Edited by Indirect Heat, 31 July 2010 - 03:52 PM.
Posted 31 July 2010 - 03:50 PM
Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:54 PM
Posted 01 August 2010 - 03:13 AM
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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:22 PM
A little perspective: The cookbooks that introduced much of the US to practical pasta making (and other delights of Northern Italian cooking), and paved way for these other recent authors, were Marcella Hazan's Classic Italian Cookbook (1973) and its sequel (1978). Reissued more recently (but in abridged form) as a single volume.
Marcella Hazan was to N. Italian cooking in the US what Julia Child was to French (and unlike Julia Child, who wasn't from France and who started cooking about age 40, Hazan grew up cooking in the milieu she wrote about). Marcella's books surface periodically here, as in this and this thread.
Recent thread on variations of homemade pasta recipes.
"A properly made ragů clinging to the folds of homemade noodles is one of the most pleasurable experiences accessible to the sense of taste." -- Marcella Hazan, 1973
Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:40 PM
Edited by eac, 01 August 2010 - 12:57 PM.
Posted 01 August 2010 - 05:07 PM
I'm not surprised at all to hear that Paul Bertolli would do a good job of this. (Like Marcella Hazan, he had Italian ancestry and grew up seeing its cooking in action. He also worked professionally in Italy.) Locally he is perhaps even better known (before Oliveto) as the low-key longest-tenure chef of Chez Panisse in Berkeley (1980s-1990s). With Alice Waters he co-authored Chez Panisse Cooking (1988) which opens with recollections of his Italian grandmother's cooking.
Posted 01 August 2010 - 06:18 PM
That said, Bertolli's Chez Panisse book is definitely the best of the Chez Panisse cookbooks.
Posted 01 August 2010 - 07:09 PM
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Posted 01 August 2010 - 11:50 PM
I've only made Bertolli's doughs a couple times though (the semolina and water as well as the whole egg pasta), But I'd love to here your experience working with the dough. I'd love to see a video of him making the dough. He has a lot of great information in the book, but the recipes themselves are VERY skimpy on detail of what to look for.
I have Bugali on Pasta as well and think it's a a much better book for most people, with a lot of detail, drawings of the rolling proceedures, a lot of great recipes. Of course if you're a 5%er then and want to grind your flour, make your own version of Italian cured meats or sun dried tomato paste. Well Bertolli's your guy.
Posted 02 August 2010 - 07:18 AM
Posted 02 August 2010 - 10:15 AM
Without a specific quotation, the "your" is slightly mysterious. But if it's of interest, the fairly recent thread I mentioned (see correction below) on fresh noodles discusses dough stiffness, I mention my technique of combined kneading and adding flour, which automatically brings the dough to the consistency you want. (Beware any recipes specifying fixed ratios of flour to eggs! even by weight! it doesn't work like that. Not only do "eggs" vary over considerable range in volume, but flour properties also vary, even different lots of the same brand.)
I'd love to here your experience working with the dough.
Correction: Above I cited a "Recent thread" on fresh pasta variations ("Praising freshly made noodles"). The link above is wrong, and someone also evidently merged and re-named my thread later, which I didn't know, so my archived links to it are bad too; but a little archeology surfaced the late-2009 postings in question, especially This One (I'm referring to Post #98 in that thread's current numbering, 20-Nov-2009), now part of a general fresh-pasta thread.
Further discussion of making pasta (maybe even of books) belongs on that thread, joining existing eG contributions on the subject. Also, newcomers to this specialty may want to review that whole thread before repeating ground already covered there.
Posted 07 August 2010 - 02:22 PM
Posted 07 August 2010 - 02:54 PM
Bugalli Whole egg pasta
P.Bertolli Whole egg Pasta
water 5 %
Posted 13 August 2010 - 02:46 PM
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Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:38 AM
Posted 14 August 2010 - 10:19 AM
... My experience is that it yields a VERY dense dough that is difficult to work with.
I haven't "been there" - not least because he is
-- using a very specific ("Artisan") flour
-- and he is trying to make "flat pasta with a very firm bite and superb flavour" (p97) when he uses that flour.
Like he says, tweak things for your flour, and your goal.
If the dough is cracking, it needs a drop more hydration.
If you are trying to make pasta with a "very firm bite", I'd expect it to be very (physically) hard work.
My guess is that Bertolli is deliberately trying to make just about the firmest fresh pasta he can, and so is working with the very minimum of hydration, fat and lecithin.
I don't think Bertolli is suggesting this as a 'go-to' pasta recipe for everyone. Rather it produces what he is looking for. And if you are trying to exactly reproduce his product - don't expect it to be easy!
Its all a continuum, more or less egg, water, flour-protein, oil ...
And note that, additional to the measured quantities, most pasta recipes expect considerable (usually unaccounted) flour pick-up during kneading and rolling.
These recipes aren't tablets of stone.
Roll your own!
100g flour to each egg is a fairly standard starting point. Then tweak it to your taste, your flour, your eggs, etc ...
Right now, I'm reading a lot of good sense in Katie Caldesi's "The Italian Cookery Course" (Is it called 'Cook Italy' in the USA? - ADDED - Yes and it has been deliberately 'improved' with volume measures instead of metric weights! Oh dear ...)
Interesting (retrospectively obvious) point about surface texture - hand rolling on the exposed grain of a well-worn wooden tabletop (or a floured Italian tablecloth) produces a textured, sauce-grabbing surface, quite unlike that produced by smooth metal rollers.
So, maybe ideally a final 'texturizing' pass, by hand, on something less smooth than the melamine worktop? (I had a linen proofing 'couche' once upon a time, I wonder where its hiding?)
And I also rather like Rose Gray and Ruth Rogers' River Cafe Pocket Books: Pasta & Ravioli. This is cheap/small/handy - valid reasons for republishing themed collections of recipes. Their standard dough for filled pasta (therefore ideally nice and supple) involves 500g of Tipo 00 (itself hardly an exact spec) to 4 medium eggs PLUS 6 yolks from medium eggs, a bit of salt and an allowance of 50g of semolina (durum) flour for dusting. They suggest about 10 minutes in the mixer with the dough hook to get it smooth, a brief hand knead and then an hour's rest before starting the rolling. Even then, they want ten passes (with doubling folds) to get the dough "silky" before starting to reduce the roller spacing!
Very rich fare at The River Café!
Edited by heidih, 14 August 2010 - 01:15 PM.
Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:20 PM
The formula is soo different it seemingly has to be genius or unworkable and I can't figure out which?!
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