7 replies to this topic

[anina marcus]

Does anybody know wether andy mariani of the stone fruit orchard and mark mariani of the commercial dried fruit business had a feud in the family and broke off from owning orchards together? anina

[samgiovese]

I have known the Mariani (dried fruit) family for 50 years. Mark and Andy are not brothers, and I don't think they are even related. Mark comes from the Paul A. Mariani family of Cupertino. He has 4 brothers (Paul III, John, David and Rick), and 2 sisters (Linda and a younger sister whose name escapes me).

Andy could be a cousin, but his line, Joseph Mariani and descendants, are unknown to me.

Hope this helps.

[Fat Guy]

Any relation to the food writer John Mariani?

[samgiovese]

Any relation to the food writer John Mariani?

No.

[russ parsons]

I believe that Andy and Mark Mariani are shirt-tale cousins.

[docsconz]

I believe that Andy and Mark Mariani are shirt-tale cousins.

Que? I am not familiar with the term.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I believe that Andy and Mark Mariani are shirt-tale cousins.

Que? I am not familiar with the term.

Definition here.

It’s usually said to refer to somebody who is a relative by marriage or is only distantly related, such as a fourth cousin, or is a family friend with honorary status as a relative. It’s fairly common in the USA and has been since the 1950s or thereabouts.

Getting to the bottom of it, so to speak, may be a task beyond my abilities from this side of the Atlantic Ocean. One dictionary of American slang suggests it was originally southern and mid-western US dialect. The Dictionary of American Regional English (DARE) has examples from 1927 onwards, such as shirt-tail kin and shirt tail cousin, as well as your form.

Several of these sound dismissive, with a suggestion of poverty and rural, even backwoods, character. Early DARE examples suggest that they were indeed often derogatory. One from 1945 says, “Sometimes with the implication that these are not the relatives of which one is proudest”. Shirt-tail here seems in particular to be linked with poverty. There are examples much earlier of shirt-tail boy, for a young person. A 1922 book about the Appalachians remarks, “It still is common in many districts of the mountain country for small boys to go about through the summer in a single abbreviated garment and that they are called ‘shirt-tail boys’.”

[docsconz]

Thank you, Carolyn! I take it that there is no feud then if that definition applies.