29 replies to this topic

[Fat Guy]

As discussed on the supermarket hot dog thread, I'm now a convert to the Black Bear brand of hot dogs sold at ShopRite stores in the Northeast. When I bought my first pack I noticed there were two sizes available: 8-to-a-pound and 4-to-a-pound (this is the old-fashioned language that hot dog people use to describe weights, even though 8-to-a-pound just means 2 oz. or 1/87 pound and 4-to-a-pound just means 4 oz. or 1/4 pound). I purchased the 8-to-a-pound and liked them very much. But I just went back and this time I picked up the 4-to-a-pound version. Apparently the ingredients are identical and the only difference is the size. Yet there's a marked difference in taste, owing I suppose to the ratio of casing to meat and perhaps the way in which a thicker hot dog heats up. In any event, I found the larger hot dog to be less enjoyable than two of the smaller ones would have been. There just wasn't the same crispness (I'm talking griddled) and snappiness with the big ones.

So now I'm wondering, is there an ideal size for a hot dog? I've seen them ranging from 10-to-a-pound (Papaya King size) to 2-to-a-pound (Junior's in Brooklyn). What is best?

[Jason Perlow]

Thickness is the only determining factor here. Length really doesnt enter into it.

This of course, only applies to hot dogs.

[Fat Guy]

Mmm. Good point.

I guess my question is really about the ideal diameter.

Though I do love the end bites most of all.

[Stone]

It's all about girth, baby.

[Jason Perlow]

Also, are we including hot dog variants in here, including the knockwurst or the kielbasa? Cause texturally they are different from a Frankfurter.

[nightscotsman]

It's not the meat, it's the...... bun. Like heyjude (I think) said in another thread - hate it when there's more bun than dog.

But then, I've never been a size queen myself

[jhlurie]

The skinnier the dog the better in my experience. "Crispness" is a very important element in the "taste" of a hot dog. Sometimes a thicker dog can be good, though, if its been split while cooking.

[foodgeek]

Does cooking method come into play? Cuz we are basically talking about texture, and frying a hotdog so its crunchy (as an example) may work better with a thinner or thicker width. Hmmmm?

[TheMan,TheMyth]

I don't think size matters. At least not enough to really have a major effect on the hot dogs overall taste. Yes you will find a huge difference between cocktail franks and regular size hot dogs, but when considering medium sized hot dogs versus larger hot dogs of the same brand I don't place too much importance on size. I think the method of cooking and the brand of hot dog is what it all boils down to.

The Man, The Myth
TapItorScrapIt.com

[bigbear]

I don't think a female has posted yet.

[John]

I like 8 to a lb for cooking at home. But 6's and 5's are good also, just as long as they are not too thick. Usinger's Angus franks came 4 to a lb and were short and fat. A great dog; but I'm glad they came out with a 7 or 8 to a lb. No difference in actual taste; but I enjoy the smaller ones. I like the 5 to a lb Best natural casing dog served at Syd's. Not quite a footlong; but the dog hangs over the end of the bun without being too long. They also sell 2 different 6's. One a normal size; the other is an actual footlong; longer than the 5's sold at Syd's, but real thin. Diameter is important; I don't like anything too thick or thin. Anything between 5 and 8 to a lb.

[Bouland]

Yet there's a marked difference in taste, owing I suppose to the ratio of casing to meat and perhaps the way in which a thicker hot dog heats up.

If these dogs are in natural casings, the thinner ones are probably sheep casings and the thicker ones are hog casings. That being said, I've never done a taste test between different size and source casings.

[Fat Guy]

According to the labels on the two different sizes of Black Bear frankfurters, they're both sheep casing. I'll e-mail Dietz & Watson to confirm the correctness of those labels.

Since I have three pounds of these things to work with, I'm going to try some alternate cooking methods. It may be that even longer, slower cooking than I'm accustomed to is the way to go. I'll also try splitting the dogs to create more surface area.

[mikey]

I never have anything resembling a hot dog bun in the house. I usually split hot dogs, knackwurst, smoked sausages, etc. (4-6/lb) and brown them in some butter, and eat on whatever bread is available.

[John]

I've noticed that when using a griddle; it does take a lot longer to cook a 1/4 lb dog. I found this out by cooking a Schickhaus (1/4 lb natural casing) with a few smaller dogs. Even though they all looked "done" the Schickhaus didn't taste as flavorfull as they did when I got them at Max's (same dog, same size). Next time, I left them on the griddle for a lot longer; till the skin was almost burnt, and it tasted a lot better. This frank is used a lot at the various boardwalks down the shore and is a favorite of a lot of people. It was made by Grote & Weigle of Conn until 1990. They switched manufacturers; and earlier this year switched back to Grote & Weigle. This brand is in the deli section. Harder to find than Thumann's. For a beef and pork dog, I prefer Thumann's, a local butcher dog, and then Schickhaus. But it has to be well done.

[John]

Steven, good luck trying to contact Dietz and Watson by e-mail. They never responded to me. I did get someone on the phone (they have an 800 number on their website) and it took me awhile to get him to speak about their franks. Maybe he thought I was a competitor. You may want to call instead.

[Fat Guy]

Today I tried splitting one of the 1/4 pound Black Bears and cooking it long and slow. It came out much, much better than my previous attempt, but the extended cooking time sacrificed too many juices. Still working on a way to make the big ones taste as good as the small ones, if it's even possible.

[awbrig]

you guys spend WAAAAAY too much time talking about hot dogs...What would Freud say about this...

[Stone]

Today I tried splitting one of the 1/4 pound Black Bears and cooking it long and slow. It came out much, much better than my previous attempt, but the extended cooking time sacrificed too many juices. Still working on a way to make the big ones taste as good as the small ones, if it's even possible.

Perhaps splitting them exposed too much surface area unprotected by casing, thereby allowing too much juice to seep forth. Maybe after splitting, you should sear the exposed meat to lock in the juices.

( )

[John]

I cook hot dogs all different ways; mostly though, I cook them on a griddle. Awhile back, someone from Usinger's said that you should just boil the smaller wieners and either boil or grill the bigger franks (with the tougher hog casing) The reason for this is so that the flavorfull juices do not escape. I replied (via e-mail) that the dogs are more flavorfull grilled. They told me to be more carefull grilling anything with a sheep casing.

I think it would be helpfull to bring a pot of water to a boil. Then turn off the water and place the franks in the pot and cover it. Let simmer (not boil) for about 8-10 minutes and then throw the dogs on the griddle. They will be cooked more evenly from the inside (from simmering) and will get that good grilled taste w/o letting the juices escape. Then if you still like the smaller dogs better; it will probably be because of the amount of meat to casing ratio rather than the dogs not being cooked long enough. As I said, the Schickhaus franks I cooked (1/4 lb with casing) took forever. The hot dog places throw theirs on the griddle and let cook for a few hours on low heat. Father & Son does this and they only use 8 to a lb. Max's also cooks theirs for a long time. I usually don't have the patience; but I have cooked some for a long time. The casing does keep in the juices and gives the casing a nice charred, slightly burnt crunch.

Syd's, which uses a long 5 to a lb frank boils theirs, and then finishes them off on a charcoal grill. Many consider this the best all beef dog in Jersey. Jerry's simmers theirs, and throws them on a steel griddle (actually a small steel box) for only a few minutes. The result is a dirty water dog with extra crunchiness. Also a favorite of many.

Oh, and Freud was a weenie.

[sladeums]

I don't think a female has posted yet.

Again, bigbear may have the underlying issue pinned down - a feminine voice on this thread is necessary.


So, what's important...
diamater?
length?
buns?
is seepage an issue (assuming the seepage is not 100%)?
is dirty water ok?


These are important questions and you cannot just find the answers by casting tea leaves in Tommy's mug...at least not any answers that I want to hear...or see...or tas...

uggggh...uhhhh, I'll quit.

[Nick]

Just make sure you know where your dogs were made, how, and from what critter. Years ago I worked with a livestock dealer/trader and learned which animals were destined to be dogs, boloney (belogna), etc. I rarely eat them now.

[Fat Guy]

John, I tried the simmer-and-griddle method with one of these 1/4 pounders and it was a great success.

I simmered two dogs. One of them I ate straight from the pot, with no further cooking. I really can't imagine why anybody would prefer a boiled hot dog.

The other one, I pulled from the water and put into a cast-iron skillet on medium heat until it crisped up a bit. It was superb. I may actually need to revise my opinion on the diameter issue altogether. But I'll need to perform the experiment with the large and small ones side-by-side to be sure.

The combination of simmering and crisping on the griddle, however, is definitely my new favorite way to cook a hot dog.

It's interesting: A hot dog is theoretically a fully cooked product already. Yet making a hot dog taste its best is about much more than just heating it. It seems to me that heating a hot dog does more than just raise its temperature and -- in the case of dry heat from a griddle, grill, broiler, or whatever -- create a crust. It seems to alter the flavor. Perhaps the spices are affected by the heat. I'm not sure. But now that I look back I think that an insufficiently heated hot dog may have a certain harshness to it that a fully heated one does not. Has anybody else noticed anything like this?

[John]

Interesting. Glad you had good results. I don't understand the science behind these cooking methods; but a lot of places that I go to cook their dogs all different ways. And, as i mentioned before, even they don't know why they do it sometimes. Syd's simmers then charbroils their dog. When I asked the owner why he did it this way rather than just charbroil them, he told me that the previous owners cooked them this way and he didn't want to change a thing when he took over.

I don't prefer boiled dogs either, although a decent beef dog isn't bad in a pinch if that's your only choice. One thing that's nasty is a pork and beef dog boiled. Or steamed. That's what you get at Hot Dog Johnny's. The actual dog served is pretty good; second in my opinion to Thumann's for a pork and beef dog. See the Hot Dog Johnny's thread. But the dog is good grilled, griddled, fried or simmered and grilled. Not boiled. The cooking method makes all the difference. I would never have a Thumann's boiled. These German style dogs are bland when boiled and beef dogs only a little better. You know the difference between a boiled Sabrett at a pushcart and a grilled Sabrett at Gray's Papaya.

What's interesting is that the people at Usinger's (Wisconsin) serve their dogs boiled in the employee cafeteria and actually reccomend this way of cooking when you buy from them. Ditto for Chicago and Vienna Beef. Their reasoning is like you said. The product is already cooked; they just need to be heated. But we know that certain cooking methods produce different tastes.

I've simmered and then grilled (on a griddle and charcoal grill) and one other benefit is that it saves a little time. Plus it makes sense that the dogs would cook more evenly. I've also simmered the dogs and put them in a frying pan for a minute or 2. It is like a boiled dog, but with more flavor and snap. Jerry's and George's (original owners of these places were brothers) in Elizabeth cook their dogs this way. Both are very popular. Many times if I'm just hanging out watching tv and having some beer; I'll just throw some dogs on the griddle and cook them for awhile. The casing usually keeps in the juices and prevents the dog from getting dried out.

If, you're in Jersey, you gotta try Syd's (simmered and charbroiled). I've gotten these dogs (long 5 to a lb) from Best's and cooked them this way and they taste identical to Syd's. And with a big savings. Syd's is great (one of my top 5 or so dogs) but they charge $3.00 a dog. But yet they are always crowded. They also make a terrific reuben.

[John]

Then there is deep frying, which is a whole other issue.

[Chefrat]

Do corndogs count?

[Fat Guy]

I just tried microwave followed by griddle. Excellent results similar to or better than pre-cooking in water.

[John]

How long did you microwave? Did you wrap the dog in a napkin? I'm assuming this was a Black Bear. Have you tasted it side by side with another brand?

[Fat Guy]

This was a single 1/4-pound Black Bear microwaved for one minute, but the thing with microwave ovens is that times don't translate well from one oven to another. It is, however, amazing how quickly a hot dog cooks in the microwave. I figured two minutes, and I completely ruined a hot dog. I had to throw it out (translation, feed pieces of it to the dog throughout the day) because it had split open in several places and was irreperably singed. One minute was ideal, though -- got it up to a nice hot internal temperature without adversely affecting the casing. I should have used a paper towel when I left it in for two minutes, because it splattered juices over the microwave's interior. But at one minute no towel was necessary.

I haven't done any side-by-side tasting yet. I wouldn't do that without you, John.

[Double 0]

Anybody seen Herew National all natural casing hot dogs around any more. I grew up with these but haven't seen them since they moved out of New York. As far as boiled dogs go, I think only all beef natural casing knockwurst can stand up to the boiling water. They seem to not get all watery like regular dogs


Forget my question I just saw the answer on the supermarket hotdog thread,