202 replies to this topic

[rockefeller666]

Well, I finished dining at Le Bernardin tonight. We had the $79 prix fixe menu. We had a nice white burgundy to drink, which was very good. The amuse bouche (sp?) consisted of a sauteed shrimp in this wonderful asian sauce. Absolutely terrific. No question.

I started with a progressive tastings of fluke. They were raw pieces of fluke, arranged in marinades consisting of lemony-type stuff to an asian spiced full bodied dressing. It was wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.

I then had the halibut with an asparagus puree, covered in a black truffle/lentil sauce. It was great. Really good food. No question, the quality was outstanding. For dessert, I had the pinapple surrounding a pana cotta mount, topped with a crisp shell, some raspberry sorbet and a raspberry sauce. It too was excellent. We finished with some petit fours (sp?), which were quite good.

Overall, the quality of the food is outstanding. I will say, it's 11:37pm, I just finished inner around 10:40pm, and I'm hungry. I really am hungry. Not just un-stuffed, but I'm actually hungry. If you threw a slice in front of me now, I'd wolf it down. The quantity of food was just so small. I was reading NYCitysearch, and there was this guy who said he bought pizza after a meal there. I thought he was just one bitter dude. But he's right. He's 100% right. I'm really hungry. To drop $150/person for dinner and be hungry is just morally egregious. I could have eaten at Curry in a Hurry for $8 and be more full with a delicious meal.

I will say that the quality of stuff at Le Bernardin was quite high. But I personally think Daniel is better. I also left Daniel stuffed beyond belief. There was so much food, I could barely walk afterwards. And the food was so good, that I wanted to keep eating it. Le Bernardin, a NYTimes 4-star restaurant, is simply not worth the money. It is the proverbial french place which overcharges for very little food. The food was very good--not as good as Daniel--but just totally not enough. Daniel is only $6 more, so if you're going to drop that kind of money, go to Daniel.

I remember eating at a Michelin 3-star restaurant in France (3 stars is the highest michelin rating), and I dropped $120/person with wine. I was so stuffed that I had to run the next day and barely eat anything just to burn off the calories. Daniel is similar. Le Bernardin is simply not worth the money. $8 for curry in a hurry or $80 for Le Bernardin; the choice is clear, curry in a hurry is almost as tasty, more filling, and better value.

[macrosan]

Hey Rocky, thanks for the excellent review. I've had Le Bernardin on my "must go" list for a while, and you've confirmed that I absolutely must go.

If there's one thing I hate it's that "stuffed" feeling at the end of a meal. As a Brit who has spent a lot of time in the USA, I still get embarrassed by the sheer size of portions in America. I do hate to leave good food, because I dislike waste and I think it's like an insult to the chef. So when I get presented with these portions suitable for a 350lb footballer, I find that my enjoyment level instantly drops. It's just too daunting.

So I'm thrilled to hear that there is a restaurant that serves superb quality food in portion sizes to match my appetite.

[mogsob]

It's not only brits who hate the stuffed feeling.  In fact, I think the proverbial french restaurant exists solely to fatten you up like Hansel for the oven.

Having been to Le Bernardin many times, I can say that I have never left hungry.  Never, not once.  That said, I can rarely finish three courses at any restaurant, so I applaud smaller portions.

Macrosan, do go to Le Bernardin -- it is among NY's best, if not the best.

[rockefeller666]

Thanks for your replies.  They add good perspective on the Le Bernardin experience.  

While I don't dispute the quality of food at all--Le Bernardin truly is an outstanding restaurant--I wish they gave more.  I too don't like to eat until I'm stuffed; it usually happens because the food is so good, I can't help myself.  But at the same time, I don't like to walk away from a table hungry, especially after dropping $150.  It's just not right.  And if you read the reviews on NYCitysearch, I'm not the only person who left the restaurant hungry.  I avoided eating much bread, since I was anticipating better dishes.  I am a man, not huge (170lbs), but I eat a lot for my weight.  So while I'm not a sumo wrestler, I'm an average sized man who left this restaurant hungry.  

I will say that quantity aside, Daniel has the edge in quality.  The halibut I had was basically a truffle/butter-based sauce with asparagus puree which was very flavorful, but not particularly interesting.  At Daniel, I had some fish with truffles that just blew me away.  The desserts at Le Bernardin was quite tasty, high quality without a doubt.  But the desserts at Daniel were amazing.  So all in all, I would say just spend the money at Daniel.

[=Mark]

I've always been amused by the philosophy of cooking at Le Bernardin.  As I recall it was something to the effect that they believe in letting the delicate flavor of fresh seafood come through without overpowering the dish with overly assertive sauces spices or preparation.  Well fine, you serve me a simple seafood dish without a lot of distracting sauces or seasoning, then charge me $40 for the plate?

Sorry, but when I am dropping $150 on a meal I expect you guys to be back in that kitchen breaking a sweat and rattling those pots and pans.

Also I found the austere, cavernous cafeteria-esque dining room to be a put-off too.

[mamster]

It's not only brits who hate the stuffed feeling.  In fact, I think the proverbial french restaurant exists solely to fatten you up like Hansel for the oven.

The Franco-American restaurant, maybe.  The few meals I've eaten in France were remarkable for their perfect portion size;  I felt comfortably full after every meal in Paris except the one that followed a cup of that godawful Angelina hot chocolate.

I've also found this true at La Côte Basque.  At most restaurants I routinely leave a third of the plate uneaten.  Obviously, one portion size does not fit all, and it doesn't seem fair for a restaurant to let you leave hungry.  Any clever solutions, folks?

[ajay]

Mamster,

I'm wondering if we were in the same France.  Even the ethnic restaurants where I had "menus," usually the cheapest way to go left me quite full.  DOn't get me wrong, I don't mind this feeling at all.  Moreover, I have a pretty large appetite for a small (5'10", 160lbs) guy, and yet, I couldn't finish all of the food offered as part of the "menu l'astrance" at the amazing L'Astrance Restaurant.

Markstevens,

I think you'll find that claims of minimalism at the level of Le Bernardin still force the kitchen to work quite hard and the pots and pans will be a baggin'.  I've only had one prixe fixe lunch there.  But, I can tell you the cooking was intricate, and the flavors complex.  Le Bernardin is not a place that simply steams the freshest fish; they work their food over, but their influence is subtle.

Since I hate food wastage, I wish there were a good solution to the portion problem: I funtion on the goldfish principle--as long as food is put before me, I continue to eat it. But, I see now that, it's not just women who prefer smaller portions.  I usually emphasize my hunger to the waitstaff, but I don't think this practice yields a different sized portion.  I've often been tempted to ask for seconds--they've bee offered and gratefully accepted at a few places, but usually abstain so as to not disrupt the pacing/tempo of the meal.  I often request extra petite fours and I eat a lot of bread if I feel the portions are small.  These are, I admit, imperfect solutions, but I'm not sure what else to do.

[mamster]

Well, I'm sure there are as many Frances as there are travelers.  We ate mostly in bistros and went unstuffed.

At La Régalade, I got seconds on soup.  There was also an apparently unlimited amount of pork terrine to be had.  I guess these things are in the "eat more bread" category.

[Wilfrid]

A dinner party last night at Le Bernardin composed of:

Yvonne and G. Johnson
Mr and Mrs Tommy
Myself and Beloved

As you can imagine, a quiet, solemn, even funereal atmosphere prevailed. In fact, I thought the staff did quite well with us considering they couldn't get a word in all night.

We took the $84 prix fixe which offered three courses and dessert or cheese. The first courses listed were generally light, cold fish dishes (several came with caviar and hefty supplements), and the following courses were progessively more substantial. Overall I thought all the dishes I tasted were good, with one or two being exceptional. It's a lovely room, lighter than I remembered it from several years ago (have they brightened the decor?), the seats were comfortable, and our party was the only source of noise annoyance.

Chilled geoduck - the first time I've had it, I think, and since it was served shredded, I would never have guessed it was anything but regular clam. Nothing wrong with it, but I didn't find it any more interesting than regular clam, which fortunately I like. Came with toast studded with seaweed.

Brandade, served just warm. I could have happily eaten a larger portion, and I would rather have had the toast with this dish. But it was excellent - still slightly chunky, with biteable pieces of cod, which is how I like it. I sampled the Beloved's seared tuna, which had a strikingly deep and full tuna flavor.

Next was hearty, well-flavored slices of monkfish served over a cabbage leaf stuffed with shredd oxtail, surrounded by finely pureed potatoes and an oxtail sauce. Good-looking dish, and I noticed several unrepentant carnivores in the party ordered it. Halfway through, the Beloved snatched it and gave me the rest of her sauteed shrimp. These looked much more like langoustines than shrimp, and were quite outstanding - hard to describe how perfectly cooked they were. I am forgetting what they were dressed with, but they came with a side of spicy, saffron rice.

A $15 supplement bought a surprisingly hearty helping from the cheese trolley. The selection was mainly French and solid rather than imaginative - not unlike the trolley at ADNY. I liked the ripe Montbriac. I got a taste of an excellent chevre from Mrs T.

While there are some astronomically priced bottles on the list, I was very surprised at how reasonable some of the prices were. We started with a N.V. Louis Roederer at $70 (surely less than a 100% mark up). We moved on to a decent Pouilly Fuisse (Les Poyeaux, I think, 1998). I was really pleased with the red, a light, cool Saumur Champigny for around $65. Good for red wine drinkers who are eating fish. Can't remember the year.

Port, of course. Of course.

Negative point: nasty little plastic menus with the days dishes secured by an elastic band. Like a hotel coffee shop. I was shocked. And I thought the menu used to be in French. Did we get a cheap tourist translation?

[tommy]

i think the amuse was one of the most fascinating shrimp dishes i've ever had. it was one shrimp, served with a bit of what i assume was a reduction of balsamic vinegar. the texture of the shrimp was like nothing i've ever had. absolutely wonderful. i could have had 6 of them, and called it a day.

i was shocked at how early the place cleared out. we were the *only* people left in the place at 11.15 or whatever it was. the waitstaff no doubt sighed a collective groan of relief as the last one of us stumbled out of the revolving door.

the place was totally less stuffy than i had imagined. although, as wilfrid suggested, the waitstaff really didn't have the chance to give any attitude, as we were basically off and running from the second we got in...and we didn't shut up until after we left.

i wore a blind melon t-shirt, and wilfrid had a vintage sex pistols concert jersey. it was faded, and honestly, a bit embarrassing.

[yvonne johnson]

A stellar meal, I thought. And as tommy and Wilfrid say, the decoration, atmosphere and service much less stuffy (not too attentive. I think they scraped the table cloth only once with the razor clam shell-like instrument--about right, ) than they were a few years back. The waiters seemed to be smiling (then again that might have been a pained expression having to deal with us lot).

I agree the amuse--silky, sweet shrimp with ginger and soy butter--was fantastic. As were the sourdough rolls and butter.

The prix fixe menu is arranged in three sections and you choose one dish from each:
1. ALMOST RAW, 2. BARELY TOUCHED, and 3. LIGHTLY COOKED which doesn't make a lot of sense (bouillabaisse is barely touched?).

1. I went for the geoduck ("thinly sliced geoduck clam marinated with wasabi-lime dressing") which I'd never had before. Somewhat chewy and it had a lovely sea-side smell (in the best possible way).

2. Next I had a fantastic bouillabaisse ("aioli crabcake melting in a rich saffron lobster broth; poached shrimp and croutons"). What a lovely orange to red color

3. I also went for the surf and turf ("oven roasted monkfish loin on silky mashed potatoes and braised oxtail-stuffed cabbage in a rich red wine reduction""). The fish, which has a meaty texture in the first place, went terrifically well with the oxtail. Husband liked his Gamberoni shrimp ("broiled...flanmbeed in lemon Bacardi rum; basil, garlic and parsely") but found the accompanying "saffron basmati rice" too fishy. I thought it was wonderous, and I polished off the entire bowl, and maybe someone else's as well.

4. For once, I didn't feel like a cheese course and instead went for the cherries. Cherries that were deep red, lightly poached, I think, and very cherry tasting--what more can one ask for?

The menu covers as Wilfrid noted are a little disconcerting. I never went to Butlins holiday camp, but the pictures of the sea and sunsets brought to mind a cafeteria at a cheap resort. But that's the only negative thing I can come up with.

I hope g. will add his thoughts as his opinion is that Le B was better 10 years ago. Le Bernardin gets top marks from me which it did not before.

[Wilfrid]

"Gamberoni shrimp ("broiled...flanmbeed in lemon Bacardi rum; basil, garlic and parsely" - thanks for describing that correctly. It was quite wonderful. And you did indeed get into more than one bowl of rice.

I wonder if it made a nice change for the waiters to deal with a table of people having fun?

[g.johnson]

I hope g. will add his thoughts as his opinion is that Le B was better 10 years ago.

I thought Le B was better 10 years ago.

(It's the little things that make a marriage work.)

[Varmint]

C'mon, the 2 most important words for me in my marriage are "Yes, dear."

[tommy]

I sampled the Beloved's seared tuna, which had a strikingly deep and full tuna flavor.

i want to comment on this as well. it struck me as the deepest darkest tuna i'd ever "taken in". really interesting.

also interesting was the bread "service" for some of the dishes. toast points and peices of bread were presented on a small plate. no one knew whether they were to take one, take the dish, throw the dish, wipe their fingers on the bread. it was all quite bizarre.

[Fat Guy]

There was a renovation a year or so ago, to answer the question asked way back when.

Most of the work was done upstairs, but I recall reading that the dining room got a once-over as well:

http://www.le-bernar...lons/index.html

I still think it's hotel-lobby impersonal and generic, though.

[tommy]

looking at the pics on the site fat guy just posted, my only question is: "was i there last night"?

[yvonne johnson]

I was thinking the same, tommy. Here's where we were http://www.le-bernardin.com/

[Bux]

Shaw's photograph appears to be one of the private rooms on another level, at least according to the test on that web page.

also interesting was the bread "service" for some of the dishes. toast points and peices of bread were presented on a small plate. no one knew whether they were to take one, take the dish, throw the dish, wipe their fingers on the bread. it was all quite bizarre.

Could you clarify? I'm assuming sevral of those options were not ones you thought were legitimate just from previous restaurant experience. Was it more than just wondering which breads were supposed to go with which dishes?

[tommy]

Could you clarify? I'm assuming sevral of those options were not ones you thought were legitimate just from previous restaurant experience. Was it more than just wondering which breads were supposed to go with which dishes?

i can't clarify more because it was confusing to begin with. the presentation of small pieces of bread proved to be baffling. that's what i took away from it. sorry i can't be more clear.

[Wilfrid]

Tommy's right. A waiter presented a small plate with teeny bits of bread on it from my right, and I automatically tried to take the plate from him. He meant me to take one of the little pieces of seaweed toast. It wasn't clear. They should have doled them out with tongs. And I don't know why I got toast to accompany geoduck, not brandade. Not a big deal, though.

[jaybee]

I am glad to read that your experiences were as good as the one we had a few months ago. leB deserves to be put back on the list of favored places, IMO.

[robert brown]

How crowded was the place? Were any tables turned? (Not on you, of course).

[Wilfrid]

I was sitting with my back to the room, which meant getting quite a sore neck while trying to peek at the other diners, some of whom were quite attractive. So I didn't follow what was going on in any detail. I didn't have the impression it was ever completely full.

[foodboy]

I've been to Le Bernardin once and had the dinner tasting menu (the more expensive one). It was an excellent meal, but there are two fish dishes I've had at Gramercy Tavern that are better than anything I had at Le Bernardin. I wonder what it would be like if Tom Colicchio opened a seafood restaurant.

[Stone]

Shaw -- Did Millson ever take you to LeB? I went once with him and a team -- we called ahead to see if they would let me in with jeans and a sport coat -- they would. Millson said, "make sure they know how ugly you are" (I had just shaved my goatee, to his dismay), and he still insisted that I wait outside until he reached the table (upstairs in the private room). He was, of course, wonderfully loose with the money, and the meal was exellent. I can't remember it though because, as usual, I drank too much.

I always thought that lunch at LeB was the best part of working for a large NY law firm. It's where I first had and learned to love skate. Unfortunately, I can't afford to pay for mayself.

[chopjwu12]

Ok here we go. Veronica and i were joined by a third party at a dinner at le bernardin last night and here is how our experience was.

We had early reservations at 5:45 because veronica had to get up early for work. the three of us walked in and were greeted very nicely. I was impressed by the room. I thought the tables were well spaced and in our opinion the room was business like but very comfortable. We were a bit intimidated at first but i think the room helped us relax a bit. So we recieved our menu along with the wine list and after a caonversation between the three of us we all decided taht we wanted to go big and get the chefs tasting menu. We are all a fan of tasting menus for our first visits at restaurants.

It all statrted kind of wierdbecause i think they jumped the gun a bit or maybe thats how they do it there but we were presented with an amuse while still looking at our menus. They didn't know what we were gettign yet but our food was allready on the table. i thought that was kind of strange. But any way we ordered and dug into a very nicely presented curry crab napolian. Im not sure what the tuille part of the dish was made of but it was very crispy and a great texture to go along with the well made crab sallad. A early but very good start to our meal.

On a side note note we got wine pairing with each course but i dont remember them all that well. I forgot my notebook.

Our second amuse was fried calamari with a remoulade sauce. I thought it kind of strange taht we were at le bernardin and eating fried calamari. But i have no complaints because it was cooked perfectly and the remoulade was one of the better ones that i have ever tasted. A very good amuse

Our next course was the tuna and hamachi with a miso and yuzu vinaigrette. This was probably my favorite course of the evening. The yellow fin and yellow tail were great served in a patchwork presentation. the miso vinaigrette was excellent. And it had chives sprinkled all over it. it was also served with white toast. Everyone thought this dish was great.

Our next course was the croque monsieur. This was veronicas favorite course and my second. Basically its a mini sandwich made from brioche toast, iranian sevruga i beleive, Scotish smaoked salmon, and gruyere cheese. I am not a salmon fan and i dont particulary like smoked salmom but i loved this dish. It was presented very simply and at the top of the plate were one small square of each cucumber, tomato, and apple. With a little baby watercress. Like i said the dish was very very good and everyone liked it.

Our next course was shrimp ravioli. I had some dissapointments with this dish. The dish was argentinean shrimp with black trumpets and a foie and truffle sauce. Veronica felt the shrimp were a little over and tough. I didnt really disagree but i didnt mind it all that much. We both agreed that the sauce that was served needed help and alot of it. basically there shooting for a rossini(sp) sauce which is a demi based sauce thats mounted with foie butter and truffles. Well i dont expect fresh truffles to be used in this sauce because for the amount of truffles that were on my plate the bill would have been even higher. I do expect to taste the foie and truffle in my sauce none of which we did. The truffles were canned wich again i expect but do to the fact that most canned truffles taste like shit i would expect truffle oile to be mounted in there for that flavor boost. The foie flavor was totally nonexistent. A simple foie butter can be made and used to finish the sauce with the truffle oil and the dish would have been taken up a whole other level. I used to make this same sauce in washington for a salmon dish and it was alot better. So i was fairly dissapointed by this dish. It wasn't a huge bomb but it was ok. It was my least favorite course.

Our next course was a steamed halibut in an orange ginger dashi broth. It had maitake and oyster mushrooms on top. It was all drizzled with a soy sherry vinaigrette. The broth had a smokey quality to it and i later found out it was also made with smoked tuna. The dashi broth was very very good and very well made. I did feel however that the halibut was a little overcooked and dry. I guess they try to make up for it with the dashi broth but a dry fish is a dry fish no mater what. So the fish was ok but the dashi broth was excellent.

Our next course was the surf and turf. Seared monkfish and braised oxtail stuffed in cabbage and served with a silky mashed potato. This dish was great. The monkfish was cooked perfectly and the cabbage was tender enough and the oxtail was flavorfull. the mashed were very good and the redwine sauce was great. I did get a bone in my oxtail though. But i understand how easy taht can happen so easily forgiven.

There was no predessert which i thought was kind of wierd. Most places give one and i was dissapointed i didn't get one. MAybe they dont do it or maybe they forgot. Anybody know?

The dessert was a yuzu lemon tart and ginger parfait topped with thin caramel tuile. I thought it was wierd to see yuzu on the menu again this time as a main ingredient not as a side peice. I wouldn't expect an ingredient to repeat but its ok if it does i just thought it wouldn't. This dessert had alot of potential to me but fell short when i tasted it. If yuzu is the main ingredient as advertised then that waht i want to taste and the other flavors should be supporting actors. the ginger smacked you in the face with its pungentness and spicyness. I wouldn't say it was to much for a dessert advertised for its ginger but as a yuzu dessert it fell short. The sauce tasted like yuzu and that helped but i wanted to taste it more in the dessert. so although good a bit dissapointing on that aspect. We also recieved a very good chocolate tart. Very well made rich but not heavy. It was great.

On a couple of side notes:
Service was very good in the beggining and kind of slacked of towards the end. I think they may have been a little busier then they expected so our service kind of suffered. Take for instance our last two wine courses were kind of delayed. Our last one especially we didn't get our wine untill have our dessert was eaten. The glasses should have been put down before we even got the desserts. The other thing was we werent offered cheese and we had the chefs tastign menu. I was shocked and i would have gotten cheese. But i wasn't about to ask for it. If you dont want my money so be it. I dont want to put the service down to much though. Besides for that it was excellent some of the best service ive ever had. So please dont get the wrong idea.

Another thing was chef eric game into the dining room from the kicthen. We were the only table in house and i was sure he would come say hi since we were the only table and we were all cooks. I would have expected that but he didn't. I was a little surprised but whatever you cant expect everythign. But if i were a chef and i saw a only table in the dining room i would hae taken two minutes to say hi.

My last thing i will say is about the price. Your paying 130 bucks for the chefs tasting menu. I inderstand its le bernarden and your payign for that. I did think it was a bit over priced. The items on the menu aren't expensive. Shrimp, tuna. halibut, monk fish, oxtail aren't breakign anyones bank thats for sure. So for the food you get i dont think the chefs tasting is worth it. I understand your paying for service and labor and all that but i still dont think its a 130 dollar menu. But maybe thats just me.

All and all i would liek to finish up on a posative note. My overall experience was very good. It had some flaws and maybe i dwell on them to much. But hey thats me. I really did enjoy me experience there and wouldn't hesitate to go back as soon as my wallet comes back to life. I wouldn't do the tasting menu again i think it would eb more of an a la carte place for my ext experince. I wouldn't give it 4 stars as a reviewer i would have given it 3 but then again i am just a simple cook.

[macrosan]

That's a terrific review, full of detail, and with sufficient comment to make it interesting and thought-provoking while maintaining what certainly sounds like a reasonable and fair position.

My only visit to Le Bernardin was very enjoyable. I found all the food excellent, and I loved the room. I must say I found the service a bit on the starchy side for my own preference, but very correct. I'l be interested to hear others' views on your notes about those few service failures.

I agree with your assessment of the price. I didn't have the tasting menu, but I remember thinking the place was expensive -- not unacceptably, but my overall reaction was not that I had got really good value.

Thanks again for that review, Chop. Good material there

[Suzanne F]

Yes, thanks for a great review. I haven't been there is a few years, so it's nice to know what they're up to. Do you happen to know if the monkfish was cooked on slate?

Just a note: I did my externship there in 1996, and to this day I have trouble eating anybody else's fried calamari. I must have cleaned and diced thousands of those guys. The key is simple freshness: calamari comes in in the morning, gets cleaned; at night, a dip in milk, a dip in flour, into the clean fryer, and out onto the plate. Nothing fancy, just fresh.

[chopjwu12]

You know what they say fresh is best! People try to get to crazy with things like calamari instead of letting the ingredient be itself sometimes. Dont get me wrong of love both craziness and simplicity. But sometimes its good to let an ingredient be itself. As far as the monkfish is concerned it seemed to me that the monkfish was seared in pan but i could be wrong. Nothing was mentioned about it and i have never experieneced a fish being seared on slate to be able to tell the difference. A little more detail on the slate thing would be apreciated.

Suzanne, macrosan thanks for the compliments it sound slike i came across the way i wanted to in this post.