25 replies to this topic

[Dakki]

So as I understand it, there's two schools regarding kitchen knives: those who say you need the right tool for the job and those who say you can do anything with the chef's, paring and (sometimes) bread knives. I think I belong to the second category, at least when helping others with gentle suggestions ("You're seriously going to buy a Cutco 34 piece set? Were you dropped on your head as an infant?") but there's a couple of extra knives I use in the kitchen.

These are the knives I reach for when I don't reach for the aforementioned three:

Junky knife from the dollar store: The first kitchen knife I ever bought, back when I moved out from my parents' house well over a decade ago. It's shaped roughly like a chef's but never had nearly enough "belly" and was only 6" long to boot. These days it's nearly unrecognizable in shape, due to my grinding out nicks and chips from the edge over the years. It lost about 1/4" from the tip when I dropped it on the floor once and now sports a cool "tanto-style" profile. I keep it sharp but it won't hold an edge very long, which helps me practice my sharpening skills. This one lives in my knife block, and gets used for cutting cardboard and rope and by clumsy guests who want to help in the kitchen.

Swiss Army "Soldier": You know how you can go to someone's house for a BBQ, offer to help with the food prep and the sharpest thing they own is the chisel in the garage? A well-sharpened pocketknife can help! This one lives on my keyring. I like the Soldier model because its not so bulky it's uncomfortable to keep in my pocket all day, and Swiss Army knives are associated with benevolent things like the Boy Scouts and MacGuyver by non-knife people who might feel threatened by one of the more "tactical" folders.

Small chef's knife: I suppose this is a bit of a cheat because it's a chef's but still. I find the 10" chef's is just too unwieldy to finely mince small amounts of ingredients (such as garlic) so I use a 6" "Alton's Angles" Shun I got on sale. The angle on the handle makes the knife act as if it had a lot more "belly" than the shape of the blade by itself would, which I think helps a lot in quickly mincing things. I understand mezzalunas are made for this purpose and Messermeister makes a special knife for just this purpose as well.

Boning knife: I like to buy large bone-in cuts of meat for stirfries and stews and screwed things up enough times with the 10" chef's that I got a knife just for this purpose. It makes things far easier, with much less meat left on the bones.

So what do you guys use when you don't use a chef's, bread or paring knife?

[nibor]

I have a cleaver.

[Marlene]

I use a Miso UX10 petty knife for most small mincing jobs, garlic or onions etc.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Boning knives for boning, one 5" stiff and a 7" flexible. I bought the long flexible boning knife specifically for removing the breast from a roasted turkey before slicing it across the grain, but it's also good for slicing gravlax and other smoked fish.

Slicing knives can generally slice meat thinner than a chef's knife, so I've got one more curved one and one longer straight one.

I recently picked up a Wusthof offset sandwich knife with a reverse scalloped blade, and I'm kind of ambivalent about it. It's very sharp, and it has more or less replaced my regular scalloped bread knife, but the edge is always collapsing. Unlike regular scalloped blades, it can be honed with a steel to keep the edge straight, but it seems to require a lot of maintenance for a serrated knife. My parents have an older Henckels bread knife with a blade like a hacksaw blade. No one seems to make that anymore.

Edited by David A. Goldfarb, 20 January 2010 - 10:30 AM.

[Chris Amirault]

Aside from the basic three (chef's, paring, cleaver), I've only added one knife to my collection that I reach for regularly -- more often than any other, in fact: this Gekko nakiri knife. It can't do everything -- no bones, please -- but it does the things I do most often better than any other knife.

[Dakki]

Chris - I have the exact same knife, as well as the 10" chef's and a santoku by the same makers. The chef's just seems to get used much more. What do you do with yours that you wouldn't do with the chef's?

[Chris Amirault]

Almost everything related to vegetable and protein prep. The curved end means that you can rock with it to mince -- though if you practice your Japanese knife techniques, you can get a finer, more even mince (or dice or...) with this sharp, thin blade.

The only things I still do exclusively with chef's knives (Wustor, Henckels, Shun Ken Onion) is breakdown chickens or and anything else that requires a point and heft. But when I've got to prep mirepoix or cut potatoes into large dice or whatever, I grab the nakiri.

ETA: I neglected to say why! Among many other things (ability to hold an edge, thin blade, handle), I'm particularly enamored of the long, straight edge, which enables me to use nearly the entire blade for chopping. When I slice through a big onion, the entire cutting edge comes into contact with the cutting board, meaning that I didn't leave little strands of scallion or spinach still connected.

Edited by Chris Amirault, 20 January 2010 - 10:57 AM.

[therippa]

My boning knife gets used pretty regularly, and since I bought my cleaver I've been using the weight advantage of it for various things (using the spine to crack lobster claws for instance, way easier than using the spine of a chef's knife)

[Dakki]

Chris - thanks, is there an online tutorial on the Japanese knife techniques you mentioned? Maybe I'm not getting the most out of my Japanese-style knives because I just don't know how to use them right.

EDIT: I see what you mean with the straight edge and the strands, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for me with the chef's. I rock it from the tip towards the back, with a spot always in contact with the board, and a small rearwards movement throughout so it cuts as a "slice" as well as a "push cut". I don't know if it's technically correct and it took some practice until I could do it automatically but it gives me clean cuts and it's adequately fast.

Edited by Dakki, 20 January 2010 - 11:08 AM.

[paulraphael]

I used to be of the single-honkin'-german-chef's-knife-to-do-everything school. Over the last couple of years I started learning about Japanese knives and the associated sharpening and cutting techniques, and have become a convert.

I still try to be a minimalist, but I use a couple more knives than I used to. The slight additional complexity is made up for by the huge improvement in results and efficiency. And fun. I like doing prep now.

My #1 knife is 270mm Ikkanshi Tadatsuna Gyuto, which is the most high performance knife I've ever had in my hands. I've had to throw out virtually all my hard-won European cutting techniques in favor of much more delicate Japanese techniques, because the blade is not designed for man-handling. What it does, though is stunning: it falls through the food under its own weight, even though it weighs half as much as my German knife. It makes such clean cuts that food stays fresh longer. Sometimes hours or even days longer. This thing has gotten me to completely rethink everything about prep. A five pound pile of onions or apples doesn't seem like a chore anymore; it seems like martial arts practice.

For the things that the gyuto won't do, like lopping off fish heads, chopping chocolate, and rock-chopping woody herbs, I still love my old 8" german knife (a cool Eberhard Schaaf Goldhamster, that has just been improved by Dave Martell, who ground down the bolster). This is a knife I can hand to a guest cook without too much fear of disaster.

For hand work, a 3" paring knife. I have an inexpensive Japanese one by Al Mar. A lot of chefs like the $5 Forschners.

I cut a lot of bread, so my 270mm Mac bread knife is a godsend. The gyuto does fine on soft bread, but if there's a hard or brittle crust, I grab the mac.

Meat slicing: a 270mm kikuichi carbon steel sujihiki (basically the japanese version of a western slicing knife). This is cool, but I'd survive without it.

Boning/utility: a 6: Forschner with wood handle. Cheap, perfect. For sandwiches, trimming meat, attacking packages. Soft steel, but easy to whack back into shape.

And! I recently got a $10 cleaver from chinatown. Literally $9.95. Medium weight. I got it because even my chef's knife turned out to be no match for the neck bones of an 18 lb turkey. I thought it would be nice to have a heavy, cheap blade for any food that I really need to get medieval on.

Edited by paulraphael, 20 January 2010 - 11:33 AM.

[Blether]

After the chef's, the small (6") chef's. It works just right on the narrow chopping board in the space between the drying rack and the edge of the kitchen unit, for small work.

Next would be the 6" heel-less kitchen knife. Opens bags & packs, slices cheese, pares, handles any in-hand cutting. Or the Thai-market pocket knife that I keep grabbing off the table to poke a whole in the warp for something I'm going to microwave - the one I bought the year that airport security on the way there actually found my sailor's knife in my luggage.

I'm with David Goldfarb on a filleting knife - nothing takes ribs off fillets or takes fillets off the fish like my thin, flexible-bladed fish filleting knife. I've got it set at 12.5 degrees per side... (my chef's knife gets to cut through the ribs for anything bigger than a few ounces).

Butcher knife for cubing large amounts of meat for sausage, stew or braise (this too has a finer edge than the chef's). I don't actually butcher whole animals or primal cuts (can barely buy bone-in red meat) so I don't feel I really take advantage of the unusual tip shape.

I have a loooong carving knife that I carve roasts with, finished with a rough stone to help it through crispy crusts, and my cleaver only seems to get an outing for cooked birds, or breaking up fish carcasses for stock (I buy chicken carcasses already split up).

[Two fingers of Scotch]

Nothing use to beat my blue handle boner knife . It’s just the right size to use every day, from cutting chunks of meat and chicken to slicing up mangos.

Recently I was given a Kyocera Ceramic Santoku Knife (Green, 14cm Blade) and have found it to be an awesome addition to my kitchen. I now find my self continually reaching for it when i'm in the kitchen. I find it great for cutting tomatoes and other salad stuff to peeling the skin off pumpkins. I love it, its almost converted me..

I find that by using magnetic knife rack I can simply choose the best knife for the job at hand. I typically steer clear of my husband’s 2 massive (50cm) butcher knives, although they do come in handy when we’re slicing juicy big rump steaks right off an aged fillet. [/font]

[ScoopKW]

I double checked it. This is the second instance of "serrated" in this thread. I cannot live without a serrated knife for dispatching bread.

Next in line is my nakkiri, followed by my oyster shucking knife. (What can I say? Bivalves are my life. They go with beer.)

[Blether]

... the knives people actually use in Japan (either for Eastern or Western cooking)....

I'm biting my tongue. (Picture shows 100yen-store knife). But if you get a thread going, I'll volunteer at least to go out and shoot some knife porn locally.

[paulraphael]

I will say I think a good gyuto/chef's is the best of all worlds and Western-made santokus would probably be the worst, but that's just my opinion.

I probably agree with that. Those pseudo-santokus (especially the ones with the thick blades and the dimples) are just mind-bogglingly useless.

I like a thin gyuto because it does so many things exceptionally well. There is nothing that a santoku (even a good one) or a nakiri can do that a gyuto can't do at least as well. The reverse isn't true.

A heavy chef's knife (or medium weight cleaver) does do some things that a gyuto can't, so it's a reasonable thing to have around as well. Some of the more commited will use a deba for heavy duty things, but they have to sharpen a portion of the blade to be especially durable in order to get away with this.

[Prawncrackers]

When you say chef's knife to me it means Chinese slicing cleaver, that is my #1 choice 60% of time for regular prep. I only have one at the moment a small Shun cleaver in VG10 steel and it's close to perfect for me because I have smallish hands. I'm able to touch the edge with my middle finger so I can peel stuff like onions and garlic without letting go of the cleaver. The first week I bought it I chipped it very badly on a chicken carcass so I had to reprofile it drastically. It has a very flat belly now which is much better than the factory standard. I thought about getting a small Sugimoto cleaver whilst in Tokyo recently but I talked myself out of it because I love this Shun so much.
For the other 40% of regular prep work I use other these other knives to suit my mood:
*160 mm Carter Funayuki - smaller utility knife for a small chopping board type quick meals
*215mm Takeda Gyuto - my sharpest thinnest chef's knife, will obliterate all veggies in it's path. Is quite high sided so great for scooping. Fantastic cheesecake knife too.
*240mm Itou Gyuto - my "sexiest" knife, special steel, damascus pattern, stag-horn handle. Sharp and beautifully balanced like a conventional western knife but I admit to babying it a little. Hardest to sharpen too.
I also have a small Nenox paring that I bought after taking the photo below. It's always out when one of the main knives is in use. For those paring jobs like peeling shallots in the hand.

Those are my main knives for regular prep stuff. I have these for more specialised work:
*Medium heavy Chinese cleaver mainly for chopping poultry through the bone. Has to be sharp so the bones don't splinter when you present it neatly in the Chinese manner. It can handle pork bones too and is sharp enough to split lobsters cleanly. Just fantastic, the biggest yet cheapest knife in the photo.
*270mm Masamoto Yanagi and Hiromoto Sujihiki. Want something sliced? You got it! The yanagi is just a dream knife for slicing gravlax at xmas.
*180mm Korin/Suisin Deba, for breaking down fish of all sizes.
*Flexible global filleting/boning knife. I mostly use this knife in conjunction with the sujihiki, a heavy chopper and a saw for breaking down pigs. But it is so versatile that I fillet delicate sole with it too.
*Itou paring knife, pretty knife with the same damascus steel as it's big sister. Peculiar shape for a paring but I've found that it's wonderful for fruit. Destones mangos to give two perfect halves without wasting any of the precious flesh.
*Bread knife and various small junk knives I use to pry open shellfish (not pictured)

That's all, it's probably more than your average kitchen but less than your average knife-nut who are a very acquisitive breed indeed. I went through a phase four years ago of buying all these knives but got to the stage where I had a wonderful knife for every application I could conceive of; so I stopped. I don't consider myself a knife-nut otherwise I'd have carried on buying regardless. No really I don't need to see how the cowry-x in the Hattori performs against the special tool steel in the Yoshikane, I've got food to cook!

As you can see I really don't see the point of having one knife to rule them all. Once you appreciate how precision tools can do certain things that general all-rounders can't, it'll change the way you prepare food for the better. It's a joy to use good tools and since knives are fundamental tools for cooking it should mean that the food is better too. Especially if you value how a dish looks. So in answer to which knife I would reach for first: all of them.

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Edited by Prawncrackers, 21 January 2010 - 05:16 AM.

[Dakki]

Prawncrackers - Love your collection. I feel I'm about 90% there.

... a longwinded, highly technical, boring and pointless monologue...

Awww ! You left out the best bit ? We love that stuff around here - knock yourself out. Extra points for pointless. What can you add to the bible ?

Not a whole lot, but I could probably do a short bit on materials from an engineer's viewpoint if someone held a gun to my head. Let me gather my thougts and I'll post something.

[Terrasanct]

I mostly use the three knives mentioned, but I have a small tomato knife that I use for a lot of tasks. It's serrated finely, so it works well for slicing veggies and rolls, like if I'm making a sandwich or salad for myself.

[Edward J]

Not much of a Japanese knife convert. I have the usual assortment of western style knives and they have served me well.

But the oddest knife I have in the bunch is a..............

Black & Decker electric knife.

O.K. know, force shields up while I 'splain.........

Nothing, but nothing cuts a pate en croute better. Any other knife will tear the crust off of the pate, or tear out the aspic, but not the $10.00 p.o.s.

Head cheese, and aspic as well.

Nothing cuts a mousse cake better. Layers of mousse, sponge, and chocolate curls.

Lasagna, still hot in the hotel pan. Anything else would tear the pasta sheets.

[victornet]

Besides the usual pettys and gyutos (I too love my 270mm Tadatsuna, but tend to use my 210mm Ichimonji TKC daily) I reach for a 180mm Deba for cleaver-like tasks, especially breaking down chickens. This contributes to keeping the gyutos in good shape. I look longingly on some of the longer thinner Japanese knives but as I do very little cutting of raw fish I can't justify it.

[mtigges]

One thing no one has mentioned is my habit. If I'm prepping for a larger meal I reach for my gyuto, but if I'm just slicing an onion and some garlic for something smaller like a leftover then I reach for my smaller cutting board. Any time I use it, I have to reach for my santuko. I have two, but in this case, I'm talking about my Shun Sumo santuko. Heavy like a bigger knife, but short enough that it's easier to handle for smaller amounts of prep on my smaller cutting board.

I think that consideration of knife to use is determined somewhat (but not trivially) by the surface your using it against.

[JAZ]

I tend to reach for the smallest possible knife to do the job at hand. Since I usually cook for one, this means that I use a 6-inch chef's knife more often than an 8-inch. My Ken Onion 5-inch utility knife gets a lot of use as well. Finally, I grab a ceramic knife for citrus fruit for cocktails, so I don't have to worry about the acid on metal blades.

[Tom Gengo]

I own a Victorinox Cimetar that is about 14" long which is wonderful for slicing meats. Did some work during the Holidays carving for a Christmas party, the banquet captain stated, "If a knife fight breaks out I am getting right behind you." LOL. I frequently use my 10" Victorinox serrated edge, and also favor for specific purposes my tomato knife, 6" fillet knife and 7" boning knives as needed.

[Tony_Mc]

Hi guys

First post here but touched on something I love, knives.

I was a long time lover of Global as it was the first brand I used that was of a more premium range, I bought my girlfriend a set of Wustof and was really impressed with the action of the knife and also how sharp they stayed in comparison to the Globals.

Recently I came back from Canada with a MAC Damascus 7" Vegetable knife...

so far I am really pleased with it, the cut is clean, accurate and wow do they stay sharp!!!

I am now going to look into another knife in the same style "Damascus", to replace my main chef size knife...

I would love some of that KD kit, but not in this lifetime!!!

Tony :)

[qrn]

I have 25 or so knives on the racks,, (Henkels, Messermeister etc), and there are two that get used every day,
A 12" Dexter serrated bread knife (used exclusivly on bread,, And a 7" Forschner, offset serrated knife that gets used on most everything else , except for heavy duty dicing of onions,vegetables, etc, and breaking down large amounts of meat.where the proper Messermiester chefs knife or boning knife gets used...
Bud

[Tony_Mc]

I just bought a Rockingham 8" 87 layer Damascus chef cut, never heard of this make before but wow, the steel is super hard, a little tough to sharpen but when you get it sharp it is a wicked knife!