33 replies to this topic

[Chris Hennes]

I'm currently in the process of purchasing a whole hog from a local breeder who posted a classified ad. I'm still learning the details, and I think the ways things work vary from farm to farm and from processor to processor. I'd like to try to get the collective eGullet Society wisdom on buying hogs direct so that next time someone tries they aren't quite as in the dark as I was/am!

My breeder raises show pigs, so it's a very small operation, I think partially just a hobby. When I answered his classified ad he asked me if this was my first time purchasing a whole hog, and was happy to help, but since he didn't know what I didn't know, and neither did I, there were some details I missed.

1) The hogs were slaughtered directly on his farm, then moved to the processor's location. The processor was not allowed to put the heads or feet in his cooler with the rest of the pig, so I had to pick them up on location. Is slaughtering on the farm common for these small operators?

2) Post-slaughter the hogs were skinned. I am used to ordering my bellies skin-on so it didn't even occur to me that they would do this. Is this due to the hog being slaughtered on the farm? Is it common to skin the hogs? How do I get a hog with the skin intact?

3) In an ideal world I would have gotten the hog whole but eviscerated, with the spleen, kidneys and liver bagged up separately. This is mostly due to a somewhat irrational distrust that I will not get all the fat, etc. due to over-trimming. The trouble is, I drive a small sedan and this hog weighs, post slaughter, 207 pounds. Not only can I not lift 207 pounds, but I am not sure I can fit the whole thing into my car in one piece! So at first I was going to have the hog "quartered." I don't even know what that means, so I asked to have the hog cut into the largest pieces that it was practical for me to lift. To the processor this translated to: cut the legs off, split the torso in two, and customer will pick up fresh (unfrozen, unpackaged) meat. Well, what I was hoping to do was freeze large segments and just thaw and cut when I had time: I wanted the processor to freeze and package it. So, I modified my request to "just cut it up the way you normally do." I haven't picked it up yet, because this now translates to "pack and freeze." Any suggestions as to how to get what I want next time? If it were a steer I would ask for primals... what is the hog equivalent? Do I even really want this?

4) Any suggestions as to how to find hogs that are raised to be fat and tasty, instead of pretty? In this area it seems that most hogs are raised to be show pigs. What criteria is a judge looking for in a show pig? Is there any translation to taste? Do I need to post my own classified ad next spring, something like "WANTED: Fat tasty pig. None of this lean crap."

Are there other things I don't know that I don't know? I know that my pig was a Duroc/Hampshire cross, that it ate grain, and that it lived in a relatively spacious pen (compared to a hog factory, anyway).

[Magictofu]

I think skinning a pig is not usual but from your experience it is probably worth asking before making the purchase.

As for processing of the carcass, it all depends on what your plans are. If you want to do some of the processing yourself (e.g. you want to make cured ham, sausages, head cheese etc.), then your are better off asking for the major cuts (hams, loins, sides, shoulder) without much further processing. If you prefer to have freezer-ready vacpacked portions, you should have a few options (e.g. loin chops vs. roast) but it is a good idea to find a good butcher who could make informed decisions for you.

I think anyone interested in buying a whole animal should get a chart of the major cuts. There are plenty of images available online if you google it. This is a good place to start: http://www.inspectio...ncv/por1e.shtml

[paulraphael]

I hope you're planning to document this adventure.

[jmolinari]

Just make sure the butcher knows what he's doing. A friend had a hog processed at a butcher who was a hack, and he did a terrible job.

[Chris Hennes]

Just make sure the butcher knows what he's doing. A friend had a hog processed at a butcher who was a hack, and he did a terrible job.

How can you tell a priori whether the butcher will do a good job? I just went with the processor that the farmer uses regularly.

[Chris Hennes]

This morning I drove out to the processor and picked up my pork (it wasn't frozen yet yesterday so the butcher called and said I had to wait to pick it up). I brought along a 54 gallon rubbermaid tub that fits (barely) across the back seat of my (small) sedan: I think she would have let me keep the boxes she brought the pork out in, but since I have the bin, and didn't need any more boxes lying around my house, I figured I'd just load it into there. It's a good thing I brought the big one (I have a smaller tub as well): by the time I had loaded up the whole beast the entire tub was full. I could have packed it more efficiently, but just tossing stuff in there filled it up fast. The pig was 207 pounds "hanging weight" which in this case meant without the skin and the head (and blood). I don't know how much of that hanging weight actually got delivered today, but my car was full . I did not end up with any offal because I forgot about it in the flurry of phone calls. Oh well, next year... it's not like I have a shortage of pork:


It is all neatly packed up and labeled: I had her package the chops two per package, and cut them nice and thick, about 1 1/2 inches. I could have requested just about anything for the chops, I think. The price was fixed per pound for the fresh cuts, it did not matter how you had it divvied up. If you wanted things smoked or stuffed into casings there was an extra fee. Obviously I wanted to do that myself: I didn't even have her grind up the scraps, just toss them in bags and freeze along with all the rest.

Here is a package of the pork chops:

You can see it is stamped with the particular cut (in this case, normal chops, though I have blade chops and loin chops as well), as well as the address of the butcher, a "not for sale" stamp, and my name (on the masking tape). Everything is pretty nicely labeled, which is a relief since I had feared that I might just get a bunch of packages labeled "pork" . Here are the chops unpacked:

You can see the substantial fat cap she left on them. For these first I'll just cook it up as-is, but later on I may trim this off as extra fat for sausage-making.

The bacon had me confused: I'm used to ordering it from Niman Ranch, where is is packed flat. This is the package I got (two of them, of course):

The shape confused me, so I unpacked one of them:

I can't quite tell without unrolling it, but this belly seems shorter than what I get from Niman or Heritage Foods. It has a decent thickness to it, but has unfortunately been skinned, since they ended up skinning the whole hog at slaughter time. This results in a loss of quite a bit of trimmed-off fat, as well as the loss of the skin... too bad, I always make my bacon skin-on. Not this time, apparently.

All told, the cost was pretty reasonable: I paid $0.80/lb for the hog, $50 for the slaughter, and $0.50/lb for the processing (all hanging weight). I figure the whole hog ended up costing around $2/lb in my freezer. My hope is that in the future I can cut the processing cost in half by doing most of it myself: I just ran out of time this week. That will have to wait for next year...

[Hard H2O]

Congratulations. It is exciting looking at a freezer full of meat and imagining the possibilities.

For several years we have purchased a half of a steer. We started with a farm owned by a friend of the brother-in-law. We didn't like a few of the ways he handled things and my cousin had an opening for half of one of his so we go with him now.

We have been getting a half of an Angus Steer from him for about 4 or 5 years now. Sometimes we have split it with someone but most times we just fill up the freezer. He will be slaughtering his in a week and we are taking a quarter and our friends are taking a quarter.

Last year our half cost a total of approximately $720. I will have to look up what it weighed.

He has switched processors twice since we have been buying with him. He switched feeding regimens once.

We pay the cousin for the steer and then we pay the processor seperately.

We talk to the cousin and remind him that we would like ther heart and things like that. We then talk to the processor about cuts, grinds, weight of packages, number of steaks per package, weight per roast, thickness of cuts...

The first year we didn't know how it worked so we just took the processors reccomendations. It has been a learning experience. We have been doing it a few years and we have learned what to ask and how we like things.

Chalk the first year up to a learning experience. Even if everything is not exactly how you want it you still have some nice pig there. Next time you will know.

My uncle raises hogs. He has a long waiting list to get one. We are patiently waiting for a shot at one.

[Hard H2O]

Do you have any county or state fairs that you frequent? I attend the Washington County fair in Lake Elmo, MN and the Minnesota State Fair every year. There are a lot of hogs and beef farms represented. Might be a local one that could answer your need for a fat and tasty hog.

The big boar at the MN State Fair topped out at 1240#. Not the biggest but he was pretty impressive.

There were quite a few labeled and judged in the "Market Hog" division so I know that at least at the MN fair ther were hogs raised for the table and not the show ring.

Edited by Hard H2O, 28 August 2008 - 07:16 AM.

[Chris Hennes]

Yes, the Oklahoma State Fair is a bit later than the MN fair: it doesn't start until Sept. 11. My original plan had been to buy a hog from a local 4-H kid at auction at the fair, but when I saw this ad I figured it would be easier (and I'm sure it was). I'm still going to go to the fair to chat up the swine producers there and try to start in on a source for next years' hog.

[Hard H2O]

Our fair runs from August 21 until September 1st this year. The station I listen to at work broadcasts from the fair. I heard one of the sheep farmers on the radio telling about the 4H kids getting a bit upset the other day. The market sheep that they had been showing were being picked up by the people who bought them.

The market animals that are sold during the fair are collected by the new owners when they change over the barns to the new breeds. So like with the horses they start with the quarter horses and sometime during the fair they leave and they transition to draft horses.

The sheep and poultry barn had a change over the other day so a lot of kids had to hand over the animals they had raised.

[Chris Hennes]

The market animals that are sold during the fair are collected by the new owners when they change over the barns to the new breeds.

Interesting: I was not sure how it worked. Do you know if the market hogs are actually picked up by the new owners, or is it possible to have the folks from the abbatoir come pick them up? I don't have a truck or a trailer, so I'd have a hard time transporting my new pig anywhere. Or do you suppose you can make arrangements with the farmer to pick up the pig at a later date?

[jayt90]

Farm slaughter is considered to be less stressful and yielding better meat.

You didn't discuss or research breeds and feeding options ? Access to outdoors? Next time for sure.

All parts of swine can be sold, so you should make clear you want skin, offal, snout, etc.

You did quite well overall; my Duroc came in at a similar cost, a myriad of details, and too much sausage. But like yours, it was a first time venture w/some experienced farmers and butchers. Processed bacon was good but sausages used commercial spicing mixtures.

Edited by jayt90, 28 August 2008 - 09:39 AM.

[Hard H2O]

The market animals that are sold during the fair are collected by the new owners when they change over the barns to the new breeds.

Interesting: I was not sure how it worked. Do you know if the market hogs are actually picked up by the new owners, or is it possible to have the folks from the abbatoir come pick them up? I don't have a truck or a trailer, so I'd have a hard time transporting my new pig anywhere. Or do you suppose you can make arrangements with the farmer to pick up the pig at a later date?

I have no idea how that end of it works at the fair.

Our beef is taken from the farm to the butcher by my cousin and we pick up the packaged meat much as you did with your hog.

There were a few show bunnies for sale as well as market rabbits. My 4 yo wanted to buy one of the bunnies. I was checking out the market rabbits. I do not think he had the same thing in mind as I did.

[Chris Hennes]

Farm slaughter is considered to be less stressful and yielding better meat.

You didn't discuss or research  breeds and  feeding options ? Access to outdoors? Next time for sure.

All parts of swine can be sold, so you should make clear  you want skin, offal, snout, etc.

You did quite well overall; my Duroc came in at a similar  cost, a myriad of details, and too much sausage. But like yours, it was a first time venture w/some experienced farmers and butchers. Processed bacon was good but sausages  used commercial spicing mixtures.

Farm slaughter would be fine by me if they would not skin the animal, too. Having actually visited the farm in person, I am aware of the hogs' living quarters: plenty of space compared to a hog factory, but perhaps less than the pigs would have liked, and they were still concrete pens, entirely outdoors, with a small covered area for shade. I am also familiar with breeds and feeding options, but since I bought my hog "pre-finished" I didn't have any say in the matter. I'm leaning towards taking out an ad in the area co-op classifieds (where I found this one) early next spring in an attempt to find the perfect pig. Which is not to say I'm not happy with this one, but there are things I would do differently next time.

Regarding that last, I should point out that local regulations may differ: for example, I didn't get the impression that he could not sell me the head, just that the head could not travel in the same cooler with the rest of the hog back to the processor, some kind of local law prevented it. Same with the feet. If you want to buy an animal direct from the farm it would be a good idea to chat with the farmer and processor before the day comes so you are clear on how things will work, exactly. I failed on this point and ended up with a skin-off hog. Live and learn...

[Hard H2O]

Which is not to say I'm not happy with this one, but there are things I would do differently next time.

I failed on this point and ended up with a skin-off hog. Live and learn...

We have learned a bit over the years about this process.

With each change of butcher my cousin did we had to communicate and let them know what we wanted versus what they would or could do.

One of them charged extra for special sized and weighted packages. With one we didn't get any porterhouse.

The current one will handle special requests with no problem. The wrapping and marking is great. The meat has held up very nice to freezing for an extended period. The meat is fabulous to work with. Flavor and texture are incredible. We know what the animal has been eating and what they have not been given. The price is not too bad. I have had a lot of practice cooking with beef.

It is actually fun going out to the farm and seeing an animal that will be on my table in a short while.

Edited by Hard H2O, 28 August 2008 - 10:41 AM.

[jayt90]

My farm contact in central Ontario uses indoor pens w/access to a concrete barnyard. Swine will uproot cracked concrete, and are somewhat destructive in orchards.
I also found it to be a great learning experience , and will do a quarter beef, and some true range chickens from same or similar sources. I'm hopeful for beef cheeks thrown in, as so much of it, plus skirt steaks ends up as hamburger. And I will research using frozen blood for sausages.

Edited by jayt90, 28 August 2008 - 11:14 AM.

[budrichard]

"Farm slaughter is considered to be less stressful and yielding better meat."
Pure baloney!

The standard is that the farmer takes the live animal to the processor. You pay the farmer for the animal and then confirm with the processor how and what you want from the animal. The processor is USDA certified and must have an inspector who inspects the carcass. Without a doubt the actual slaughter is less stressful and more humane than these 'backyard' operations. Go and compare, I have.
The rest are 'back yard' operations. Not that they can't do a good job but you miss the professionalism in cuts and packing as you found, the USDA inspection and the sanitary regulations/inspection (HAACP) regarding meat processors.
I used a 'backyard' processor once for a suckling pig of 15 #'s specially raised for me. The processor skinned the pig! First and last time for me. Next time have the live animal sent to a Meat processor that is not a 'backyard' operation.-Dick

Edited by budrichard, 01 September 2008 - 01:46 PM.

[Chris Hennes]

Bud, do you have any tips for how to find a good processor? How do you get the live hog to them? A full-grown pig isn't going to fit in the backseat of my sedan! Do they pick it up from the farm, or how does that work?

[jayt90]

"Farm slaughter is considered to be less stressful and yielding better meat."
Pure baloney!

The standard is that the farmer takes the live animal to the processor. You pay the farmer for the animal and then confirm with the processor how and what you want from the animal. The processor is USDA certified and must have an inspector who inspects the carcass. Without a doubt the actual slaughter is less stressful and more humane than these 'backyard' operations. Go and compare, I have.
The rest are 'back yard' operations. Not that they can't do a good job but you miss the professionalism in cuts and packing as you found, the USDA inspection and the sanitary regulations/inspection (HAACP) regarding meat processors.
I used a 'backyard' processor once for a suckling pig of 15 #'s specially raised for me. The processor skinned the pig! First and last time for me. Next time have the live animal sent to a Meat processor that is not a 'backyard' operation.-Dick

In my domain a certified inspector must approve the back yard slaughter and the carcass has to be taken to an approved abatoir with veterinary inspection., for processing. Head and feet cannot go in the vehicle, and there is an age limit of 30 months. Processing, including skin if hairless, ìs done as pre-arranged.

I have not used a barnyard slaughter, but I suspect the trade off is a less frightened animal vs. loss of skin, as there is no way to scald the hair.

Edited by jayt90, 02 September 2008 - 11:28 AM.

[budrichard]

Bud, do you have any tips for how to find a good processor? How do you get the live hog to them? A full-grown pig isn't going to fit in the backseat of my sedan! Do they pick it up from the farm, or how does that work?

Yellow Pages under Meat processing. It is the responsibility of the person that raises the animal to get it to the processor. Your only contact should be to pay whoever raised the animal, converse with the processor on how you want the animal and to specify that you want the all the bits and then drive to the processor and pick up and pay for the slaughter charge(usually seperate) and processing and packaging. The animal should be packaged, labeled and frozen but in the case of an animal like a suckling pig, whole and ready to go on your roaster. At least that's the way its done in Wisconsin.-Dick

[Hard H2O]

It is the responsibility of the person that raises the animal to get it to the processor. Your only contact should be to pay whoever raised the animal, converse with the processor on how you want the animal and to specify that you want the all the bits and then drive to the processor and pick up and pay for the slaughter charge(usually seperate) and processing and packaging. The animal should be packaged, labeled and frozen but in the case of an animal like a suckling pig, whole and ready to go on your roaster. At least that's the way its done in Wisconsin.-Dick

That is exactly how it has worked for us.

[Chris Hennes]

So, do you locate a processor first, then call up various farmers and see who will work with that processor? Most of these farmers are located quite a distance from me, and I'd like to use a processor nearby so I don't have to drive as far, but I'm concerned that the farmer will balk at my request that he deliver a single hog an hours' drive away. Does your farmer roll his mileage into your price, or what?

I have a hard time understanding the economics of this arrangement: I paid 80 cents per pound to the farmer, which seems almost absurdly cheap. Does that even cover the costs of feeding the pig over its lifetime?

I'm going to our county fair this weekend - the swine show is at 9am and I'm hoping to find some old-timer who is happy to educate the "new kid in town."

[jayt90]

You can discuss processors with the farmer. He/she will have a favored place, hopefully not too far from you. On slaughter date, a small truckload of animals will be sent, including yours. The processor should know what you are expecting as a finished product, and they will try to accommodate.

$.80 lb. is for the whole pig, head to tail. The farmer can make a profit if the animals gain weight steadily, are disease free. and part of a large group, for economies of scale. But sometimes the market price is not favorable, or there may have been vet bills, or losses in the litter, but the animals have to be sold rather than continuing to be fed at some expense.

You can expect to pay a premium for special hogs, such as heritage breeds, or healthy-diet feeding. Even the factory farm hog operations are moving into this, because there is more profit, and the origin of the meat can be hidden from many consumers.

[murraygrey]

We have a local fellow who has a large gooseneck trailer set up for farm slaughter and processing. He told us the reason he skins the hog instead of leaving it on is the tremendous amount of labor and time involved in removing the hair. The carcass must be dipped repeatedly in a barrel of hot water and the hair scraped off manually. Skinning the hog allows the carcass to cool more quickly, as well.

Having your farm animals slaughtered and processed is a learning process, especially when it comes to communication with the butcher. Possibly next time you can arrange to be on site when the animal is slaughtered. By doing so, you can learn even more about the process and ask questions. I used to be somewhat unhappy over the style of cutting my butcher normally does. But, over the years, I've spent time with him in his shop when he's not been busy, and we've talked about how changes can be made. I like our steaks and chops cut twice as thick as he normally cuts them. I also like more fat left on. Doing so costs me more, as the meat is charged for by the pound, but I like the results when cooking.

I've cultivated a good relationship with my butcher. If and when he retires, I may just go vegetarian! He knows I like to make sausage and called me one day to say he had saved me some really nice hog fat. I stopped by and came home with about 30# of the whitest, nicest hog fat I've seen a awhile.

[Recoil Rob]

Back in the early 1980's a friend threw a pig roast at his family farm in the Catskill Mountains of NY. One small pig and about 30 people. My friend was looking to meet women and a party was a good idea. Quite a good time and the word got around so it became an annual event.

5 years later, at the last one, we had 500 people, built a stage and had 3 bands playing all weekend, and I was in charge of cooking 3 150-200lb pigs. I welded up some spits and such. We got our pigs from a local farmer, the came with skin on, heads on, feet on, fat and kidneys still there. Quite a scene. This was the last one because he met the woman he married and didn't want the hassle any longer.

Some years later I threw a smaller party for about 70 people at a friends house in the city of Yonkers, 1/2 mile from the Bronx border. I ordered my pig from the local Karl Ehmer pork store. It cam in the same way as before, whole, skin on, feet and head intact, immaculately clean, all the leaf lard and kidney fat, everything you could want, about 150#'s

It was wrapped in a large sheet of plastic so we sat it up in the front seat of the Toyota Celica, just like a person, and drove it home.

And my point is, if you want to get the benefits of a "whole hog" you need the skin, feet, head, fat, everything, and cut it yourself. Can be done at home with a little research. And though I haven't tried them recently, Karl Ehmer was very helpful and may still provide a whole carcass from their farm and processing plant in NY.

[Prawncrackers]

And my point is, if you want to get the benefits of a "whole hog" you need the skin, feet, head, fat, everything, and cut it yourself.

I would heartily second this statement. For me the point of buying a whole pig is to butcher it yourself, it's great fun.

[Chris Hennes]

And my point is, if you want to get the benefits of a "whole hog" you need the skin, feet, head, fat, everything, and cut it yourself.

I would heartily second this statement. For me the point of buying a whole pig is to butcher it yourself, it's great fun.

While I agree that is true to get the full benefit of buying a whole hog (if you value the act of cutting it up yourself, of course), my position is a little different: I am simply have no other reasonably-priced source for high-quality pork (the alternative is Niman Ranch). For me, the fact that I get a whole hog is almost incidental: the point is to get high-quality pork. So even without the skin I am getting a good deal here.

[budrichard]

I would not use a processor that allowed non workers to be in the processing area. Strict HAACP requires anyone in the area to be sanitised and wearing the correct garb.
The processor we use has a glassed in processing area. You can watch the whole thing except fpr the kill if you want.-Dick

[budrichard]

And my point is, if you want to get the benefits of a "whole hog" you need the skin, feet, head, fat, everything, and cut it yourself.

I would heartily second this statement. For me the point of buying a whole pig is to butcher it yourself, it's great fun.

Have you actually killed and butchered a whole hog? Not suckling pig but a 200# market hog?-Dick

[Prawncrackers]

And my point is, if you want to get the benefits of a "whole hog" you need the skin, feet, head, fat, everything, and cut it yourself.

I would heartily second this statement. For me the point of buying a whole pig is to butcher it yourself, it's great fun.

Have you actually killed and butchered a whole hog? Not suckling pig but a 200# market hog?-Dick

Butchered, yes. Killed, not yet! My buddy and i have just started butchering our own pork this year. Though i admit we cheat and ask our supplier to halve the pigs for us but we take the rest from there. We've done the equivalent of a whole pig already this year, and in fact we're doing another half this saturday. We tend to get smaller rare-breed pigs like tamworth or berkshire, so a half pig is around 80lb - very manageable in a small domestic kitchen.