortunately, since many different Chinese dishes are variations on one another, it is possible to get too many similar things even though you've tried not to. That's where experience and a helpful waiter will come in handy. In most Chinese restaurants the food will be served family style unless you're pre-ordering a banquet, in which case it will be served in a sequence one course at a time

[Toby]

The way I noticed people eat family style is that everyone has a bowl of rice and picks food out of of several or more dishes in the center of the table, sort of moistens the rice with the food and then eats the bite on their chopsticks as well as the bite of rice that now has some sauce on it. They then could take a chopstickful of another dish and repeat the process. I realize that food all gets mixed together in your stomach anyway, but putting portions of several dishes on one plate always makes me nervous -- I don't like to get the flavors mixed up that way.

[cabrales]

On banquets (as opposed to other restaurant meals), particularly wedding or birthday banquets or dinners to celebrate the first month birthday of a newborn, a typical progression in today's times might be as indicated below. Note that more opulent banquets might follow a different model.

-- If suckling pig is offered or pork wrapped in lettuce is offered, the dish would tend to be presented early. Dishes that tend to be presented early also include a platter of various cold cuts (e.g., sliced pork, sliced octupus, marinated jellyfish); such a platter would be presented as the first or second dish.

-- A less thick soup would also tend to be presented early in a banquet, although in non-banquet meals the sequencing of the soup is not necessarily in the beginning in all cases. This might be something like a wintermelon hollowed up, with bouillon and various diced meats inside, or a soup with fish maw.

-- If sharks' fin is included in the menu, a soup is less likely. The sharks' fin would likely be the second or third dish in a long menu, also relatively early. Sharks' fin can be either served as soup or braised. Traditional accompaniments are: (1) vinegar, (2) bean sprouts, and (3) some type of special Chinese ham.

-- Then, I have not ascertained a necessary pattern to the remaining savory courses (e.g., seafood, meats). As Ed noted, there probably is a method to the presentation, however.

-- Typically, a combination of usually two of fried rice, fried noodles (sometimes regular, othertimes e-fu or other types), and noodles (sometimes with dumplings -- not typically wontons, but more elongated ones) is served before dessert. White rice is generally not served at this phase, although it might have been available at earlier points in the meal to accompany the savory dishes.

Edited by cabrales, 06 December 2002 - 03:50 PM.

[macrosan]

Will Chinese restaurants in NYC generally serve a banquet to one or two walk-in diners only ? Kinda like a tasting menu elsewhere, I suppose. As far as I'm aware, most in London would need a large party, and also a pre-order.

[eatingwitheddie]

On banquets (as opposed to other restaurant meals), particularly wedding or birthday banquets or dinners to celebrate the first month birthday of a newborn, a typical  progression in today's times might be as indicated below. Note that more opulent banquets might follow a different model.

-- If suckling pig is offered or pork wrapped in lettuce is offered, the dish would tend to be presented early. Dishes that tend to be presented early also include a platter of various cold cuts (e.g., sliced pork, sliced octupus, marinated jellyfish); such a platter would be presented as the first or second dish.

-- A less thick soup would also tend to be presented early in a banquet, although in non-banquet meals the sequencing of the soup is not necessarily in the beginning in all cases.  This might be something like a wintermelon hollowed up, with bouillon and various diced meats inside, or a soup with fish maw.

-- If sharks' fin is included in the menu, a soup is less likely.  The sharks' fin would likely be the second or third dish in a long menu, also relatively early.  Sharks' fin can be either served as soup or braised. Traditional accompaniments are: (1) vinegar, (2) bean sprouts, and (3) some type of special Chinese ham.

-- Then, I have not ascertained a necessary pattern to the remaining savory courses (e.g., seafood, meats). As Ed noted, there probably is a method to the presentation, however.

-- Typically, a combination of usually two of fried rice, fried noodles (sometimes regular, othertimes e-fu or other types), and noodles (sometimes with dumplings -- not typically wontons, but more elongated ones) is served before dessert.  White rice is generally not served at this phase, although it might have been available at earlier points in the meal to accompany the savory dishes.

Cabrales, thanks for the good and detailed response about course sequencing at a banquet. You're obviously not a rookie!

Yes, typically a a cold appetizer would be first, and anything that might be construed as an appetizer such as squab in lettuce follows. Then a clear soup (if there is one) or shark's fin (which is soupish) and then probably a Peking Duck. Next there is a sequence of main dishes, and towards the end a whole fish and maybe a vegetable, followed by noodles, a fancy fried rice or dumpling, and then possibly a second soup, typically a sweet one (tong sui). Sometimes a fine pastry chef will make a plate of fruits (all made from dough). Usually there is fresh fruit at the end and sometimes an 8 Precious Rice Pudding.