37 replies to this topic

[John Rosevear]

I've been making a perfectly presentable fried rice for years -- eggs, scallions, a little soy sauce or Maggi or both, whatever's in the back of the fridge, hot wok, serve. It's a staple.

But right now, I want to make Yangzhou fried rice with the texture and flavor one finds at good (US/UK) restaurants. (Not the brown stuff.)

Sounds simple, right? But my attempts so far have been less than stellar. There are clearly nuances I'm missing.

I've got char siu (or will tomorrow -- it's in marinade). I have cold cooked rice, eggs, scallions, shrimp, peas, assorted other vegetables, and the usual sauces and aromatics. Perhaps most importantly, I have a propane-fired wok burner, a well-seasoned wok, and passable technique.

Aside from "small pieces, hot wok, work fast", how should I proceed? Salt? Wine? Neutral oil, bacon grease, something else? Add egg(s) when and how?

[hzrt8w]

But right now, I want to make Yangzhou fried rice with the texture and flavor one finds at good (US/UK) restaurants. (Not the brown stuff.)

My advice:

Don't use Fresh garlic
Don't use Oyster sauce
Don't use Shallots
Don't use Bean sprouts

how should I proceed? Salt? Wine? Neutral oil, bacon grease, something else? Add egg(s) when and how?

My advice:

Cook the shrimp first. Remove.

Eggs - be beaten in a bowl. A little bit of oil in a hot wok... pour in the beaten eggs... stir fast. Cook the eggs a little bit fluffy.

You may remove the eggs and add them back to the fried rice later on. Or... at the restaurants... the cook would add the cooked steamed rice while the eggs are still in the wok. Stir fry until the rice is hot. Add all other ingredients (shrimp, chopped char siu, scallions, peas, etc.. (Not sure what your "assorted vegetables are". The Hong Kong style Yangzhou Fried Rice doesn't contain much vegetable. Diced cooked carrots yes.) Dash in the light soy sauce near the end.

Advice: no salt, no wine. MSG if you like.

Edited by hzrt8w, 07 November 2010 - 05:16 PM.

[sheetz]

And don't skimp on the oil! You don't want it to be swimming in grease like bad Chinese takeout, but you do want the oil to more than simply coat the wok.

[hzrt8w]

I think peanut oil is best. If not, corn oil is okay. Or vegetable oil. Or canola or others.

Someone commented on the "brown stuff" thread to use sesame oil. It seems to be an Americanized version of Chinese food. They squirt sesame oil on everything. It seems as if sesame oil is synonymous to Chinese food. Some food show hosts especially. When they feel like making Chinese food, they would be obligated to squeeze in some sesame oil at the end.

[John Rosevear]

My advice:

Don't use Fresh garlic
Don't use Oyster sauce
Don't use Shallots
Don't use Bean sprouts

Not a chance. (Not sesame oil, either.)

I wasn't planning on using a lot of vegetables, actually. The best version I've had recently (in Boston) had peas, scallions, and finely diced Chinese celery. I'll try carrots.

Light peanut oil seems like the way to go, and I won't skimp. No salt, really? I could try a pinch of MSG, though that seems like cheating. Thanks!

[CFT]

I don't see a problem with a bit of salt unless you have strict requirements for health issues. The problem with veg. is moisture. You don't want too much otherwise you get soggy fried rice.

I've seen recipes where the beaten egg is stirred in at the end so that "each grain" is coated with egg. But I'm guessing most people like to see "chunks" of egg.

I think sesame oil can go quite nicely in fried rice. I think that because it is a lower volatility oil, if your add some right at the end, it can carry some nice aromas - it should enhance the shrimp at the very least.

[liuzhou]

Most versions here in China also have chopped cheap sausage meat. Think Spam!

Peanut oil or lard.Can't think of any reason not to use fresh garlic, but certainly no oyster sauce.

Certainly slightly undercook the egg separately and add just before serving unless you like rubber. Peanut oil or lard.

[hzrt8w]

The recommendation for no salt is because:

1) you are already using light soy sauce, which is salty. If you use salt, need to adjust the amount so the fried rice will not be overly salty.
2) most ingredients for the fried rice are dry. There is no moisture to dissolve the salt. Salt will likely remain in grain form and scattered in the rice. (So is the MSG actually)


Reason for cooking the eggs first or separately:

- if you add beaten eggs to the rice already cooking in the wok, the rice will soak up the water content of the eggs before they turn cooked. Result would be lumps of rice. Good fried rice is fluffy. Individual rice grains are separated, and not lumped together.
- eggs will not turn dead hard as you pour the cooked steamed rice in the wok. After that time the rice would take up most of the heat.


Vegetables:

- the issue is with cooking time and like CFT said: water moisture. Vegetable takes longer to cook than frying rice. If you want vegetables... advice is to cook them (undercooked slightly) separately and toss them in at the last minute.


Sesame oil:

- sure you can add sesame oil or any other ingredients to please yourself. It's a matter of whether you want to be faithful to the recipe/style. (And "Yeung Chow" fried rice is just a Cantonese's rendition of a non-Cantonese style anyway. LOL)

[Prawncrackers]

Folks, i cooked some fried rice tonight on the first day of my eG Foodblog. Little did I know you were discussing here! I'd like to echo that good fried rice needs nothing wet other than oil, eggs and soy. Though I'm partial to a little fresh garlic and ginger with mine. Oh and am I the only one who mixes the raw eggs with the cooked rice first?

[Dejah]

You probably are the only one, Prawn
I've been known to leave out the egg while cooking, and just add it into a depression in a plate of fresh hot fried rice, mix quickly, and have "wat chow fan".

I always thought Yangzhou fried rice had Chinese sauage?

[nakji]

See, I always thought the key to Yangzhou fried rice was the shrimp?

[Dejah]

It seems everyone has their own version! I was just checking out a Youtube Epicurious episode for this fried rice. I've never had it with oyster sauce, but this made by Chef Shirley Cheng of the Culinary Institute of America used oyster sauce. It also had fresh mushrooms, ham, peas and scallions. I'd think that oyster sauce would be too heavy and strong for this dish because it has so many other flavours - char sui or lap cheong, and the milder shrimp. I don't even add soy sauce, but in the restaurant, we added a tiny splash of light soy only because my Canadian customers rhink colour is beautiful - NOT brown, just beige.

[Ben Hong]

In our restaurants a long time ago, no one makes yeungchow fried rice the same twice in a row. You use whatever is at hand, as long as the procedure and main ingredients are relatively similar in each production. Rice, egg, char siu, (or other bits of meat), green peas and carrot bits (right out of the freezer bag), chopped onions, scallions, seasonings (no oyster sauce) AND (drums please) a small handful of bean sprouts mixed in at the very end. It's the colours, momma, and the textures. Also, a bit of garlic never hurts.

It seems that I have broken every caveat someone listed.

[abooja]

I could try a pinch of MSG, though that seems like cheating.

I thought that MSG was a no no for gluten intolerant folks.

[nakji]

No salt, really? I could try a pinch of MSG, though that seems like cheating. Thanks!

A little chicken stock sizzled around the edges of the wok? Not enough to soggy the rice, but for flavour?

[sheetz]

I think Yangzhou fried rice is like Mapo Dofu--one of those classic Chinese dishes that everyone has their own version of. I like a little sesame oil on my fried rice and I mix a little water in with the eggs so they don't turn too rubbery. Instead of salt, soy sauce, and msg I sprinkle a little of the chicken boullion powder (gasp!) they sell in all the Chinese markets.

[nakji]

I sprinkle a little of the chicken boullion powder (gasp!) they sell in all the Chinese markets.

I keep a tin of that powder on my stove by the wok. Knorr. In a perfect world, I'd have a pot of actual stock going that I could just ladle in.

[hzrt8w]

Now wait... wait... wait...

Are we still in a quest for specifically, as named in the title, YangZhou Fried Rice? I assume this is referring to the YangZhou ("Yeung Chow" in Cantonese) fried rice as known to be served in Hong Kong or Hong Kong style restaurants.

Sure when you cook your own meal, you can do anything you want.

Chinese sausage, vegetables, mushroom, ham, bean sprouts, oyster sauce, sesame oil, garlic or no garlic, chicken broth or chicken boullion powder. And I suppose you can cook it with chicken, fish, lamb, beef, oyster or whatever that strikes your fancy. But wouldn't you call it your own "something fried rice"?


This is the original premise from the OP:

I want to make Yangzhou fried rice with the texture and flavor one finds at good (US/UK) restaurants. (Not the brown stuff.)

So... is this still the quest?

And when have you seen Chinese sausage used in "YangZhou Fried Rice" in a restaurant?

If I make a Rueben Sandwich with chicken breast and ketchup and mayo... is it still called a Rueben Sandwich?

Edited by hzrt8w, 09 November 2010 - 12:29 AM.

[nakji]

Agreed.

But doesn't Yangzhou fried rice have a salt/chicken stock/MSG element in it?

[Dejah]

I guess we'll just have to wait for hzrt8w's next trip to Hong Kong to send us samples of the "authentic version"

I have had lapcheung in mine - in some restaurant, somewhere (Vancouver? Toronto?). I can see using lapcheung at home IF there was no char siu on hand.

"If I make a Rueben Sandwich with chicken breast and ketchup and mayo... is it still called a Rueben Sandwich?"

I think the Rueben statement is a bit too far out as comparison. The fried rice with a variation of meat (chat siu or lapcheung or Chinese ham?)at least would still have some semblance. You could still tell it is something fried rice, and COULD be Yangchow fried rice. But with chicken breast, you KNOW it's not a Rueben on sight...I hope.

[jsager01]

There are probably almost as many variations of Yangzhou fried rice as there are Chinese restaurants in US/UK, probably more so among the 'good' restaurants than the greasy take-outs. However, it is a good bet that the Yangzhou fried rice served in US/UK have their origins in HongKong/Guangzhou. In Cantonese restaurant banquets, it is quite commonly served as the last dish before desserts.

However, there are claims that Yangzhou fried rice originated from Yangzhou as in 扬州 in Jiangsu province, and those looking for 'authentic' may have to seek out restaurants or recipes from that part of China. Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has been there and had 'authentic' Yangzhou. In any case, as Jiangsu cuisine is in a different school of cuisine from Guangzhou, it would not be surprising that what you get in 扬州 is different from the norm in Guangzhou/HK/US/UK (or for that matter, what you get - in terms of restaurant food - in China or even HongKong is more often than not quite different from what you get in US/UK/Europe).

The point I am trying to make is that it is probably better for the OP to identify the specific textures and flavors (and ingredients) that he likes and enjoys in US/UK restaurants, and strive to attain those characteristics, rather than search for the ultimate US/UK restaurant recipe or technique for making Yangzhou fried rice at home.

For example, if you want the texture to be 'crispy' ie with each grain separated and identifiable, and also have each grain coated with egg, then obviously you do not pre-fry the egg. I would whisk the egg, and just before dishing up whatever is in the wok, create a 'well' in the wok, add the beaten egg, wait for a few seconds, and then stir like hell (and flip the contents in the wok, but only if you have mastered the technique) to get each grain covered with the egg and all the flavors of the other ingredients. The presence of egg should be barely discernible, and then only through taste or color, ie you hardly see any egg fragments - do this if thats your preference.

If you do not wish to use MSG but still wish to enhance the flavor then swirl some chicken stock - home made? - into the rice, as already suggested in earlier posts. If you prefer to use only salt and not soya sauce, then add salt before adding the chicken stock, or dissolve salt in the chicken stock before swirling it into the rice. This will address the problem that the salt may not dissolve evenly. I do not use soya sauce as I want to retain the color of each ingredient, and do not want any of those overall brownish or even light tan color over everything in the fried rice. The color of the rice grains should only be tinged with an eggy yellow, but that's my preference.

Yes, eggs and chicken stock do add moisture to the fried rice and can make it soggy. However, the trick is to prep the rice so that it is dehydrated enough that it can withstand and actually gain from the addition of eggs and stock, and be rehydrated without the rice going soggy. I call it 'twice cooked rice'. The other benefit of adding eggs and stock or some moisture is that it helps to even out the flavor of the various ingredients.

I usualy use peanut oil, for obvious reasons, but will ocassionally use home rendered pork lard... when i am trying to impress guests with my cooking prowess :-)). For flavor in fried rice, there is nothing like lard, assuming your body can take it and/or your GP will not dis-own you. The peanut oil i get here has too strong a flavor and I usually throw in some garlic while the oil is hheating up, and remove it before adding any other ingredients.

[nakji]

I'm living in Jiangsu right now, and I asked a chef acquaintance of mine for guidance earlier this evening. He said, "Garlic, ginger, scallions to start, and salt in a home wok; at the end in a restaurant wok. Rice; chopped green beans (peas too expensive); carrot if you like. Prawns optional if you have them. Egg last. No soy."

I think I could talk him into demo'ing it for me, if there were interest.

[hzrt8w]

I guess we'll just have to wait for hzrt8w's next trip to Hong Kong to send us samples of the "authentic version"
I have had lapcheung in mine - in some restaurant, somewhere (Vancouver? Toronto?). I can see using lapcheung at home IF there was no char siu on hand.

No need to wait. Here is a picture of the Yangzhou Fried Rice in Hong Kong. Circa early 2010



In Hong Kong, it is pretty consistent just about everywhere you eat:

Shrimp, char siu, egg, green onions

[sheetz]

I don't know, hzrt8w, I swear I can see a few drops of sesame over there in the corner of that plate...

Just for kicks I looked up Eileen Yin Fei Lo's receipe for YZ Fried Rice in her book, "The Chinese Kitchen." Here's what she puts in her "authentic" YZ Fried Rice:

shrimp
eggs
char siu
soy sauce
rice wine
salt
sugar
oyster sauce
sesame oil
white pepper
ginger
garlic
scallions

OTOH, there are people who claim YZ Fried Rice should only be seasoned with salt.

Edited by sheetz, 09 November 2010 - 04:38 PM.

[hzrt8w]

There are probably almost as many variations of Yangzhou fried rice as there are Chinese restaurants in US/UK, probably more so among the 'good' restaurants than the greasy take-outs. However, it is a good bet that the Yangzhou fried rice served in US/UK have their origins in HongKong/Guangzhou. In Cantonese restaurant banquets, it is quite commonly served as the last dish before desserts.

However, there are claims that Yangzhou fried rice originated from Yangzhou as in 扬州 in Jiangsu province, and those looking for 'authentic' may have to seek out restaurants or recipes from that part of China. Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has been there and had 'authentic' Yangzhou. In any case, as Jiangsu cuisine is in a different school of cuisine from Guangzhou, it would not be surprising that what you get in 扬州 is different from the norm in Guangzhou/HK/US/UK (or for that matter, what you get - in terms of restaurant food - in China or even HongKong is more often than not quite different from what you get in US/UK/Europe).

This is getting sticky...

I don't know the origin of this "YangZhou Fried Rice". Did it really refer to the YangZhou in JiangSu province? Not sure. It can be a YangZhou influenced/style fried rice as made in Hong Kong. It is getting sticky when one seeks to root out the origin of a recipe.

For example there is a popular dish "Chow Gwai Dil" (= Char Kway Teow in Cantonese pronounciation) in Hong Kong. Mimicing what's popular in Malaysia/Singapore. But the Hong Kong version uses curry powder and no soy sauce. So it is a Hong Konger's rendition of a Malaysian/Singaporean dish, which has its root back from Mainland China. Which one is "authentic"?

It seems that if you order "YangZhou Fried Rice" from Chinese Diaspora - UK, US, Canada, Europe, Australia, etc., you may have many variations. Maybe anything goes, depending on the availability of ingredients on hand and the local tastes. And let alone any home cooking version of this recipe.

But I can tell you this, based on my 20+ years of dining experiences in Hong Kong. If you order a YangZhou Fried Rice in any restaurant in Hong Kong, you can pretty much come to expect... and it's been very consistent:

Shrimp, diced char siu (BBQ pork), eggs, green onions, a pinch of MSG

Fluffy, not soggy. Bouncy. Rice slightly yellow. Not dark brown. No garlic. No vegetable except maybe green peas or small diced up carrots.

Edited by hzrt8w, 09 November 2010 - 05:06 PM.

[John Rosevear]

I could try a pinch of MSG, though that seems like cheating.

I thought that MSG was a no no for gluten intolerant folks.

No, it's fine (well, as fine as it is for anyone). "Glutamate" isn't wheat gluten.

[John Rosevear]

Shrimp, diced char siu (BBQ pork), eggs, green onions, a pinch of MSG

Fluffy, not soggy. Bouncy. Rice slightly yellow. Not dark brown. No garlic. No vegetable except maybe green peas or small diced up carrots.

And that's exactly what I made tonight, with the homemade char siu. Peanut oil, no soy sauce. The flavor of the char siu in the oil was the key I'd been missing. It was excellent (and yes, gluten-free, though that's probably another thread). Thanks to all.

[abooja]

I thought that MSG was a no no for gluten intolerant folks.

No, it's fine (well, as fine as it is for anyone). "Glutamate" isn't wheat gluten.

Just one last comment on this subject...

While I realize that glutamate isn't the same thing as gluten, I was under the impression that it was sometimes derived from wheat gluten. Apparently, this is no longer the case. My apologies for the distraction.

Oh, and thanks for starting this discussion. hzrt8w's description of YangZhou fried rice sounds like precisely the type I enjoy the most. I'm going to have to give it another shot.

[CFT]

Just for kicks I looked up Eileen Yin Fei Lo's receipe for YZ Fried Rice in her book, "The Chinese Kitchen." Here's what she puts in her "authentic" YZ Fried Rice:

shrimp
eggs
char siu
soy sauce
rice wine
salt
sugar
oyster sauce
sesame oil
white pepper
ginger
garlic
scallions

She's thrown everything bar the kitchen sink at it! Half the seasoning ingredients are not required IMO.

[Karri]

What I saw this old, old, old, old taiwanese lady do was she fried everything else together, and once the fried rice was done she moved all the rice to the sides of the wok so that the middle was exposed, she poured in a little oil and added a beaten egg mixture, she flashfried it for about 20 seconds and then she mixed it all up again. Best fried rice of my life. The egg was not coating the rice, but it was incorporated in the fried rice.