8 replies to this topic

[Suvir Saran]

Ed,

What would be your recipe or understanding of a perfect stock in Chinese Cuisine.

How is it made?

Where are stocks used and how?

What differentiates a good stock from a not so good one?

And while we are talking stocks and inferring maybe to soups would you share any insight into Double Boiled Soups. Where can one fine good soup like this in NYC? I was in Singapore and had some great Double Boiled Soups. Not sure how I can find these here in NYC.

[Suvir Saran]

Chicken Stock Thread

Just in case you have interest and or time, the thread above is about chicken stock.

But most of all, I think I want to understand how you would make your stock for soups and other preparations.

[eatingwitheddie]

Ed,

What would be your recipe or understanding of a perfect stock in Chinese Cuisine.

How is it made?

Where are stocks used and how?

What differentiates a good stock from a not so good one?

And while we are talking stocks and inferring maybe to soups would you share any insight into Double Boiled Soups.  Where can one fine good soup like this in NYC? I was in Singapore and had some great Double Boiled Soups. Not sure how I can find these here in NYC.

CHICKEN STOCK & THE CHINESE KITCHEN

A good stock is the basis for good food. While not all dishes require it, many sauces and soups use a meat and/or poultry stock as a foundation.

I typically prepare a white chicken stock and sometimes I may add some pork bones to it.

My basic recipe is simplicity itself: I fill a large stock pot with chicken bones (back, necks, and frames), cover them with cold water and bring them to a boil over high heat. As soon as the stock comes to a boil I quickly remove any scum that floats to the top. I want the water to boil hard, but just for the first couple of minutes. This is to bring up all the albumin that needs to be removed. Ususally I push the bones around a couple of times so anything trapped underneath them will float to the top and can be spooned away. I immediately turn the heat down as low as it goes, so that stock will just be at a simmer, and cook it for 2-3 hours, the longer the better. After the first hour I will add a couple of slices of ginger and a little scallion. If the soup bubbles very gently it will turn out quite clear. Strain the stock through a fine strainer and remove any fat that has floated to the surface. Then refrigerate until ready to use. Once the stock is chilled any remaing fat will solidify and be easy to remove. Additionally there will be some sediment at the bottom. Leave it there by gently pouring off the soup you need it.

FORTIFIED STOCKS

A straight chicken stock made with a large amount of bones will give very good results, but sometimes in the Chinese kitchen we want to add an extra richness or an additional flavor dimension and we create a fortified or double boiled stock. There are a few ways to do this.

1) Chicken - After making a basic chicken stock we might take a whole chicken and cook it in that stock (taking great care to frequently skim and keep the stock quite clear) and thereby create a double strength (boiled) stock. It is not uncommon with this sort of preparation to actually discard the whole chicken and just consume its broth. I might make a stock like this for my Jewish cooking as well (no ginger/scallion but instead celery,carrots, onion, leek, parsley, parsnip, dill and happy matzoh balls)

2) Chicken flavored with seafood - In other posts I have mentioned the shrimp & watercress dumplings at NY's Sweet & Tart Restaurant. They are served in a very clear soup. It is a delicious chicken stock that has been flavored with shrimp. There are different techniques for doing this. My friend, Arun Sampanthaviat, the renowned Thai chef, grew up eating fine Chinese cooking which he still enjoys today. He cooks staff meal in his Chicago restaurant and usually makes Chinese food. He will make separate stocks from dried shrimp or squid, and when he's looking to flavor a chicken stock he will mix in some of the shrimp or squid stock to create the flavor he is looking for. Other chefs take shrimp shells and roast them, make a stock form them, and then they add this shrimp stock to the chicken stock base.

3) Stocks made in a Yunnan Steamer Pot Flavored with mushrooms or ham - A Yunnan Steamer Pot is a covered ceramic dish that has a funnel in its base. When the pot is placed in a steamer, steam travels up the funnel and condenses on the lid's underside and is trapped in the pot. To make a classic and rich tasting double boiled soup in this method we fill the pot with stock and then add flavorings: most often this would be either pieces of Smithfield Ham (in China they would use Yunnan Ham) or dried shitake mushrooms. Sometimes there are are some additional pieces of chicken or maybe all three. i especially like eating a double boiled stock that is flavored with ham. The smokiness comes through in a suble but delcious way. A stock like this is often referred to on menus as a 'Superior Stock'.

At the Sun Sai Wah Restaurant in Vancouver, BC they seem to only use a superior stock in their cooking. A rare and delicious thing to encounter! A sure sign of great quality.

[mamster]

Hey, Ed, if you don't mind revisiting this thread, what do you like to order at Sun Sui Wah when you're not having dim sum?

[eatingwitheddie]

Hey, Ed, if you don't mind revisiting this thread, what do you like to order at Sun Sai Wah when you're not having dim sum?

I just recently visited Vancouver for the first time. My 3 visits there were all during lunch and unfortunately there were only 2 of us. My guess is that everything there is worth trying (I usually cringe when someone says everything is good). I had their famous squab, the one dish they promote, and it could not have better. I also had an ordinary pan-fried noodle and it was cooked with a slightly smokey superior stock which elevated to really special level. Live seafood would certainly be high on the list: especially local and/or live stuff: crab, lobster, clams. oysters, santa barbara prawns etc. Bring money! Next time I head in your direction, which may not me too long because I have a kid in college in Olympia, I'll contact you - maybe you want to take a little ride!

Ed

[Toby]

And while we are talking stocks and inferring maybe to soups would you share any insight into Double Boiled Soups.  Where can one fine good soup like this in NYC? I was in Singapore and had some great Double Boiled Soups. Not sure how I can find these here in NYC.

Suvir, double boiled soups are not so hard to make at home. You can either use a good stock as the base or just water. You put the liquid into a pot that will fit inside a larger pot along with the ingredients you want to use, and cover the smaller pot. You place the smaller pot on a steamer tray or rack and add water to the larger pot just to reach the bottom of the smaller pot and then you cover the larger pot and cook for several hours (adding water if necessary). You're really steaming the soup. You can also buy a porcelain double-boil soup container in Chinatown and do it the traditional way, by placing the closed container into a larger container of boiling water coming halfway up the sides of the smaller pot, which is kept simmering over low to medium heat for 3-4 hours so as to cook the food in the inner pot.

Some ideas for double-boiled soup are squab and ginseng (believed to be restorative); chicken chopped through the bone with dried mushrooms and/or ginger; chicken feet, red dates, peanuts and dried mushrooms; chicken chopped through the bone with ginger and rice wine; black skinned chicken with slices of dried Chinese yam, ginger, wolfberries, and a little sliced pork.

I've just dug up a cookbook of nutritious Chinese recipes -- there's a whole chapter on double-boiled soups with recipes for sea cucumber and scallop soup; herbal mutton soup; shark's fin with Chinese cabbage hearts; chicken and walnut soup;,Chinese pears with almonds; turtle soup with herbs; snow fungus soup; chicken stuffed with pomelo; abalone, chicken and ginseng soup; pig's spleen with corn silk; winter melon and duck gizzard soup; pig's brain and chicken feet soup; bird's nest soup; pigeon with fish maw; oxtail soup; dried scallop soup; pig feet and black bean soup; and some others that are kind of too yucky to think about.

[Kerouac1964]

Toby --

Could I get the title, author, publisher info from the cookbook you are referencing? I've been heavily involved in Chinese cooking for over 3 months straight, and have reached the point of needing to purchase further reference materials!

Ed --

This Q & A has been outstanding. My mouth keeps watering everytime I come back to read new posts in the various threads !!

[Toby]

Toby --

Could I get the title, author, publisher info from the cookbook you are referencing?  I've been heavily involved in Chinese cooking for over 3 months straight, and have reached the point of needing to purchase further reference materials! 

Secrets of Nutritional Chinese Cookery, by Ng Siong Mui, Landmark Books, Singapore, 1988. No idea if this is still in print; I got it in a used book store about 10 years ago; the list price was $25.00. Other books I looked at for double-boiled soup were The Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen, by Grace Young, Simon & Schuster, 1999; A Spoonful of Ginger, by Nina Simonds, Knopf, 1999. My favorite Chinese cookbook is Chinese Gastronomy by Hsiang Ju Lin & Tsuifeng Lin, Perigree Books (Putnam), reprint 1982 -- don't know if this is still in print or not.

[awbrig]

I hate making stocks personally - takes too long, makes a mess etc...

I have been buying my chicken and beef stock from Williams Sonoma (jars) lately and have been pretty happy...

Edited by awbrig, 03 December 2002 - 08:24 PM.